Wasatch Conditions 10-11

[Trackhead]

Skied "East Timp" today. Had overly ambitious plans to ski a billygoat line that didn't really work out. Either way, fun day down south. Faceting in the upper 6-8" of snow is impressive. I wonder how nuclear Timp will be with the next storm on this now sketchy snowpack.

We skied the lookers right slide path that empties into the parking lot at Aspen Grove. Conditions were firm snow with dust on top, ready to rip huge with new snow on it, when it comes.


Neat location anyway, with nearly 4,000ft directly to the car, after some dinking around with cliffs, etc.


The little summit offers great views of Timp proper, and even better views of the stunning Robert's Horn.

[dfinn]

edit: nevermind, I guess it's true, there are a lot of dumb rednecks in the snowmobile community.

[The Gnarwhale]

Well, I'm not trying to perpetuate a forum war either, but those photos were submitted to the UAC by Bill Nalli who is a UDOT forecaster. It'd be surprising to see him put his career on the line over something like a photoshopped sledneck.

As Nalli's obs alludes to, it's been an issue for years. Here is a recent letter from the owners of the Cardiff inholdings that may shed more light on the conflict.

And here is a map of the property boundaries in Cardiff. I believe "Dabull's" property is the one outlined in darker black and his right-of-way easement marked with red dots. If the UAC report is correct, he was traveling beyond his property line.

[Trackhead]

One more reason to not ski in the central Wasatch. Too many angry people mooning heli's, cussing at each other, bitching about dogs in skin tracks, bitching about big turns, location of skin tracks, threatening violence, and generally being miserable.

[1thenaton1]

Anybody heading out touring tomorrow that I could tag along with? I'm in Sugarhouse area tonight, would prefer not to head out solo tomorrow or ride the resort. Shoot me a PM, thanks

[ZachClanton]

Whatta day whatta day... Mark H, Jim (Gnarwhale) and Chris taking full advantage of the lake effect... but not the lake you'd think.

[sfotex]

Not trying to start any kind of forum vs forum war with this and at this point and who knows if either side can be proven but according to someone posting on snowest these skiers were on private property that they were very much not welcome to be on. He is also claiming that the image is photoshopped.

I followed snowmobile tracks that were a day or two old up Cardiff on Saturday afternoon at least a 1/2 mile past the creek crossing on the old road (the same creek crossing/road on the goggle map). Not sure how this correlates to the property boundaries, but it was waaay past the private property signs.

[The Gnarwhale]

A couple more from Timp today, because I like pictures.

In all her limestony glory


Trackhead catches a ride in the tube


And out through the swath of destruction


NSF depth is indeed impressive as TH mentioned. Handfulls of facets, most small grained, but some 3mm+. Noticed some punchyness in shallow, sun-exposed slopes. It felt a little hollow near the ground when poked hard enough to break through the crust(s). The snowpack is loosing strength both from the top and bottom.

[truth]

Killing it Jim...some of the best images yet. Really nice stuff.

[Trackhead]

Beautiful timing with the clouds.

[Johnny Deep]

^^

I need to get out more.

[Trackhead]

My observation, holy shit this is a cool line, and I'm surprised it doesn't get skied every day.

[spindrift65]

pretty sure the picture of the guy getting high marked on Cardiac Ridge is not photo shopped since it was me who was getting high marked in the pic. Dealt with this same sort of shit in the northern and southern Wasatch also, oh yeah, I like the central Wasatch, but I hope everyone goes south to get the goods cause apparently that's where its at. As for me no gas money.

[Mark H]

looking towards Payson canyon


snow conditions: wind damage above 9k on west aspects and the obvious faceting snow everywhere else.


hey look, the deadliest highway in America


no wind damage in this north facing chute.....


just perfect light powder




The exit was just a delight. No bushwacking or flat spots. This cool tunnel went a loooooong ways until we popped out in the neighborhoods.


Apparently the ski bus doesn't service this area.... By the time we finished (around 2 p.m.) the snow was getting damp at 6,000 ft.


An overview of our line. Only 2/3 of this 4500' chute is visible from here. Absolutely fantastic terrain, snow, and access.

[StraightChuter]

One more reason to not ski in the central Wasatch. Too many angry people mooning heli's, cussing at each other, bitching about dogs in skin tracks, bitching about big turns, location of skin tracks, threatening violence, and generally being miserable.

You just have to know when to go. And, some people actually seek out conflicts, which is why they go there in the first place.

[lionelhutz]

Two stoopid question from a weather guy who doesn't know enough about snow science.
With all the surface hoar and faceting the best case to refresh the snow pack is a series of smallish steady snowfalls right? Like a big dump would be a death trap no?

Anybody going to be in LCC on the 24 is welcome to get drunk with me on my 30th bday. I'll be the jackass skiing in a suit.

[sfotex]

Two stoopid question from a weather guy who doesn't know enough about snow science.
With all the surface hoar and faceting the best case to refresh the snow pack is a series of smallish steady snowfalls right? Like a big dump would be a death trap no?
.

