A question from another retard....

[F.D.V.]

Finally did it, go figure, it was with my new drill press. Done countless installs by hand without a flaw.

Was installing some PuderLuder inserts tonight and low and behold, I installed the tap too deep in the chuck and stripped my last hole in a new pair of VCTs. I know, JONG move, that I admit.

I tried forcing the insert, but, it just didn't cut it. Got almost deep enough then just spun.

Binding is a duke, hole is the front right of the rear plate.

I have thought of three possible solutions and wanted maggot input on which way to proceed.

Option #1

Apply epoxy to the walls and bottom of the hole but not enough to seal it. Let that cure, then, redrill and retap. Then use whatever thread is created to pull the insert and some fresh epoxy far enough into the ski to let the epoxy work the magic Steel wool mixed with the epoxy perhaps?

Option #2

Fill the hole with JBWeld (or similar) then redrill and retap. Seems straighforward.

Option #3

Fucked?

It seems that there should be a solution. The hole is in the right locale, it just needs 1/16th on each side to establish some sort of thread to pull the insert down into the hole and let the epoxy applied during re-install do its thing.

I am thinking option #1

[stradissimo]

I did a remount last year where a couple of the new holes partially overlapped old holes. I did option 2.

I used this http://www.slidewright.com/proddetai...=SVHME&cat=600 and it seemed to work fine.

[Shorty_J]

Were you tapping with the drll press or by hand? I used my press to tap my first hole and almost stripped it because the press always wants to return to the top of it's range, and that force was difficult to resist when backing out the tap.

I'm guessing you read my original "retard" thread. One suggesting made was to plug with hardwood dowelling epoxied in place. You could do that here, just drill a hole that's larger than the outside diameter of the insert threads, put the dowelling in, the drill and tap into that wood.

Just be sure to cut the dowelling a little shorter than the hole depth and some epoxy on top to seal it.

[F.D.V.]

I was tapping with the press and I gotta say it works perfect! I just fucked up and put the tap too far into the chuck and spun the chuck one to many times.

I adjusted the return on my press to be non-existent so the tap does not want to rip out of the hole. Also, I retain pressure on the return levers as I back the tap out and it works great.

Seriously, I have mounted many a ski by hand and the press works 10x better...I just screwed up something really basic.

I could dowel, but, what would be the point? I think with inserts the real strength comes from the epoxy/insert/wall bond, not from the threads. That is why I am leaning towards option #1. Plus, the other three inserts on the rear plate and solid as anything.

Only other thing I was thinking was to carefully build up the wall of the hole until it can be tapped, not drilled, and then taking it from there. That would give me the thread I need to draw the insert into the ski and then let the epoxy do its work.

I do not think there is a need to drill a fifth hole...I really think that the outer wall of the insert and the wall of the hole are close enough that a good epoxy will bridge the gap and provide a strong connection.

[toast2266]

Option 2.

Also, since its a Duke plate, you might be able to drill another hole in the plate and counter sink it. Maybe a 5th hole that's in the middle, slightly towards the front(?) I don't have a heel plate in front of me, so I'm not sure if there's sufficient plastic to make that option work, but it might make up for any strength lost by the JB weld job.

[F.D.V.]

I thought about the dowel idea too, but, I am not sure what I would gain as opposed to just using epoxy on the walls to build up the threading. It seems, to me at least, that epoxy threads would be just as strong as wood threads if not stronger...unless my thinking is backwards (which is possible).

Were you tapping with the drll press or by hand? I used my press to tap my first hole and almost stripped it because the press always wants to return to the top of it's range, and that force was difficult to resist when backing out the tap.

I'm guessing you read my original "retard" thread. One suggesting made was to plug with hardwood dowelling epoxied in place. You could do that here, just drill a hole that's larger than the outside diameter of the insert threads, put the dowelling in, the drill and tap into that wood.

Just be sure to cut the dowelling a little shorter than the hole depth and some epoxy on top to seal it.

[F.D.V.]

Mmmm....now that looks like what I need. Whether or not it is going to take is another story, but, it looks like a good way to proceed at this point! Worse comes to worse it does not work and I drill out, dowel, and then take it from there.

Where is SlideWright located?

Edit: There is also the option of just mounting at +1 in order to have a more jibby setup. These are my hardpack skis, so, I am not too worried. If these were my pow oriented boards, I would be a little more worried.

I did a remount last year where a couple of the new holes partially overlapped old holes. I did option 2.

I used this http://www.slidewright.com/proddetai...=SVHME&cat=600 and it seemed to work fine.

