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09-22-2010, 11:03 AM #1
Wolves.....whadya think about 'em?
It's ramping up to Elk/Deer season around here.....and with that the perennial Wolves vs. Hunter debate is firing up in earnest.
I'm not a hunter myself, but am an avid outdoorsman and advocate for a diverse ecosystem, in all aspects. I realize the importance of having a keystone predator like the Gray Wolf in the food chain for overall vitality of the system as a whole. I also realize that they do need to be regulated as any other predator would be.
I say regulated, to differentiate from the resounding sentiment among a large population of demographic here that would rather "extirpate" the Wolves rather than regulate. A large portion of these people tend to be Big Game hunters, and their battle cry is that the wolves are decimating the Elk/Deer populations in the region.
The reality is that after years of years of their absence, the wolves are bringing the Elk/Deer populations back to a sustainable level in terms of overall ecosystem health.
Soooooo.......what's your thoughts on the subject? Kill em' or save em'? Have any of you had altercations in the backcountry with wolves?
Discuss.
Fats-
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09-22-2010, 11:11 AM #2
[ame=https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113800]huh?? do ya mean woves?[/ame]
that's all i can think of, but i'm sure there's something else...
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09-22-2010, 11:19 AM #3Hudge
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- 2,133
Let'em live.
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09-22-2010, 11:21 AM #4
Rednecks iz stoopid, K?
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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09-22-2010, 11:22 AM #5
The people crowing about them decimating the deer population and wanting to kill 'em all don't know much about ecology. A sustainable population of apex predators is healthy in most cases. That said, they do need to be regulated as they do pose a threat to livestock. Of course, there are also non-lethal methods that can be effective in deterring wolves. The fladry has been used in Europe for a long time, and is seeing increasing use in the states with success.
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09-22-2010, 11:25 AM #6
Great responses so far. Wolves are great for the ecosystem.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
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09-22-2010, 11:28 AM #7
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09-22-2010, 11:28 AM #8
Love wolves, but I'm not a rancher losing livestock to them nor do I ever see any here in Va.
I think they're important apex predators that deserve reasonable protection."You damn colonials and your herds of tax write off dressage ponies". PNWBrit
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09-22-2010, 11:29 AM #9
Have any of you seen a wolf in wild? It's amusing to me that people around here are ranting and raving that the "wolves are taking over" and are "going to start attacking our children and families." Total horseshit.
I spend A LOT of time in the backcountry, in the heart of wolf country here, and still have yet to hear one, let alone see one.
You?
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09-22-2010, 11:32 AM #10
I have seen a few, actually. Never, ever once an issue. Wifey was hiking with a friend, both of them with toddlers, up Mud Lake (~1 mile from our house), a wolf was just sitting on a ridgeline watching them, no threat whatsoever. I am more concerned with rabid FS employees...
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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09-22-2010, 11:39 AM #11
I've seen lots of wolves in the wild...great critters. I lived in Yellowstone for 2 years and in MT for 4.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
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09-22-2010, 11:58 AM #12Hudge
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- Mar 2008
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If I saw a wolf in the wild I would consider my self a lucky guy. I'd like to see them re-introduced in CO, maybe up in RMNP to start. They would surely spread from there.
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09-22-2010, 12:00 PM #13
I vote for re-introduction in Loveland.
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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09-22-2010, 12:05 PM #14
They're pack animals so they're easily trainable, though not as easy going as most dogs, they need their exercise.
A hyena would be good too, tougher stronger and better fighters than wolves, but wolves have the better endurance, so if you plan to have it ski with you go for a wolf.
In all seriousness, ranchers that bitch and whine and complain about wolves need to remember that not too long ago ranchers were thought to be tough and didnt have any government help and there were tons of predators.
I see no reason why they shouldn't be hunted in moderation where there are stable populations. Since wolves like to travel, especially once kicked out of a pack, I really think they are going to be all over the west before too long. People have been saying there are some in colorado for a while now. I'm stoked.
I saw one lone black wolf in the wild in AK from about 100 yards away. I was not the least bit afraid. Grizzlies and moose scare me, the wolf was just chillin though.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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09-22-2010, 12:08 PM #15
Wyoming's refusal to treat wolves as a trophy species and have a limited season is stupid. They continue to insist on treating wolves as varmint to be shot on site.
Keep em around, but yeah, regulate em a bit. I've seen one wolf in the wild, despite working 2 summers in the Frank Church.
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09-22-2010, 12:12 PM #16
Much prefer cougars.
Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.
Patterson Hood of the DBT's
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09-22-2010, 06:01 PM #17
Wolves are rad.
The only "hunters" who complain about wolves killing all thier game ungulates are lazy puds who are used to dumping a truckbed of apples along the side of a dirt road and plugging some stupid complacent deer the next week.
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09-22-2010, 06:21 PM #18
Wolves are cool but need to be managed using science. They have an unlimited food supply (livestock) and need to be managed so that their numbers do not get out of control. Montana's quota of 75 last year was a joke. They are good for the elk population, put they have thinned the herd well below its carrying capacity, at least in the mountains around Gardiner.
I love big dumps.
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09-22-2010, 06:32 PM #19
Actually joined Defenders of the Wildlife because they had a program to reimburse cattle ranchers for any livestock that was killed by wolves. There was also a movement to reintroduce wolves into the Idaho-Montana area(Sawtooth Pack) that has been very successful(too successful?).
Wolf and man have always been competitors for the same food, hence the reason there has always been conflict. I think that they display very similar personality traits as well...
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09-22-2010, 06:32 PM #20
You're asking me?
Living vicariously through myself.
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09-22-2010, 07:01 PM #21
Humans.....whadya think about 'em?
" have another hit of sweet california sunshine"
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09-22-2010, 07:07 PM #22
^^^^ I am with Mock. Humans, what a fuckin waste of time.
But there were already a few threads on this topic that went many pages. Looking at pictures of dead wolves with fucking hunters geeking for a photo gets my blood a boilin. Lucky I am not a fucking vigilante wolf lover, or those cock suckers would be dead.
edit for drunk grammer
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09-22-2010, 07:08 PM #23princess
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- Hilly and snowy place
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sounds like more than a few of you have never been horse camping and watched a picketed horse become surrounded by a pack of howling predators with blood in their eyes. innocent, cute, sweet little puppy dogs they are not.
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09-22-2010, 07:09 PM #24
Unfortunately, very little in the way of natural resources gets managed using science. Emotion, greed, politics, and money are the driving forces behind most natural resource management.
I used to not like them much, but then I got this great recipe.
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09-22-2010, 07:16 PM #25
You mean they thinned it to carrying capacity. The lack of these predators creates a situation where the herd exceeds the carrying capacity of the ecosystem = an unhealthy herd. Numbers are artificially high without the wolves, with the wolves it is more of a natural situation.
What you said about an unlimited food supply is significant though. Without having to deal with the natural cyclical nature of wild game populations, wolves will increase in population at an unnatural rate. They pretty much have to be hunted at this point (or until livestock depredation is no longer a factor) for their own protection as a population.
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