Dynafit TLT 5 Boot

[gregL]

Nothing currently on the market compares to the TLT 5 boots for walkability/skinability. If you want to save some money, the Maestrale is a distant second in this department but "bargain" priced these days at $599 retail.

Try a 28.

[harpo-the-skier]

I wear a 9-10.5 street shoe and a 44 in the La Sportiva Trango series, and 27.0 fits me like a glove.

Anyone know about crampon compatibility of the TLT5 series? I have aluminum crampons (Camp XLC 390) with an aluminum bar between the toe and heel of the crampon that I used with my previous AT boots. On Camp's advise, I got a spring steel bar to use with those crampons when I use them with mountaineering boots that have a flexible sole. Camp also reccomends the spring steel plate when using the crampons with tele boots with bellows. Camp says the aluminum connector bars could fatigue and fail if used with flexible soles.

With the proto bellows adding flex to the sole of the TLT5, should I use the aluminum bars or the spring steel bars?

I read the whole thread and other reviews on this boot - looks like the TLT 5 Mountain is a great option for my planned 250 mile Sierra "ski hike" - I don't care much for downhill performance (heavy backpack, and I am not the most experienced skier), but to traverse the terrain I will need to use ski and boots that walk/climb really well. It's just that these boots are so darn expensive compared to the BD Primes - can anyone compare these for me when it comes to cuff movement and general walking/climbing performance, crampon use, etc - basically, I need the boot with the best performance in anything but downhill use, as that will be the least of my problems. I will be in those boots for almost 3 weeks and may even have to hike on dry ground at times. I have Dynafit bindings on Atomic Kailas ski.

Dynafit sizing? I wear a 10.5 (tight) -11 (loose) sized street shoe, and a Euro size 45 La Sportiva Mountaineering boots. 28? Got no ski stores in the area (Wisconsin) where I can try them on - only REI and they don't carry anything in the lightweight AT boot class.

[nate s]

You surely don't need to spend a grand to have a suitable boot. Dynafit has made different versions of the tlt 4 for a long time. Find a used pair and enjoy your trip. You might also try a scarpa f1 or f3, if you don't mind the bellows.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Fishmonger, get some f1's on eBay.

[LeeLau]

You surely don't need to spend a grand to have a suitable boot. Dynafit has made different versions of the tlt 4 for a long time. Find a used pair and enjoy your trip. You might also try a scarpa f1 or f3, if you don't mind the bellows.

yah I agree with nate. Really for fishmonger fit is the most important thing. It sounds like a cool trip. Kind of like a big glacier traverse but without glaciers. Unfortunately it sounds like you can't check fit before you go? That sounds to me armchair quarterbacking this that you're skipping a super important step.

The F1 hikes very well. So do the old TLT4s. You don't need bling to do this kind of trip. You need old familiar trusted gear that is field-repairable. Not a new pair of boots necessarily.

[Fishmonger]

Fishmonger, get some f1's on eBay.

I saw those - new liners and I am in business?

what about the "shims" the Scarpa boots need?

warm is an issue, too, and I read the Primes are nice and wide in front and will be warmer. 2+ weeks out there with cold feet may not be worth saving a pound for.

good info on sizing - 28 should be perfect for me, possibly a bit large, but that's the only size I can actually buy the TLT5's in. Haven't seen a used TLT4 in a month of looking.

crampons - good question. Don't know about the 390s, although I have been looking at getting them for this trip. I currenlty have some old chouinard steel crampons that aren't even step-in, but with their straps they will would work for sure, unless my finger are too frozen to strap them on.

[harpo-the-skier]

F, I have a pair of shims for using with F1/F3's and Comforts that I will send to you for beer money plus shipping.

I saw those - new liners and I am in business?

what about the "shims" the Scarpa boots need?

warm is an issue, too, and I read the Primes are nice and wide in front and will be warmer. 2+ weeks out there with cold feet may not be worth saving a pound for.

good info on sizing - 28 should be perfect for me, possibly a bit large, but that's the only size I can actually buy the TLT5's in. Haven't seen a used TLT4 in a month of looking.

crampons - good question. Don't know about the 390s, although I have been looking at getting them for this trip. I currenlty have some old chouinard steel crampons that aren't even step-in, but with their straps they will would work for sure, unless my finger are too frozen to strap them on.

[Fishmonger]

yah I agree with nate. Really for fishmonger fit is the most important thing. It sounds like a cool trip. Kind of like a big glacier traverse but without glaciers. Unfortunately it sounds like you can't check fit before you go? That sounds to me armchair quarterbacking this that you're skipping a super important step.