[farmer]

I think there was a similar thread a few weeks (months?) back. iirc, johndrums(?) suggestion was to make the hole a slightly bigger, put epoxy in, screw binding into insert with some wax paper or w/e so you don't epoxy your binding to the ski, and place the insert in the hole. Maybe add some steel wool to the epoxy. basically, the epoxy will harden just like the insert was threaded into it.

If I'm totally off base on this, someone can correct me, but it seem like the simplest solution. it would be a bitch to get the PL insert back out, but you know (a) its going to be in the right place and (b) you don't have to deal with tapping it again. I would guess that it would be stronger than the other options as well, but I'm a miner not a mech eng, so take that for what its worth.

[F.D.V.]

The thread of which you speak is entitled "A question from a retard". It was up last week and I scoured it for ideas before posting up my issue. While the problems are similar, I do think that mine is a bit simpler than the other thread. First, my hole is in the perfect location. Second, the hole is in primo shape, except that it is stripped.

I did think about filling the hole with epoxy and just sinking the insert in. I just wanted to have some sort of thread to pull the insert in perfectly, but, if I filled with epoxy and installed I guess that could work too?

I think there was a similar thread a few weeks (months?) back. iirc, johndrums(?) suggestion was to make the hole a slightly bigger, put epoxy in, screw binding into insert with some wax paper or w/e so you don't epoxy your binding to the ski, and place the insert in the hole. Maybe add some steel wool to the epoxy. basically, the epoxy will harden just like the insert was threaded into it.

If I'm totally off base on this, someone can correct me, but it seem like the simplest solution. it would be a bitch to get the PL insert back out, but you know (a) its going to be in the right place and (b) you don't have to deal with tapping it again. I would guess that it would be stronger than the other options as well, but I'm a miner not a mech eng, so take that for what its worth.

[Shorty_J]

I thought about the dowel idea too, but, I am not sure what I would gain as opposed to just using epoxy on the walls to build up the threading. It seems, to me at least, that epoxy threads would be just as strong as wood threads if not stronger...unless my thinking is backwards (which is possible).

That's what I thought too, and the suggestion made by others implied that this might not be the case. Maybe epoxy is hard enough, but a little "brittle" or "flakey" compared to wood (which has structure)? Though, your idea of steel wool in the epoxy might mitigate that.

I did think about filling the hole with epoxy and just sinking the insert in. I just wanted to have some sort of thread to pull the insert in perfectly, but, if I filled with epoxy and installed I guess that could work too?

I think it might be difficult to sink the insert in wet epoxy if the hole is almost the exact size of the insert... I would be worried that the epoxy might not flow around the threads. That suggestion was made to me based on the assumption that I would have drilled the hole larger first. I think you'd be better off tapping cured epoxy in your case.

[F.D.V.]

That was a worry of mine as well, not getting the epoxy where it needs to be (between the threads and then making contact with the wall of the hole) if I just flooded the hole and sunk the insert. Also, I don't really want to drill the hole out any larger if I do not need to.

I am going to go with the machinable epoxy applied to the hole the redrill and retap. First attempt is going to be applying it to the sidewalls of the hole and letting a thin later cure then attempt a retap without a redrill. Next attempt, should the first shot not work, will be a full fill then redrill and retap. If that doesn't work then the dowels are coming out.

That's what I thought too, and the suggestion made by others implied that this might not be the case. Maybe epoxy is hard enough, but a little "brittle" or "flakey" compared to wood (which has structure)? Though, your idea of steel wool in the epoxy might mitigate that.
I think it might be difficult to sink the insert in wet epoxy if the hole is almost the exact size of the insert... I would be worried that the epoxy might not flow around the threads. That suggestion was made to me based on the assumption that I would have drilled the hole larger first. I think you'd be better off tapping cured epoxy in your case.

[Shorty_J]

That was a worry of mine as well, not getting the epoxy where it needs to be (between the threads and then making contact with the wall of the hole) if I just flooded the hole and sunk the insert. Also, I don't really want to drill the hole out any larger if I do not need to.

I am going to go with the machinable epoxy applied to the hole the redrill and retap. First attempt is going to be applying it to the sidewalls of the hole and letting a thin later cure then attempt a retap without a redrill. Next attempt, should the first shot not work, will be a full fill then redrill and retap. If that doesn't work then the dowels are coming out.

Sounds good, and good luck. Please report back with your results... I'm curious to hear how it goes.

[skimaxpower]

That sucks, dude. Sympathies.

