Fast rolling 2.35 AM tyre?

**robbo** · 09-24-2010, 07:46 PM

Hi guys,

Just got a Giant Reign which comes with Kenda Nevegals 2.35.

This tyre is way too big and slow rolling for the mostly hardpack/sandy/loose trails I ride. The Nevegals have great grip on the downhill but I need a tyre that isn't fighting me on flats and uphill.

So now I'm looking for a fast rolling, all-round tyre. I have Maxxis Crossmarks on my XC bike and this tyre has enough grip for my local trails and goes pretty fast.

I guess I'm looking for something similar in a 2.35 size?

Would the High Roller or Minion do the trick?

Any other tyres to look at?

**adam** · 09-24-2010, 08:05 PM

Try out the 2.4 ardent. I liked it, some hate it. Good for the loose stuff and rolls well. I've been on my pair for around 3 months now (front tire). Still doing ok.

**bl2000** · 09-24-2010, 08:10 PM

In just about that size, the 2.4 Schwalbe Racing Ralphs are fast and have good grip when pumped to about 28 pounds. Light too. I switched this summer from my usual tire brand of choice (Contis), and the control from the RR's blew me away. Note: that's based on my riding a mix of northeastern single track under mostly dry conditions. (We've been in a drought since June.)

**tromano** · 09-24-2010, 08:23 PM

I like the 2.3 Weirwolf. If you want a fun drifty all around tire, they are great. I think they roll pretty well on hard pack.

**BushwackerinPA** · 09-24-2010, 08:32 PM

never tried the racing ralph...

the ardent though I have been running is pretty sweet as a front tire. never tried it as a rear tire. I am running a 2.25 on a race/trail bike. Its rolls nearly as fast as a 2.1 ignitor but grips SO much better in more surfaces. I got the ardent for my 29er though since my favorite tire doesnt come in a 29er...... which is... the 2.4 Panaracer Fire freeride front and rear(trust me rockin tire for dry stuff and alot of wet stuff) more grip and faster rolling than the nevegal.

also run it tubeless. with tubes it feels so sluggish.

BTW I hate nevegals and thinks its amoung the worst cornering tires I have ever tried.

**Mr. Toad** · 09-24-2010, 08:47 PM

I'd go bigger on a Reign, but I live in Tahoe.

Let me know if you want to unload those 2.35's (or trade for brand new Neve 2.1's).

**robbo** · 09-24-2010, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

BushwackerinPA im feeling you on the cornering with the Nevegals. They're so blocky that they don't fall into corners well at all. I thought it was just me but I think it has to do with the shape of the tyre. On open fast singletrack they are awesome and you can go in balls deep but I don't ride that every day.

BJ2000: honestly the Schwalbe's are out of my price range, they're almost double the price of Maxxis, WTB.

The Weirwolfs look good, they are still an option.

Ardent looks like a good compromise.
How do I know what size tyres will fit my rim? Obviously 2.35 will, but will 2.25 or 2.4?

**shimstack** · 09-24-2010, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by robbo

Thanks for the replies guys.

BushwackerinPA im feeling you on the cornering with the Nevegals. They're so blocky that they don't fall into corners well at all. I thought it was just me but I think it has to do with the shape of the tyre. On open fast singletrack they are awesome and you can go in balls deep but I don't ride that every day.

BJ2000: honestly the Schwalbe's are out of my price range, they're almost double the price of Maxxis, WTB.

The Weirwolfs look good, they are still an option.

Ardent looks like a good compromise.
How do I know what size tyres will fit my rim? Obviously 2.35 will, but will 2.25 or 2.4?

How wide are your rims? Any tire will "fit", but a narrower rim will give you a rounder profile, and a wider rim will make the profile more square.

I don't really have any tire suggestions for you though. I'm running 3lb 2.5" fat knobby motherfuckers on my trail bike.

**goldenboy** · 09-25-2010, 08:07 AM

Pretty much the holy grail of tires for a lot of us (fat + fast).

I've been pretty happy with my ignitor so far, and really like my weirwolfs, though they are drifty as a previous poster stated. You mentioned the highroller in your first post- I'm convinced there is no slower tire on the planet. I absolutely hated my ardent but like adam said, some people love em

**Arty50** · 09-25-2010, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by robbo

BushwackerinPA im feeling you on the cornering with the Nevegals. They're so blocky that they don't fall into corners well at all. I thought it was just me but I think it has to do with the shape of the tyre. On open fast singletrack they are awesome and you can go in balls deep but I don't ride that every day.

