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  1. #26
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    I used a marine epoxy in my boat floor (fibreglass and wood) to fill the/a screw holes that held the seat mount in place. It was the green stick/white inside you tore a chunk off and mashed it in your fingers to bubble gum ish consistency. Anyway I mashed it into the hole, let it cure over night and re-drilled it, re installed the screw- and voila. Worked like a damn (no mess, overflow to worry about...it shrinks slightly as it hardens). Could be a solution? It dried super hard, felt harder than regular epoxy.
    FWIW my 2 cents.
    cheers,
    peter
    "Dad, I can huck that"

  2. #27
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    May 2002
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    On a hole that's a bit too wide, you could run wet epoxy in it and use toothpicks to align the insert just right in the resin pool. The thing I like about resin is it's nature to permeate into surrounding wood, kinda solidifying everything around it. I used the think it would lock screws in when mounting with it, but it really doesn't. The metal is not porous enough to bond. A quick tap with just about anything will shake it from the epoxy and allow an easy backout, leaving threads you can go back into in most cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by spotted dogs View Post
    I used a marine epoxy in my boat floor (fibreglass and wood) to fill the/a screw holes that held the seat mount in place. It was the green stick/white inside you tore a chunk off and mashed it in your fingers to bubble gum ish consistency. Anyway I mashed it into the hole, let it cure over night and re-drilled it, re installed the screw- and voila.
    I used to get some stuff like that for wet plumbing fixes. Leaky pipe? Just mash this shit together and slap it on and the leak was done. Didn't even have to turn the water off. Loved it.

  3. #28
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    Update:

    I created three test holes. One was filled with epoxy, one had just the walls coated with a thin layer of epoxy, and in one hole I epoxied and doweled with a 5/16 dowel.

    Let them sit for two days at room temperature.

    The dowel and the hole filled with epoxy didn't cut it. They redrilled excellent but did not retap at all. The hole that just had the walls slightly epoxied created a great tap and I placed fresh JBWeld in the hole and sunk the insert perfectly! I epoxied the wall of the non-test ski tonight and will see if I get similar results tomorrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    It's the same argument for prostitution. There's a lot of people in this world who won't be getting laid unless they pay big bucks or fuck an artificial life form. No amount of consolation, pity or comiserating is going to change that reality.
    Slaughter is the best medicine.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.D.V. View Post
    Update:

    I created three test holes. One was filled with epoxy, one had just the walls coated with a thin layer of epoxy, and in one hole I epoxied and doweled with a 5/16 dowel.
    Interesting. What kind of wood was the dowell made of? I used something unknown that I found at a craft store, of all places. The wood was definatley a hardwood, not a softwood, but I have no idea what it actually was. Trying to tap it gave no threads at all in the dowelling.

  5. #30
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    Update #2

    Didn't work. The threads stripped out as soon as any pressure was applied to the insert as it bottomed out. The threads looked good before installation, but, as it went in I could tell that it wasn't going to take. Out of frustration, I wadded epoxy in the hole (5/16) and on the threads on the insert. I pushed the insert into the hole, cleaned the excess epoxy, and then applied a clamp. Two hours later, I took the clamp off and aligned the insert with the rear basepate of the Duke and then reapplied the clamp. They are drying right now and with any luck the inserts should take.

    We will see, I will do a torque test tomorrow when the drying is complete.

    This time I used Hardman General Purpose and it seems to be taking a bit better than the JBWeld.
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    It's the same argument for prostitution. There's a lot of people in this world who won't be getting laid unless they pay big bucks or fuck an artificial life form. No amount of consolation, pity or comiserating is going to change that reality.
    Slaughter is the best medicine.

  6. #31
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    Update #3

    Removed the clamps this morning and again tested the alignment of the insert. The insert sucked totally down into the hole and aligned perfectly. I did not do a torque test yet, as I wanted to give the epoxy another 12 hours to set. That said, the thing looked really solid in there, but, looks are one thing and ripping an insert out at a bad moment is another.

