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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ectreeskier11 View Post
    your posts continue to confound me
    Made sense to me. Re-read the blurb on the UAC site regarding surface hoar (dictionary of terms), I think you may be confusing the fact that they stated surface hoar accounts for most accidents in the PNW with where/how/why it forms.

  2. #152
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    mostly was just the NH=maritime statement. i mean sure, it's close to the ocean but... maritime climate regarding snow safety is pretty damn opposite of the NH climate

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Made sense to me. Re-read the blurb on the UAC site regarding surface hoar (dictionary of terms), I think you may be confusing the fact that they stated surface hoar accounts for most accidents in the PNW with where/how/why it forms.
    Me too. Skiing the loud "hoar" is fun as hell.

  4. #154
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    huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ectreeskier11 View Post
    mostly was just the NH=maritime statement. i mean sure, it's close to the ocean but... maritime climate regarding snow safety is pretty damn opposite of the NH climate
    nope.

    rog

  5. #155
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    Ok, just to clear things up

    The most common types of avalanche instability-

    Martime Snowpack- new snow instability
    Continental Snowpack- persistent weak layer(suface/hoar frost, facets etc.)

    The Wasatch is usually somewhere in the middle of these two depending on the year.

    Lest you continue to spread your ignorance, take an avalanche class, before you get yourself or someone else killed in the backcountry.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMessenger View Post
    Lest you continue to spread your ignorance, take an avalanche class, before you get yourself or someone else killed in the backcountry.
    For the sake of argument, "taking an avalanche class" doesn't necessarily make one any less likely to get waxed in a slide. In many cases, it may actually lead to a false sense of awareness and an increase likelihood of getting waxed.

  7. #157
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    Right, people should just go out with no knowledge or any idea what they are doing. Great idea!

  8. #158
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    couldn't agree more

    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead View Post
    For the sake of argument, "taking an avalanche class" doesn't necessarily make one any less likely to get waxed in a slide. In many cases, it may actually lead to a false sense of awareness and an increase likelihood of getting waxed.
    getting out there often with a trusted conservative snow vet is crucial to learning about snow. learn safe travel techniques, features, traps, keeping slope angles low, and learning to stay out of the way from looming hangfire and flying hippies above you is some important stuff.

    books are good for reading, snow is just as good for reading and better for sliding on. best way to learn snow is to get out and walk in it with yer pole pokin at it and yer eyes open every day if ya can. keep angles low.

    rog

  9. #159
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    Since the wasatch really is a new range for me, I want to pick a spot to dig pits and watch the pack over the coming season. I like the same vicinity/aspect so I can watch it build and morph storm by storm. Here in colorado I would pick a face that is easterly just below treeline, but I wonder about there. True north would be more likely to keep interesting layers, yes?
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze View Post
    trackhead, you already thinking about the pfeiff?

    shera, welcome to the cottonwood canyons.

    to the op: yeah people read the threads and decide where to go but some of that is due to safety concerns (conditions). gotta take the good with the bad. so far the good outweighs the bad, imo.
    Thank you. I'm starting to walk around here and get my legs. Lazy summer but I hope to be pretty strong by the time I get there.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  11. #161
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    One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheRa View Post
    One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?
    UDOT has one published somewhere on the internet.

  13. #163
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    SheRa, I'm sure some mags on here have better ones, but this is a start for you.
    http://www.avalanchemapping.org/IMAGES/litcotweb.pdf

  14. #164
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    Rog vs. ECtreeskier: one I've been waiting for.

    Meltfreeze/windcrust to 11K at 5 pm yesterday. Plus, a lot of this:



    It is worth noting for those of you not concerned with what began as a slim base, the measured total at the Collins stake is down to 22 inches. That is not much snow.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead View Post
    Me too. Skiing the loud "hoar" is fun as hell.
    Yup,...I always thought 'Surface Hoar' was not a problem,...UNTIL,... It becomes
    "DEPTH HOAR"...
    "People ask us to take them skiing, and I'm like, 'REALLY'? I mean if you want to get in an avalanche or just die somehow, then, YEAH, come with US!" - Nathan Wallace

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher3000 View Post

    It is worth noting for those of you not concerned with what began as a slim base, the measured total at the Collins stake is down to 22 inches. That is not much snow.
    looks like we may have dodged a bullet, the vast majority of this snow should melt in the next week or so

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildskizer View Post
    Yup,...I always thought 'Surface Hoar' was not a problem,...UNTIL,... It becomes
    "DEPTH HOAR"...
    I'm certainly not an expert on this stuff, but my understanding is that buried surface hoar is generally referred to as just that - buried surface hoar (or hoar layers). Depth hoar is what forms due to vapor transport processes/temperature gradients in the snowpack....

    (basically if it formed on the surface, it's surface hoar, if it formed inside the snowpack, it's depth hoar)

  18. #168
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    pics from day 2 at alta - did laps off wildcat ridge all day then came down west of rock gully - the pow was heavier but still fantastic






  19. #169
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    slaag you still want those fatypus's? they're haggard but yours if you think you can figure out how to mount them!

  20. #170
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    hell ya! i can mount anything! send them to
    Andrew Hardy
    8185 Oak Creek Dr
    Cottonwood Heights
    ut 84093

    i am living in a garage and don't have mailbox privileges.
    thanks dude. what did you do to your pelvis? will you be here this winter?

  21. #171
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    i don't need to mail them haha i live on foothill just north of 80. i'll let you know next time i'm headed down (ski season should start for me in 2 weeks or so). pelvis was "minor" setback, just a little mtb accident but i'll be good to shred.

  22. #172
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    i can ride my bike over if you like

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaag Master View Post
    i can ride my bike over if you like
    let me know when, i work from home so i'm around a lot. foothill place apts.

  24. #174
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    explore em all

    Quote Originally Posted by SheRa View Post
    Since the wasatch really is a new range for me, I want to pick a spot to dig pits and watch the pack over the coming season. I like the same vicinity/aspect so I can watch it build and morph storm by storm. Here in colorado I would pick a face that is easterly just below treeline, but I wonder about there. True north would be more likely to keep interesting layers, yes?
    you'll find some cool stuff at all elevations/aspects all season long. visit them all. a good place to start would be the twin lakes pass area, north facing patsy, s/sw/w facing east emma, and east facing off of pass. with very little walking you'll see/poke at a bunch of different snow types and see very quickly how the snow changes in a very short distance. plus you get some fun laps in and around there as well. close to the bar. some days after doing a white/pink/red pine tour, i'd drive up past the ski hill and crooze up to the pass for sunset and farm any of north facing patsy that was left untracked. easy croozer back down the road at tours end.

    yer gonna love it.

    rog

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheRa View Post
    One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?
    I think I still have that PDF. I'll post it when I find it.

    I worked with Drew Hardesty at the Utah Avalanche Center to produce avalanche maps of all the major drainages in the Cottonwoods. The maps show the most frequent slide paths, give detailed information about the topography and other characteristics, and give an overall rating for the area:

    Simple: i.e. Mill D

    Challenging: i.e. Flagstaff

    Complex: i.e. Argenta

    Unfortunately the cheif avalanche officers in Montana said we couldn't release the "Challenging" and "Complex" maps to the public for liability reasons. They also shot down our idea of creating a dynamic map for the website that would give hazard ratings to specific areas for a given day.

    Last time I checked with Drew he said the "Simple" maps of areas such as Mill D and Main Porter Fork will be released but not sure when. We were thinking of distributing them to places like REI. The idea is to let the public know where they can be safe in the backcountry regardless of the conditions.
    Last edited by Mark H; 10-31-2010 at 04:53 PM.

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