Yeah, the nevegals suck for cornering. That's why I don't run them anymore. Out of curiousity, what tread compound do you have though? That made a big difference in how fast they rolled (especially uphill) in my experience. The Stick-E's were very grippy but slow as hell; the DTCs were the opposite. The harder center knobs on the DTCs flew, but the soft side knobs had tons of grip for cornering. It always makes me wish that Maxxis had reversed the 3C concept so that it was the same.

Anyway, not trying to convince you to go back to the Nevegals. Don't, they suck. But just saying keep tread compound in mind too with whatever you buy. For instance, Maxxis generally offers 60a, 3C, and Super Tacky (42a) in it's tires.

**squirrelmurphy** · 09-25-2010, 10:39 AM

Rubber Queens (Trail King) are pretty fast, and have more grip than anything I've tried. Big 2.25 at 650g and big 2.4 at 850g. I run the non-ust version tubeless and they rock.

**Chugachjed** · 09-25-2010, 10:50 AM

Specialized purgatory grid is a fast rolling tire with good traction, 2.2 but spesh tires are wide.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 09-25-2010, 11:15 AM

this is all very interesting since I ride mostly hardpack, and loose over hardpack, but need grip in the steeps. I have 2 2.35 Ignitors that came stock. There's pretty good, but I know I can get faster, lighter and grippier. Also, are they a small 2.35? I run them at 40psi or below, and they're on a pretty narrow rim. Maybe it's all in my head. Was thinking 2.4 Racing Ralphs or a 2.4 Nobby Nic in the front and a 2.4 racing ralph in the back (I don't like drifty). Or are 2.25 Schwalbes the same size as my ignitors? Fast Track Control from Specialized looks good, but the widest it comes is a 2.2. How big is that 2.2? 2.4 front and 2.25 rear NN or RR? Too many options.
I like the benefits of a wider tire.

**Spats** · 09-26-2010, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Chugachjed

Specialized purgatory grid is a fast rolling tire with good traction, 2.2 but spesh tires are wide.

There is a 2.4 Purgatory. Not light, but very, very fast rolling for its size and traction.

**tromano** · 09-26-2010, 11:53 AM

I fully agree with BWIPA and anyone else who doesn't like nevegals. I used to ride them but they are super slow tractor tread on the ups and did not corner nearly was well as other stuff on the downs. I never noticed a huge difference between the 2.35 sicky and 2.35 DTC. The 2.1 DTC were alot faster though.

The new WW is my new favoraite tire, but the Purgatory is also a very nice fast rolling tire that offers good grip and better cornering than what you have. Better in eastern forest soil and real mud than the weir.

**robbo** · 09-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I took the bike for a spin again yesterday.
I would not recommend Nevegals unless you ride lift serviced or shuttles!
They don't have any roll or speed on their own. Acceleration is no good. You can use them but its hard work and after 1 hour or so your sick of them slowing you down.
I will say that they are very grippy in open, fast singletrack. Would suit lift serviced big mountain very well but we don't have any of that here!
My Nevegals are 2.35 sticky front and DTC back.

I found an awesome spreadsheet which has rolling resistance data from tests performed by Bike magazine Germany. Some of the test dates are from a while ago so some tyres may be better now. The lower the watts the better:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...ShdZdcLA#gid=0

The Nobby Nic's and Racing Ralph's score very well as do the Continental Race King and Mountin King. The Ignitor's and Larsen TT score well too.

The High Roller and Nevegals scored the worst out of all the tires with almost double the rolling resistance of the better tyres. I was sure it wasn't all in my head!

Right now im fairly convinced the Nobby Nic (front) and Racing Ralph (rear) is the best combo to run (for speed and better than average grip), they are pricey at $50-$60 each.

A much cheaper option (less than half that price) is to run an Ignitor in the front and a Larsen TT in the rear. Both these tyres would be $50 total, good value..

**Spats** · 09-26-2010, 02:49 PM

That's an interesting chart, but I'd be careful about extrapolating it to different versions of the same tire.

Maybe it's because I'm on a 29er and I'm using the 2.4 versions of both, but no way does a Mountain King roll better than a Purgatory on my bike.

**LeeLau** · 09-26-2010, 03:18 PM

I think the Nevegals are good for very technical slow-speed or very steep terrain with long extended downhills. They are terribly slow otherwise but you don't notice their slowness when gravity is doing the work. Since almost all of you do not ride in North Vancouver or Squamish or Whistler on a regular basis I agree their stickiness is probably overkill for your conditions especially since they are slow as molasses

Curiously Maxxis High rollers and Minions which I like for AM/DH use are also considered slow tires.