The F1 hikes very well. So do the old TLT4s. You don't need bling to do this kind of trip. You need old familiar trusted gear that is field-repairable. Not a new pair of boots necessarily.

well, I will not do the big trip this April - I am heading out there for a smaller test trip in '11, then adjust gear and do the full traverse in April '12. At least that is the plan right now. May change if I find a companion who really wants to go in 2011.

The F1s have been on my shortlist - and there's a used 28.0 pair on ebay right now. May just start with those and see how that works. I just don't want the bellows to crack in the middle of the big trip. For this spring, that may be all I need. The BD Primes look like they are stiffer, but they are much less complicated in terms of design and still pretty light. Supposed to be very warm, too.

[Fishmonger]

It sounds like a cool trip. Kind of like a big glacier traverse but without glaciers.

here's what inspired me - 1999 gear did it already, so yeah, I don't need the latest and greatest:
http://www.jamesalutz.com/index_JMT1.htm

I've done that trail something like 15 times in spring through fall, but it's time to see it when nobody else is there.

regarding liners - Are the TLT5 mountain's TF-X liners thermo moldable? From Frederico's comment on page 9 I take they are not, but backcountry.com states they are moldable.

[GeezerSteve]

Nothing currently on the market compares to the TLT 5 boots for walkability/skinability

Have you tried F1's or F3's, Greg? I haven't tried the TLT5 -- got some TLT5 Mtn on order a MMW, and if they every arrive I'll find out how they compare to F3's. IMV, whether a rigid AT boot (yeah, okay, the TLT5 has a protobellows, but it's not going to flex anything like an F1/F3) will walk and skin as well as a bellowed boot is to some extent a matter of personal physiology. I'm a ball of foot guy, and if the TLT5 is anywhere close to my F3's for walking and skinning, I'll be happy.

. . . scarpa f1 or f3, if you don't mind the bellows.

Mind 'em? Hell, I love them, even though my F3 bellows are starting to develop cracks.

I just don't want the bellows to crack in the middle of the big trip

I wouldn't worry. I've got 100+ abusive days on my F3's, skinning, hiking and scrambling. The bellows cracking -- currently minor -- seems to be largely caused by abrading against rocks and ski edges, not a materials flaw.

[gregL]

Have you tried F1's or F3's, Greg?

I've owned two pair of F1's, and never experienced an issue with bellows cracking, but they were spring/summer boots and I probably didn't put as many days in them as you in your F3's. I did carry a spare cable around for years, though I never needed it. As Lee and others with better memories than I point out, they certainly do work well for flat or rolling skinning and hiking.

I ordered a pair of F3's at one point, and wore them around the house a bit, but returned them because of binding mount issues (didn't want to re-drill two pair of Trabs). I think you'll find the flex comparable to the TLT 5 Mountains in terms of skiing performance (with the TLT 5 M being slightly more supportive); I find myself using heel lifters more with the TLT's as the F1 bellows accomodated almost any angle (I used to just cut off the posts on my Speeds), though with the rearward travel on the TLT 5 you can just leave the bindings on the "high" level and still be comfortable on flatish or rolling terrain. The TLT 5 boots are not as much like walking in trail runners as the F1/F3 (you don't roll off the ball of your foot) - the flex is barely noticeable in the forefoot, but the rearward cuff mobility is better and they are still extremely effective.

I think there may be something to the idea that you are actually losing a bit of energy on each stride due to bellows flex - also with the TLT 5 you can kick your ski further forward and lengthen your normal stride without incurring much more aerobic debt.

[hilmersen]

...I don't care much for downhill performance (heavy backpack, and I am not the most experienced skier)...

Just a word of caution, which might not apply as I do not know anything about the trip you're going on: it is not the good skier that needs a stiffer boot, it is the inexperienced skier that isn't allways in balance. I used to have the tlt4. I did some nice skiing on them, including the Haute Route, but my more inexperienced friends had huge problems with them as they gave no support when they ended skiing in the backseat. With stiffer boots the same friends are able the hide their imbalance.
If the trip you are going on is a pure ski-hiking trip you might also consider nordic mountain touring equipment such as the Åsnes Nansen or Amundsen link with the Alfa Skarvet boots. or mountain ski hiking that is the prefered equipment over here (Norway). The "short skins" really help when covering a lot of distance.