    Any ideas on how to test the insert? I was thinking of setting the 12V Dewalt screw gun to a 12 or 14 torque setting and hitting it with a low speed fastener. I figure if it breaks free then it didn't work and if it does not I am good to go? Only other thing I can think of is to mount the bindings, step in, and bounce around on the tips of the skis while doing pull-ups to see if I can get it to rip out.

    Any other ideas on how to test?
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    It's the same argument for prostitution. There's a lot of people in this world who won't be getting laid unless they pay big bucks or fuck an artificial life form. No amount of consolation, pity or comiserating is going to change that reality.
    Slaughter is the best medicine.

  7. #32
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    If you could get a long screw or threaded rod (like 6"-10") that fits the insert and just yank on it. No idea where you would find such hardware but yea...

    I dont think your screw gun idea is the best. Skiing does not put that type of torque on a binding screw
    Best Skier on the Mountain
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  8. #33
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    I'd probably just screw a regular machine screw into it. Wedge the claw end of a hammer under it and try to pull it up. Obviously you don't want to really wail on it, but you ought to be able to get a general idea of whether its going to pop right out.

    Agreed w/ nickwm21 that rotational torque on it won't test it correctly.

  9. #34
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    Easily done...take one of the tapered fasteners that is used with the Dukes for inserts and install it then pull on it with a claw hammer...seems simple enough and accurate enough.

    Fingers crossed...guess we will see how strong epoxy really is! I am not going to ream on it too hard, but, I do want to know if that fucker is going to release on me!
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    It's the same argument for prostitution. There's a lot of people in this world who won't be getting laid unless they pay big bucks or fuck an artificial life form. No amount of consolation, pity or comiserating is going to change that reality.
    Slaughter is the best medicine.

  10. #35
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    Hate to say it now, but some shots on all this would have made a cool tr for the tech talk library.

  11. #36
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    I'd say don't pull on it with the claw. That will torque the shit out of it in a direction that would never occur with the binding on.

    Maybe you could insert a machine screw and hang a weight from the ski upside down to simulate preload tension from the binding screw. Then further load the weight to represent quick impact loading from skiing over bumps/landing/crashing.

    Just throwing it out there. Sounds kinda silly.

  12. #37
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  13. #38
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    Claw hammer was a bad idea...the insert came rocketing out after I pulled it to the side. I just do not think the test was realistic to the pressure that would actually be applied to the ski by the binding plate.

    Anyway, I am now pretty much stumped. The epoxy did not seem to cure very well and seemed to have little adhesion to the side of the hole. The threads of the insert that pulled were full of epoxy, but, the wall of the hole was totally clean with no epoxy left behind.

    At this point, I am wondering if it would be worth it to just put in some epoxy, a dowel that is shorter than the hole, then epoxy over the top and just install one of the standard Duke screws after a 3.6mm hole is drilled and just use the standard screw. Obviously this almost totally defeats the purpose of the other holes being tapped, but, at this point I just think that any insert that is installed will not be as secure as I want it to be.

    This seems to be the weakness with using inserts...if you fuck the mount up, you are going to be in a world of hurt.
    Last edited by F.D.V.; 10-20-2010 at 09:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    It's the same argument for prostitution. There's a lot of people in this world who won't be getting laid unless they pay big bucks or fuck an artificial life form. No amount of consolation, pity or comiserating is going to change that reality.
    Slaughter is the best medicine.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.D.V. View Post
    This seems to be the weakness with using inserts...if you fuck the mount up, you are going to be in a world of hurt.
    Quoted for truth.

  15. #40
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    I think your on the right track. Maybe consider using JB weld instead of the epoxy. Clean the insert with isopropyl alcohol and apply some heat to insure the JB weld/ epoxy is getting around every where. Then be patient, the longer it sits the better. The stuff will set up more over time in my findings, non scientific of course. My test would be skiing them, since that what they will be used for. Since your going to be removing the bindings from this ski you will be able to inspect it regularly.

    Also, the hole at issue is in the best possible spot I would say. For future skis I wonder if you could get your hands on extra heal tracks then just have to do the front 5 with inserts.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  16. #41
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    I cleaned the insert with Acetone and also roughened up the inside of the hole with a wire brush on a drill bit to give the epoxy something to grab onto. I also heated the epoxy with a hair dryer to get a more fluid viscosity.