I love the IRC mythos and Maxxis Larsen for XC/AM use - they're fast-rolling but not aggressive at all and drift easily (which I rather enjoy actually)

**robbo** · 09-26-2010, 03:38 PM

A lot of those measurements are a few years old so I guess you have to take them with a grain of salt. I think it does give a rough idea though.

Here in Victoria, Australia the riding is hilly terrain through forests.
Mostly hardpack with a thin loose layer of sand/gravel on top.
It's up and down all the time so acceleration and roll is important to keep momentum up.
I don't know why Giant Australia specced the Nevegal for the Reign here because IMO it's definately overkill for our local terrain.
Especially as we are heading into summer (very hot and dry).

If I don't find a good deal on Schwalbe's I think it's going to be a Larssen for the rear and something slightly more grippy (ignitor?) for the front.
Definately need a front tire that's good in loose and dry conditions because I found the front tyre slips out easily around corners in these conditions.

**robbo** · 09-26-2010, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

I think the Nevegals are good for very technical slow-speed or very steep terrain with long extended downhills. They are terribly slow otherwise but you don't notice their slowness when gravity is doing the work.

I agree 100%. If you are riding technical slow stuff the grip is excellent.
It is the grippiest tyre for technical climbs/descents I have ever used.
I clear sections of the trail I would normally slip out on with ease.
Unfortunately there is not much of that terrain here, its mostly undulating hardpack/sandy single track which is so slow with these tires

Still considering keeping them for shuttle runs and mini DH use (few times a year I would do that kind of thing), resale value on them is not a lot...

**BushwackerinPA** · 09-26-2010, 05:30 PM

to be fair to the nevegal it excels and grip when its not leaned over on anything. Wet roots and rocks come to mind.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 09-26-2010, 05:42 PM

Indeed, that Schwalbe info is old. I'm pretty sure their tire designs have changed since that table.
Sometimes the Ignitors surprise me with their grip, sometimes, they scare me. They really aren't very good going down steep and loose stuff. Everything here has gotten really sandy and rocky and rutted.
Oh, it actually does rate one of the NNs as being the new version, and having less rolling resistance than 2.35 Ignitors. Another thing is that I think there are several versions of 2.35 Ignitor, with changes in tpi or durometer or something. I'm sure mine are the cheap ones.
I should add that I went up to an 8" rotor on the front, which you have to be careful with. I make sure the QR is tight enough that the tire isn't being pulled left too hard when braking (at least no visibly). Also, only the rear tire is begining to show signs of wear, so it would be a RaRa, or NoNi on the front, with 2.35 Ignitor in the rear.

**squirrelmurphy** · 09-26-2010, 06:33 PM

For people thinking Nobby Nics, I just went from the NN to the Conti Trail King non-ust. The contis are a bit heavier, but I think they roll faster, grip better (especially on wet roots and rocks, though worse in mud), and are much cheaper.

**Dromond** · 09-26-2010, 07:04 PM

What do people think of the 2.25 Maxxis Advantage? I run one on the front of my XC bike and have been happy in mixed terrain. It is just ok on really slick rocks, roots and clay but seems to roll decently and grip will in firm to soft dirt conditions.

I've got Minion DHFs 2.35 60s in the rear and 2.5 3C in the front on my Enduro. They grip like hell in loose conditions especially. I only wanted more grip on super sketchy wet wood constructions. (Not really my favorite stuff to begin with.) I'm trying to decide whether I'm crazy to want to swap the front to a 42a from late fall/winter/spring riding in the PNW. As is, they already roll quite slow.

**MakersTeleMark** · 09-26-2010, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dromond

What do people think of the 2.25 Maxxis Advantage? I run one on the front of my XC bike and have been happy in mixed terrain. It is just ok on really slick rocks, roots and clay but seems to roll decently and grip will in firm to soft dirt conditions.

I've got Minion DHFs 2.35 60s in the rear and 2.5 3C in the front on my Enduro. They grip like hell in loose conditions especially. I only wanted more grip on super sketchy wet wood constructions. (Not really my favorite stuff to begin with.) I'm trying to decide whether I'm crazy to want to swap the front to a 42a from late fall/winter/spring riding in the PNW. As is, they already roll quite slow.

Funny, I run the same setup, but the Minion up front and the Advantage in the rear.