Probably the best thing now would be a warm spell or rain to melt it. Buried surface hoar and facets will sit there until it's overloaded. Wind can blow it away, but from what I've seen it seems like a lot of garbage just sitting on top of the snow pack, so it would take a huge windstorm (and obviously wind doesn't help in sheltered spots) A big dump can overload it quickly, and you can get a natural avalanche cycle while small storms can just cover it and keep things hanging in balance until someone gets on the slope and triggers it (or you get enough small storms that add up and overload it)

[truth]

Probably the best thing now would be a warm spell or rain to melt it. Buried surface hoar and facets will sit there until it's overloaded. Wind can blow it away, but from what I've seen it seems like a lot of garbage just sitting on top of the snow pack, so it would take a huge windstorm (and obviously wind doesn't help in sheltered spots) A big dump can overload it quickly, and you can get an avalanche cycle. Small storms can just cover it and keep things hanging in balance until someone gets on the slope and triggers it.

You could also challenge trackhead to see if he can't ski all of it out before the next storm. He'll need to start making bigger turns though.

[RTR]

Probably the best thing now would be a warm spell or rain to melt it. Buried surface hoar and facets will sit there until it's overloaded. Wind can blow it away, but from what I've seen it seems like a lot of garbage just sitting on top of the snow pack, so it would take a huge windstorm (and obviously wind doesn't help in sheltered spots) A big dump can overload it quickly, and you can get a natural avalanche cycle while small storms can just cover it and keep things hanging in balance until someone gets on the slope and triggers it (or you get enough small storms that add up and overload it)

Or, simply put, a temperature gradient that would create a rounding process after a storm event on top of the surface hoar layer. (Of course, the new snow would have to have sufficient moisture to facilitate the rounding).

[brutah]

skied this in the central wasatch yesterday. didn't see anyone else (one group was way in front of us but we never caught them and they took a different fork), didn't get in a fight, didn't get highmarked, had a great time even if we didn't get our objective.

not sure the line we skied has an official name. it entered hogum fork from the saddle at the base of the coalpit headwall, north of the needle. y coulior had a nice booter all the way up, making for a record time up it for me (2 hours). snow was great a couple 3-7 inches on a firm surface.

fun was had!

[The Gnarwhale]

I was shaking my head the other day at how I've been saying "It looks like January" since Halloween and now that it is January some places have a snowpack that looks a lot like November. Quite a few of the steeper places on Timp are only ~1m deep, having slid huuuge a few weeks ago. In those places the snow is weakening particularly fast.

The weak layers that are developing seem to me likely to stick with us for a while, regardless of type of storm that comes in next. A series of weaker disturbances like the one forecasted for tonight will delicately add straw to the camel's back. A big shock to the developing weak layers - like last month's big, wet, windy storms - would be better for getting most slopes to slide during a short time period. But, with as much NFS as there is out there, I can imagine slopes avalanching repeatedly rather than just hitting the reset button once and being good to go.

I'm no forecaster, but I think it'll probably take getting a couple feet on top of the current snow surface and then waiting a couple weeks for the avy rose to drop back into the happy little green-with-yellow-dots bullseye we've been seeing.

In the mean time, with foot or two on top of these faceted grains we'll be more likely to see avalanches that are wider, break above the person who triggered it, don't necessarily fail with the first skier down, wrap around ridges, etc. Seems to me that the hazard will trend towards less-manageable avalanches as compared to the relatively predictable ones we've mostly seen this year.

[salida]

I was shaking my head the other day at how I've been saying "It looks like January" since Halloween and now that it is January some places have a snowpack that looks a lot like November. Quite a few of the steeper places on Timp are only ~1m deep, having slid huuuge a few weeks ago. In those places the snow is weakening particularly fast.

The weak layers that are developing seem to me likely to stick with us for a while, regardless of type of storm that comes in next. A series of weaker disturbances like the one forecasted for tonight will delicately add straw to the camel's back. A big shock to the developing weak layers - like last month's big, wet, windy storms - would be better for getting most slopes to slide during a short time period. But, with as much NFS as there is out there, I can imagine slopes avalanching repeatedly rather than just hitting the reset button once and being good to go.

I'm no forecaster, but I think it'll probably take getting a couple feet on top of the current snow surface and then waiting a couple weeks for the avy rose to drop back into the happy little green-with-yellow-dots bullseye we've been seeing.

In the mean time, with foot or two on top of these faceted grains we'll be more likely to see avalanches that are wider, break above the person who triggered it, don't necessarily fail with the first skier down, wrap around ridges, etc. Seems to me that the hazard will trend towards less-manageable avalanches as compared to the relatively predictable ones we've mostly seen this year.

Good write up, Jim. Quoting this thing just in the hopes that people read it twice.

[lionelhutz]

In the mean time, with foot or two on top of these faceted grains we'll be more likely to see avalanches that are wider, break above the person who triggered it, don't necessarily fail with the first skier down, wrap around ridges, etc. Seems to me that the hazard will trend towards less-manageable avalanches as compared to the relatively predictable ones we've mostly seen this year.

So what would normally be a great easy to ski storm of 12 inches would become a killer.

< loads up days on alta card/>

[Johnny Deep]

^^^

Good call.

[Slaag Master]

north face of claytons and hidden canyon was sweet yesterday. all the cold sucked the moisture out of the snow creating velvety conditions. some wind slab on ridges.