[Fishmonger]

Regarding the nodic ski - I already have AT ski with dynafit bindings, just need a light and flexible boot (boots that walk well on ski, work with snow shoes, can cross a small stream without getting me all wet and in general are comfortable enough that I may be able to hike in them on snow and solid ground if I have to. The ski part is only important for the speed - I need to cover 15-18 miles a day. I am bringing snow shoes as backup for terrain I don't want to ski, and that's maybe 5-10 miles total over the entire trip, never more than a mile. Some areas will be so gnarly in winter, it's goig to be crampons and ice axe anyway.

[GeezerSteve]

Fishmonger, sounds like an adventure! F1 would be my boot of choice for that sort of trip.

[Plinko]

Fish,

I've owned 4 generations of F1's. Never had any issue with bellows cracking, etc.

Yeah, I own the TLT5 Performance too.

Buy the F1's. They're FAR more affordable for what you plan to do. If, once you've used them, you still find yourself wanting more rearward articulation, pull the tongues out. If you still need more articulation, a simple mod is to used a dremmel tool or knife to trim a centimeter or two off the rear of the ankle cuff piece at the lower edge. Easy to do and in no way compromises your downhill performance. Another easy mod is to pull the cable and replace with easily serviceable 3mm cord. PM me for a shim solution that's far lighter than the stock Scarpa Brick shim.

The TLT5 only gives you slightly better articulation in your mode. It's biggest strength (besides the great articulation in tour mode) is the stiffness in ski mode. Since that's not a priority for you, there's no need to spend the dough. Go for the F1's and save your coin for something else on the shopping list.

Oh and try to stay outta the water (Day 14 stream crossing).

Here's another TR from this millennia: http://www.silvertipmountaincenter.com/JMT.html

BTW, if anyone needs some Scarpa F1's in 28.5/29.0, gimme a holler.

[Plinko]

Anyone know about crampon compatibility of the TLT5 series? I have aluminum crampons (Camp XLC 390) with an aluminum bar between the toe and heel of the crampon that I used with my previous AT boots. On Camp's advise, I got a spring steel bar to use with those crampons when I use them with mountaineering boots that have a flexible sole. Camp says the aluminum connector bars could fatigue and fail if used with flexible soles.

With the proto bellows adding flex to the sole of the TLT5, should I use the aluminum bars or the spring steel bars?

Yes, TLT5's fit Camp XLC 390 perfectly. The flex of the proto bellows is much much less than a mountaineering boot or tele boot. When worn, it's felt, but so minimal that it's difficult to even see with the naked eye when flexing. I'd stick with the aluminum bars (unless you're climbing water ice, in which case, the XLC390's would be the wrong pons to bring anyway). Mine were dialed to fit Scarpa F1 (29.0) at 318mm BSL. Required zero adjustment for TLT5's (29.0) at 317mm.

[harpo-the-skier]

Fish, if you end up with the F1, I have a spare parts kit for the F1 I put together for extended trips that I would sell you for beer money plus shipping. It includes a spare cable for the upper cuff closure, a few nails that are the right size for the foward lean lever, and some other parts that I don't remember but that Scarpa reccomended I get. PM me for more info.

P, thanks for the info about the crampons.

Fish,

I've owned 4 generations of F1's. Never had any issue with bellows cracking, etc.

Yeah, I own the TLT5 Performance too.

Buy the F1's. They're FAR more affordable for what you plan to do. If, once you've used them, you still find yourself wanting more rearward articulation, pull the tongues out. If you still need more articulation, a simple mod is to used a dremmel tool or knife to trim a centimeter or two off the rear of the ankle cuff piece at the lower edge. Easy to do and in no way compromises your downhill performance. Another easy mod is to pull the cable and replace with easily serviceable 3mm cord. PM me for a shim solution that's far lighter than the stock Scarpa Brick shim.

The TLT5 only gives you slightly better articulation in your mode. It's biggest strength (besides the great articulation in tour mode) is the stiffness in ski mode. Since that's not a priority for you, there's no need to spend the dough. Go for the F1's and save your coin for something else on the shopping list.

Oh and try to stay outta the water (Day 14 stream crossing).

Here's another TR from this millennia: http://www.silvertipmountaincenter.com/JMT.html

BTW, if anyone needs some Scarpa F1's in 28.5/29.0, gimme a holler.

[Fishmonger]

Fish,

I've owned 4 generations of F1's. Never had any issue with bellows cracking, etc.

Yeah, I own the TLT5 Performance too.

Buy the F1's. They're FAR more affordable for what you plan to do. If, once you've used them, you still find yourself wanting more rearward articulation, pull the tongues out. If you still need more articulation, a simple mod is to used a dremmel tool or knife to trim a centimeter or two off the rear of the ankle cuff piece at the lower edge. Easy to do and in no way compromises your downhill performance. Another easy mod is to pull the cable and replace with easily serviceable 3mm cord. PM me for a shim solution that's far lighter than the stock Scarpa Brick shim.

