Thread: Dynafit TLT 5 Boot

Obvious there is a lot of want-to-own factor in the TLT5 P. Still I really had other investments planed this winter.
So curious about the 2012-2013 version, anyone knows more for sure if the TLT5 is going the same way as the DY.N.A. EVO regarding the removal of the actiflex bellow?
If not, maybe one could reconsider the economic priorities.

I just came home from myfirst 5 days in the TLT5P. Unfortunatly no touring, but just from walking around town and comparing range of movement to my Titans I can say that they are great! But that you know...
I was, as you seem to be, concerned about the actiflex making the boot flex when skiing. Naturally it was the first thing I tried to sense, taking the first few turns. And yes, its very noticeable. Almost annoying. But as with everything, you get used to it after a couple of runs and I now only really notice it when the ski gets really deflected by heavy snow or when I really lean forward. Contemplating the Wildsnow-fix, but really hesitant to drill such a expensive boot and totally void the warranty.
I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker, because it skis amazingly well for what it is. But, if you already have an AT-boot and have other gear to buy this season, then I would maybe wait.

I guess since a massive amount of the everyone that skied the TLT5 don't really think that the actiflex bothered them THAT much, it can't be that bad. But then again the people over at WS and elsewhere wouldn't be making their lock-out mods. I think Lou's bent-nail version of the lock-out, looks like the most interesting alternative since it's reversible and simple.
Still it would be really interesting to know if the bellows gonna go. I keep my fingers crossed that someone have some secret info. Or that it maybe will appear on WS with their euro trip coming up.

Acti-Flex doesn't bother me a bit on the downhills* and I really like it for skinning, hiking and scrambling. Lou's fix is likely temporary because the frontmost rivet on TLT 5's eventually shears and the head pops off. Lou's fix may actually accelerate that failure. Both of mine sheared after 25 days of touring.

*Note that I lessened the forward lean by machining a new lean-lock plate which results in ca. 3 degrees less FL. That might be one reason the Acti-Flex doesn't bother me.

Do you think the shearing of the frontmost rivet is really inevitable? Granted I don’t weigh much, but I have 77 days on my TLT5 so far (and 82 on the DyNA, although that might be a slightly different design) with no problems.
The one problem I did notice recently was some pulling away on the stitches of the cut-out section / flex zone of the liner. I suspect the cause was my carelessly pulling on the upper portion when removing the liners from the shell for drying (as the pulling away has occurred on the left side of each liner, reflecting my right hand dominance, as opposed to any skiing asymmetry).
Fortunately the local cobbler says that $10 will stitch it up all tight again.
But if anyone is really that unhappy with the original TF liner in the cf TLT5 Performance in a size 26.0/26.5, then I would be happy to give them a new home!

machining a new lean-lock plate which results in ca. 3 degrees less FL

I searched a bit, and I think I remember you said you did this, but did you post about this? I looked at mine, and can see that it actually wouldn't be a huge deal to do, except you must have cut the hole in the boot a bit longer height-wise. Correct?

Just put in some thought, but I don't really think that the weight savings of the DyNa Evo vs. the original DyNa can be extrapolated to a TLT5 w/o actiflex, based solely on physical appearance (rather than further optimizing materials and thicknesses).

The DyNa Evo doesn't have the "cap" above the toebox like the DyNa and TLT5. A TLT5 w/o actiflex would still have to have this cap (like the Vulcan does, even though it has no flex zone) for the removable tongue.

Who knows, maybe the actiflex adds some elasticity to an otherwise stiff setup (carbon cuffs + metal on metal binding contact).

new PDG on there at 790gr claimed.
http://gearjunkie.com/outdoor-retail...ar-winter-2012

EDIT: Add on some grams for fittings for the tongue, to approximate the weight of a bellowless TLT5. Weight savings of maybe 150g per boot, not really worth busting a nut over.

PDG stands for Patrol de Glacier which Dynafit is now sponsoring; it's an entry level/cheaper race boot, no tongue afaik.

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

Do you think the shearing of the frontmost rivet is really inevitable?

Sure seems that way to me. It's Al alloy, I think, thus prone to fatigue failure (if the rivet head doesn't first abrade off). Both of mine popped off within two tours of each other. I've seen replacement rivets or bolts/nuts on most TLT5s with any noticable wear on them. Easy to replace, and shearing does not disable the boot so it's not a biggie. Lou's proposed locking system (wholly unnecessary IMO) puts a direct shear vector on on the rivet head. Not a good idea IMV. IMO a beefier rivet is indicated. It shouldn't be an issue with the new One boots, which omit the ActiFlex gizmo.

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

The one problem I did notice recently was some pulling away on the stitches of the cut-out section / flex zone of the liner.