I would go for option 2+
- Fill the hole with JBweld
- Mix steel wool or fiberglass into the epoxy to add some structural integrity
- Let it harden really good.
- Redrill and start over
- Cross your fingers.

That's just my instinct. No science or experience to back it up, but it's the best thought I have.

If that doesn't work, you have one last (shitty) option: Drill through the ski, and install a snowboard binding insert from the bottom. This is not a pretty or elegant solution - especially on a new pair of skis - but it would work.

[farmer]

good to hear that you're ahead of me on reading the other thread then. good luck

[F.D.V.]

Thanks for the sympathy but I screwed up, plain and simple.

At least I didn't blow the initial hole right through the bottom of the ski! I did this when I was calibrating the depth guage on my drill press...didn't tighten the collar enough and blew the bit right through the ski...now THAT would suck. Worse comes to worse I mount at +1 and be done with it.

That said, I think the plan I have will work. If not, oh well, shit happens.

That sucks, dude. Sympathies.

I would go for option 2+
- Fill the hole with JBweld
- Mix steel wool or fiberglass into the epoxy to add some structural integrity
- Let it harden really good.
- Redrill and start over
- Cross your fingers.

That's just my instinct. No science or experience to back it up, but it's the best thought I have.

If that doesn't work, you have one last (shitty) option: Drill through the ski, and install a snowboard binding insert from the bottom. This is not a pretty or elegant solution - especially on a new pair of skis - but it would work.

[stradissimo]

Where is SlideWright located?

About 10 miles north of Durango on Florida Rd.

Since your location says San Juans, they're almost local for you. Heck, if you're in Durango, Terry (SlideWright owner) will usually hand deliver stuff.

[Eluder]

just spit balling here.... this is assuming that the hole is every so slightly to big.

Install a washer and bolt into the insert to the proper depth. Put epoxy in hole then insert the insert/bolt/washer and clamp in place so it doesn't rise out of the ski while setting. THe bolt/washer combo should keep the insert in its proper alignment. YOu may want to coat the washer with something so epoxy doesn't do its thing. Also use as little epoxy as possible to prevent overflow and a mess.

[F.D.V.]

I am on the east side of the range...near South Fork.

I was thinking of getting in contact with Terry and seeing if he would meet me later in the evening for a pickup after hours, but, have not been able to get him on the horn yet.

@rludes025

Not a bad idea, but, again with the fact that the hole is barely larger than the insert, I would worry I would not get good epoxy distribution between the threads and the sidewall. But, that would be another great plan B option should coating the sidewalls not work out as planned.

About 10 miles north of Durango on Florida Rd.

Since your location says San Juans, they're almost local for you. Heck, if you're in Durango, Terry (SlideWright owner) will usually hand deliver stuff.

[Eluder]

Not a bad idea, but, again with the fact that the hole is barely larger than the insert, I would worry I would not get good epoxy distribution between the threads and the sidewall. But, that would be another great plan B option should coating the sidewalls not work out as planned.

just apply the epoxy to the insert in ensure full coverage

[Norseman]

I am going to go with the machinable epoxy applied to the hole the redrill and retap.

Sounds like your plan is solid. I've been thinking of scenarios like yours as I'm about to mount some PuderLuder inserts as well.

What's the machinable stuff called, specifically? I know the regular 2-ton is way too brittle to cut threads into... unless it were not fully cured.

Good luck with the fix.

[F.D.V.]

See above, post #2 in this thread...that is what I am going to use.

Sounds like your plan is solid. I've been thinking of scenarios like yours as I'm about to mount some PuderLuder inserts as well.

What's the machinable stuff called, specifically? I know the regular 2-ton is way too brittle to cut threads into... unless it were not fully cured.

Good luck with the fix.

[Norseman]

Ah, missed it first time. Thanks.

Let us know how it turns out.

[F.D.V.]

I have a scrap VCT I am going to mangle and perform some tests and then post up about the results...no point in wreck the good one.

Ah, missed it first time. Thanks.

Let us know how it turns out.

[El Chupacabra]

That was a worry of mine as well, not getting the epoxy where it needs to be (between the threads and then making contact with the wall of the hole) if I just flooded the hole and sunk the insert.

If you heat the epoxy when doing this, it will flow much easier. Use a heat gun or a hair dryer. I've found that this really makes the epoxy flow like a much thinner liquid (almost watery) and it's easy to get it to flow into smaller cracks and spaces.

[ripvanwinter]

I had a loose fitting insert in my LP's last fall. I pulled the insert and mixed a little steel wool in with the Hysol epoxy I was using too set them and got a great bite in the hole that way.

good amount of abuse last season and no problem at all.