    Not a bad idea re: the hell track.
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    It's the same argument for prostitution. There's a lot of people in this world who won't be getting laid unless they pay big bucks or fuck an artificial life form. No amount of consolation, pity or comiserating is going to change that reality.
    Slaughter is the best medicine.

  17. #42
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    Treat it like a striped binding screw, wood shavings, steel wool, epoxy and forget it ever happend
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  18. #43
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    Shit! I came here too late. I have the correct solution!

    It'll cost you $50 but it'll work
    McMasterCarr PN 91732A925

    That's a helicoil kit which fits with the outside thread of the inserts. Redrill with a slightly bigger drill, retap with the helicoil tap, install helicoil, install insert with epoxy.

    NEVER tap with a drill or drill press. Sorry, but this is what inevitably happens when you do it that way. I was appalled to see the photo on PL's website recommending this. ALWAYS tap by hand with a tap handle. If you aren't steady enough to tap straight this way, use a centering collet in your drill press like McMasterCarr 2550A65, or use a "drill block" which is a piece of wood or plastic drilled straight through at the diameter of the tap to keep it going in straight.

  19. #44
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    Well shit, that certainly would solve the problem pretty well!

    Curious if it is not too late to do it this way...hmm.

    Thanks for the beta jondrums! :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    It's the same argument for prostitution. There's a lot of people in this world who won't be getting laid unless they pay big bucks or fuck an artificial life form. No amount of consolation, pity or comiserating is going to change that reality.
    Slaughter is the best medicine.

  20. #45
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    Dec 2005
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    Mexitana
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    yeah at this point t-nut with ptex base insert from bottom up. It will never rip out of the ski.
    Popular for snowboards.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    If you heat the epoxy when doing this, it will flow much easier. Use a heat gun or a hair dryer. I've found that this really makes the epoxy flow like a much thinner liquid (almost watery) and it's easy to get it to flow into smaller cracks and spaces.

    this is a good tip for getting epoxy into a ski repair & fixing spinners

    Altho I been very happy using 2 part slow-set everyone always talks highly of JB weld so I gave it a try AND I found JB doesn't get into holes cracks and spaces very well cuz JB isnt going to flow anywhere which is what this tip adresses ... My take on JB weld

    I chop the individual strands of fibreglass matt into 1/2 inch bits ,mix with 2 part cram it into the hole ,run the screw in till it is JUST about to spin and leave to set ,crank the screw down hard after the epoxy sets ... so far its always worked


    as for inserts or plates I was toying with the idea then I thot no plate is available for my specific need ,if a plate was available it would make a touring setup weigh more, I would have to buy these things in a foriegn country and hassel with getting them here ,hassle with instaling them ,try finding the right screws to fit the inserts in a very small town and then swap the bindings around everytime ,SO instead I moved around some bindings in the quiver to better make use for no money and no hassles other than a FR+ remount .

    but maybe I will try plates or inserts another time if the need arises,maybe by then a system that allows easy swapping and movement of bindings on the ski will be more readily available

  22. #47
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    Sorry I missed you (I was on a trip). Did you get this sorted out and could you post pictures with a synopsis? If WC had more than 10" and charged less than $31, I'd consider a rendezvous if needed.

    I'm wondering if a larger brass insert (tap in or threaded) and alpine screw would work. I've read good results with the nylon tap ins for repairs and repeated binding swaps.

    Edit: [ame="https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2600940#post2600940"]see this thread page for insert pullout ratings and types.[/ame]

    Quote Originally Posted by F.D.V. View Post
    I am on the east side of the range...near South Fork.

    I was thinking of getting in contact with Terry and seeing if he would meet me later in the evening for a pickup after hours, but, have not been able to get him on the horn yet.

    @rludes025

    Not a bad idea, but, again with the fact that the hole is barely larger than the insert, I would worry I would not get good epoxy distribution between the threads and the sidewall. But, that would be another great plan B option should coating the sidewalls not work out as planned.
    Last edited by Alpinord; 10-31-2010 at 11:30 AM.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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