My liners exploded there. I posted about it a couple weeks ago. SNA sent me new liners

Is there any reason to carry replacement rivets for the frontmost rivet in a repair kit? If so, what should they be?

Probably not necessary for a day tour. Not a bad idea for a longer tour because the absence of the rivet seems to transport stress to the two side rivets. I used a 8-32 (I think) hex panhead bolt and nylock nut.

I've used my TLT 5 Mountains a few times now and I love them except for one thing - as the cuff rotates rearward the liner applies some pressure to the back of my achilles where the liner bends/folds at the back of the leg, so after about 500m up, I develop painful sores on the back of my legs, about 3 inches above the heel. I normally use liner socks, oversocks and a healthy dose of vaseline to minimize friction. Anyone else have this problem? and the solution?

cmca., only thing I can think of is that you are wearing too many/thick socks. I can't think of a skier who wears that much on his feet unless maybe in Alaska.

cmcraild, I've been rubbed raw on my Achilles tendon by the flex zone liner thingy on the TFX liner, although not as bad as you report. You might try treating it like a blister-prone area, i.e., clean carefully, paint on some tincture of benzoin and then tape with Kinesio tape (stretch vertical). I did that on a few multi-day tours.

I'm now trying Intuition Dream Liners. No rubbing on my Achilles tendon, so that might be a solution for you. The Dream liners result in slightly less ROM but not an issue for mid-winter trips. I'll likely use my replacement (thank you, Salewa NA) TFX liners for spring tours when I do more hiking and scrambling.

ETA: +1 to harpo's recommendation against layering socks. Use one thin ski sock or one thin VB sock.

Hey Guys, thanks for the tips. Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem. Advice over here (munich area) is to layer socks to minimize friction, which seems to help my ankles, but no effect on the back of my legs with the pressure point.

What would be helpful is to have some kind of plastic piece that distributes the pressure across a bigger area. In any event I'll give the single socks and tape a go. Failing that, looks like I'm going for the Intuitions.

I would not layer socks inside an AT boot. IME, ski boots work best with one thin ski sock. Have you tried duck taping the flex zone?

Originally Posted by skiitsbetter

new PDG on there at 790gr claimed.
http://gearjunkie.com/outdoor-retail...ar-winter-2012

I realize this is aimed at the entry level race crowd, but as an average BC skier, this is almost the perfect boot (sure, a bit pricy @ $850 but I'll pay for a good boot). If Federico is around... I'm wondering what the cuff height is going to be on this vs the TLT5P. Also, I could try going sans tongue, but if you could put a single tongue on there, and raise the cuff height a little bit, I would buy these things at full retail in a heartbeat.

Would it be possible to get one of those triangular tongue mounts from a TLT5 and epoxy/rivet it on myself?

Torn between buying a pair of tlt5p's now, even with the actiflex, or waiting to see what these look like compared to the tlt5's

My understanding as to why Dyna hasn't made a TLT5 without the actiflex but with the tongue is that most of the extra weight in TLT5 (after you take out the tongue) comes from the triangular tongue mount, not the actiflex. Therefore, if you make a TLT5 without the actiflex, it would have less slop in downhill mode but you wouldn't save much weight unless you went without the tongue, and they already make that boot.

Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier

My understanding as to why Dyna hasn't made a TLT5 without the actiflex but with the tongue is that most of the extra weight in TLT5 (after you take out the tongue) comes from the triangular tongue mount, not the actiflex. Therefore, if you make a TLT5 without the actiflex, it would have less slop in downhill mode but you wouldn't save much weight unless you went without the tongue, and they already make that boot.

^This. I've been skiing (187 manaslus) and racing (160cm girl's skis) with my TLT5's NO tongue and NO powerstrap. Definitely interested in either some PDG's or some EVO's for next year.

But... for a real world weight, 770gr (27.5) vs. 680gr claimed (27.0 = same shell as 27.5?)? Come on Federico almost 100g off for a $1600 boot! Really makes me wonder how about the real world weight of the PDG...

http://travisscheefer.blogspot.com/2...boots-and.html

I've lifted a pair and they feel really light, but grams are grams when you are stacking up against PG, Scarpa, LaSportiva, etc...

Originally Posted by skiitsbetter

But... for a real world weight, 770gr (27.5) vs. 680gr claimed (27.0 = same shell as 27.5?)? Come on Federico almost 100g off for a $1600 boot! Really makes me wonder how about the real world weight of the PDG...
.

Yeah seems standard for gear weight specs these days
Recently bought an 8oz shelter that actually weighs 11oz
And the 450gram shell I bought actually weighs 528 grams.

So percentage wise the dynafit boot is good !!!!

