would this be bad-ass? PuderLuder + JonDrum Plates

**Poop~Ghost** · 09-28-2010, 06:33 PM

I'm in the boat of wanting all my skis to be dynafit and solly compatible. Not to put jonDrums outta business, but you could swap the entire plate around to multiple skis with just the cost of puderluder inserts for each ski.

I was planning on doing multiple dynaSolly plates, but it would be more cost effective to not drop $100 x each ski for each ski to have it's own dynaSolly plate.

**mortimer** · 09-28-2010, 07:59 PM

IMHO id rather pay for a few plates instead of taking the time and effort to install that many inserts. you'd also end up having to un-screw and re-screw the plate and binding each time you wanted to switch skis... i feel like the extra plate would pay for itself after two of those sessions.

**TWINS** · 09-28-2010, 09:05 PM

I also thought of that with my ft12`s until I saw the DynaDuke plate holes being covered by the binding.Twice as much work to move my clamps around killed my buzz.

**Core Shot** · 09-29-2010, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by TWINS

I also thought of that with my ft12`s until I saw the DynaDuke plate holes being covered by the binding.Twice as much work to move my clamps around killed my buzz.

that is the real shame.

the plates would be slightly heavier, since larger, but if all 4 screws on each plate were accessible with the binding attached, life would be a lot easier.

-No need to adjust bindings
-quicker swappage
- one less screw on duke toe or dynafit toe or 916 heel
- no worry about the brake housing blocing the forward heel screws on dynafit
- no worry about the flare on the heel of a salomon blocking the access to the rear heeel screws.
- no need to remove the salomon brake to access the front heel screws.
- etc.

**Poop~Ghost** · 09-29-2010, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

that is the real shame.

the plates would be slightly heavier, since larger, but if all 4 screws on each plate were accessible with the binding attached, life would be a lot easier.

-No need to adjust bindings
-quicker swappage
- one less screw on duke toe or dynafit toe or 916 heel
- no worry about the brake housing blocing the forward heel screws on dynafit
- no worry about the flare on the heel of a salomon blocking the access to the rear heeel screws.
- no need to remove the salomon brake to access the front heel screws.
- etc.

well you nailed it man. I was just assuming that the plate mounting screws would be accessible.

**single** · 09-29-2010, 10:50 AM

without a set of jondrums in front of me...

I imagine the plate would have to be significantly bigger to accommodate screws with easy access while having bindings installed. I see a hudge dead zone issue in the middle of the skis from a bigger plate.

I would also be concerned about stripping or crossthreading screws/insert holes after tons of swaps.

**Core Shot** · 09-30-2010, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by single

without a set of jondrums in front of me...

I imagine the plate would have to be significantly bigger to accommodate screws with easy access while having bindings installed. I see a hudge dead zone issue in the middle of the skis from a bigger plate.

I would also be concerned about stripping or crossthreading screws/insert holes after tons of swaps.

1) not really. the plates dont need to be that hudge. only slightly more bigger. they would not be as sexy (jon drums plates are engineering art)

2) less cross threading and stripping risk, not more.
With a puder luder insert, its a stainless steel screw into a stainless steel thread.

with a jondrums plate its a (? ) screw into an aluminum plate. Not throwing rocks since many have swapped without stripping the aluminum.
But stripping cross-threading stainless will be a lot harder to do than alu.

**jondrums** · 09-30-2010, 08:49 PM

yeah - I've of course thought about this...

I really didn't want to change the mounting pattern going to dynasolly, so I didn't widen it out. I do think its kind of overkill to go inserts+plates, and the plate products are aimed at people who don't want to fiddle with insert installation (mounting mistakes have pretty severe consequences). Perhaps just use inserts for both bindings.

FYI, the threads on the aluminum plates are "rolled" threads, not cut threads. There are many advantages of this higher quality thread, one being that it is significantly more durable than standard cut threads. Most machinists don't have the capability to create rolled threads, so they aren't common even if they are much better.

FYI#2: the threads on my stainless V2 inserts, which won't go on sale for another month of so are rolled as well, which is quite a bit better than what has come before

**single** · 09-30-2010, 09:08 PM

Coreshot,

I guess my concern was about crossthreading a insert as opposed to a plate. If you screw up a plate, you can replace it, but replacing an insert is a lot more work.

**Patches** · 09-30-2010, 10:57 PM

Rolled threads? Pimptastic!

**Poop~Ghost** · 10-01-2010, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by jondrums

yeah - I've of course thought about this...

I really didn't want to change the mounting pattern going to dynasolly, so I didn't widen it out. I do think its kind of overkill to go inserts+plates, and the plate products are aimed at people who don't want to fiddle with insert installation (mounting mistakes have pretty severe consequences). Perhaps just use inserts for both bindings.

FYI, the threads on the aluminum plates are "rolled" threads, not cut threads. There are many advantages of this higher quality thread, one being that it is significantly more durable than standard cut threads. Most machinists don't have the capability to create rolled threads, so they aren't common even if they are much better.

FYI#2: the threads on my stainless V2 inserts, which won't go on sale for another month of so are rolled as well, which is quite a bit better than what has come before

Has anybody successfully pulled off dyna and solly inserts on the same ski? Seems like you wouldn't have the clearance.

**toast2266** · 10-01-2010, 12:43 PM

Machining Jong: How do you roll threads on the plates? I'm familiar with rolled threads for bolts, but I don't get how you do it down in the holes of the plate.

**Poop~Ghost** · 10-01-2010, 02:35 PM

Thread rolling is a cold forming process carried out on room temperature blanks. Rotating hardened steel dies are pressed against the surface of cylindrical blank. As the blank rolls against the in-feeding die faces, the material is displaced, or cold worked to form the roots of the thread. The displaced material flows radially outward to form the thread's crest.

Unlike other threading processes, no material is removed, and no waste chips are produced. Thus, less raw material is needed for a Rolled Thread.

The cold forming gives your thread a higher fatigue strength. During the threading process, the surface layer of the raw material is put into compressive stress. There are no sharp corners in the root or tool marks on the flanks to cause stress risers.

**PuderLuder** · 10-01-2010, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

Machining Jong: How do you roll threads on the plates? I'm familiar with rolled threads for bolts, but I don't get how you do it down in the holes of the plate.

Same question. I was not aware it was possible to roll an inner thread. I just called a couple reputable machine shops (even ones that roll threads) and they also said it was not possible.

PL

**jondrums** · 10-01-2010, 07:15 PM

^^ They are wrong.

**lobstahmeatwad** · 10-01-2010, 11:29 PM

did you guys make up?

So jon, you will be selling a different product here in a bit?

Rolled inner threads inside and cut out vs cut inner and cut out?

**jondrums** · 10-02-2010, 06:55 PM

yeah, I'll be making a run of improved inserts for this fall. Rolled threads inside and out for those that want the best. Price will be very reasonable - I've found a few ways to make improvements, but I won't be publicly releasing the design this time around.