FWIW my 27.5 tlt5 p weighs 1128 grams on my scale

Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier

My understanding as to why Dyna hasn't made a TLT5 without the actiflex but with the tongue is that most of the extra weight in TLT5 (after you take out the tongue) comes from the triangular tongue mount, not the actiflex. Therefore, if you make a TLT5 without the actiflex, it would have less slop in downhill mode but you wouldn't save much weight unless you went without the tongue, and they already make that boot.

I guess I forgot to say that it's not so much the weight of the actiflex that I care about, but the durability issues (rivets seem to be expected to fail) and softening of the boot (not to mention it seems like it would leak like a sieve with creek crossings, anybody have any experience with this?), overall just another point of failure that I could do without.

So when you say they already make "that boot", which one are you talking about? the $1600 evo? That's why I like the pdg so much - you get many of the benefits of the evo, for almost half the price (I've seen $850 mentioned a couple times on here and wildsnow), I'd just like to see it with a tongue and full height cuff (if it isn't already), which seems like it could be done with less than 1000g total weight. Otherwise there's the "one" and vulcan/mercury boots, all of which are up around 1500g, per wildsnow.

So here are the key stats that I'm looking for -

~1000g or less
-TLT5P stiffness/flex
-no actiflex
-with tongue (or at least a quality, built in gaiter/snow shield to make the boot truly useful in other than race conditions... maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but it seems like liners would get soaked if you were booting in deep snow in the pdg/evo, what are your thoughts on this, skiitsbetter?)
-replaceableor more durable bushing on cuff pivot!

Does this exist?

speaking of the weight of the tongue & mount - there's got to be a way to lighten the whole thing up, like molding a smaller mount into the plastic shell instead of a riveted mount, ala scarpa laser/matrix/spirit. Then use some sort of carbon or lighter material in the tongue?

I realize there are a lot of challenges and tradeoffs that I'm not aware of, so I'm not bagging on dynafit, just throwing ideas out.

Originally Posted by plugboots

I searched a bit, and I think I remember you said you [machined and installed a DIY lean lock plate with ca. 3* less forward lean], but did you post about this? I looked at mine, and can see that it actually wouldn't be a huge deal to do, except you must have cut the hole in the boot a bit longer height-wise. Correct?

Roll up the post #726 for pics of how I did it.

I see now you're comment. check the weight of the 27! the 27,5 has a different shell, the EVO has a different fit and therefore shell scale. 26,5 and 27 are on the same shell. By the way same reference used by other companies on this kind of products.

Originally Posted by skiitsbetter

^This. I've been skiing (187 manaslus) and racing (160cm girl's skis) with my TLT5's NO tongue and NO powerstrap. Definitely interested in either some PDG's or some EVO's for next year.

But... for a real world weight, 770gr (27.5) vs. 680gr claimed (27.0 = same shell as 27.5?)? Come on Federico almost 100g off for a $1600 boot! Really makes me wonder how about the real world weight of the PDG...

http://travisscheefer.blogspot.com/2...boots-and.html

I've lifted a pair and they feel really light, but grams are grams when you are stacking up against PG, Scarpa, LaSportiva, etc...

A discussion on that topic will be too long and complex. By the way it's not easy like you describe it.
Ciao

Originally Posted by awake1563

I guess I forgot to say that it's not so much the weight of the actiflex that I care about, but the durability issues (rivets seem to be expected to fail) and softening of the boot (not to mention it seems like it would leak like a sieve with creek crossings, anybody have any experience with this?), overall just another point of failure that I could do without.

So when you say they already make "that boot", which one are you talking about? the $1600 evo? That's why I like the pdg so much - you get many of the benefits of the evo, for almost half the price (I've seen $850 mentioned a couple times on here and wildsnow), I'd just like to see it with a tongue and full height cuff (if it isn't already), which seems like it could be done with less than 1000g total weight. Otherwise there's the "one" and vulcan/mercury boots, all of which are up around 1500g, per wildsnow.

So here are the key stats that I'm looking for -

~1000g or less
-TLT5P stiffness/flex
-no actiflex
-with tongue (or at least a quality, built in gaiter/snow shield to make the boot truly useful in other than race conditions... maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but it seems like liners would get soaked if you were booting in deep snow in the pdg/evo, what are your thoughts on this, skiitsbetter?)
-replaceableor more durable bushing on cuff pivot!

Does this exist?

speaking of the weight of the tongue & mount - there's got to be a way to lighten the whole thing up, like molding a smaller mount into the plastic shell instead of a riveted mount, ala scarpa laser/matrix/spirit. Then use some sort of carbon or lighter material in the tongue?

I realize there are a lot of challenges and tradeoffs that I'm not aware of, so I'm not bagging on dynafit, just throwing ideas out.