The TLT5 only gives you slightly better articulation in your mode. It's biggest strength (besides the great articulation in tour mode) is the stiffness in ski mode. Since that's not a priority for you, there's no need to spend the dough. Go for the F1's and save your coin for something else on the shopping list.

Oh and try to stay outta the water (Day 14 stream crossing).

Here's another TR from this millennia: http://www.silvertipmountaincenter.com/JMT.html

great info on the F1's - just as this comes in from you, I find a pair of TLT 4's on ebay that may just be my size. So I have another option, but the F1's listed are my first try. Looks like I'll need a new liner and then consider do a few mods like you suggest. I'll get back to you on the shims should I win that auction.

Saving myself the $$$ on the boots is going to help a lot - I still need a new tent, a -20 degree sleeping bag, a new shell, new poles, and tons of small items. I want to be near 100% equipped this April for a test trip, so I can adjust what needs to be adjusted for the 2012 trip.

Water crossings on the JMT - there are two streams that are always a problem (Evolution and Bear Creek). Those two are shoes and pants off even in July. The report you link to is very useful - lots of info on what to expect regarding conditions. Love the extra photos of places you rarely see photographed during that time of year (but places I know very well, allowing me to gauge what I am getting myself into).

[Fishmonger]

Fish, if you end up with the F1, I have a spare parts kit for the F1

we'll know soon. thanks for the offer.

new listing on ebay today - new in box TLT 5 Performance in 27.0 for $800... too small, too expensive for me, but somebody else may want them.

[hilmersen]

.... can cross a small stream without getting me all wet...

Sounds like the tlt4 with the gore-tex liner would be perfect!

[AweShuksan]

We're processing backorders as fast as we can from the shipment that came in right after Christmas so you may see it in a couple of days; otherwise, if your order isn't covered we're getting another shipment mid January (meaning in your hands 3rd/4th week of Jan.) that should cover existing orders on TLT5's in most sizes.

What do you mean by "most sizes"? The only size I care about is the size I ordered back in October of last year (30.5). It's beginning to look like Dynafit may have a structural issue with the larger boot sizes (otherwise they would have shipped some 29's and 30's). I ordered a few days before a Dynafit order cut-off so I expected to have them by now.

Retailers ordered really cautiously on the TLT5's so Dynafit did their production run based on estimates around those preseason orders; demand blew up and we've been covering backorders with every shipment that comes in. We're making them as fast as we can, I promise.

Yes, except that I ordered my size before the pre-season order but have been told that no size 30's were shipped (and I have not heard of any 29's shipping either).

What's up with that?

[GeezerSteve]

Still waiting to hear from MMW re the 30.5MP TLT5 Mtn I ordered a couple months ago

[Prodigy]

Still waiting to hear from MMW re the 30.5MP TLT5 Mtn I ordered a couple months ago

I get angry calls from Lock once a week (feels like it anyways) about his TLT5 backorders. Trust me, he's on top of it. We want to get them in your hands just as much as you do.

What do you mean by "most sizes"? The only size I care about is the size I ordered back in October of last year (30.5). It's beginning to look like Dynafit may have a structural issue with the larger boot sizes (otherwise they would have shipped some 29's and 30's). I ordered a few days before a Dynafit order cut-off so I expected to have them by now.


Yes, except that I ordered my size before the pre-season order but have been told that no size 30's were shipped (and I have not heard of any 29's shipping either).

What's up with that?

Part 1) Some sizes have tons of existing orders to fulfill, some sizes have fewer. That influences how many boots in a particular size we get and therefore whether or not we can cover all of those existing orders on the next shipment.

Part 2)Yes, it sucks, I can only reiterate that we're doing as much as we can but if I don't have a single boot in the country available to sell, there's not much I can do. I do know that we got some 29's and 30's on the last shipment and I'm sure we'll be getting more so take heart. Like I said, if you're not already covered, odds are your boots are on the next shipment, which will be coming in around the 15th. Plus, I hear this whole 'delayed gratification' thing builds character.

[Plinko]

What do you mean by "most sizes"? The only size I care about is the size I ordered back in October of last year (30.5). It's beginning to look like Dynafit may have a structural issue with the larger boot sizes (otherwise they would have shipped some 29's and 30's). I ordered a few days before a Dynafit order cut-off so I expected to have them by now.

Yes, except that I ordered my size before the pre-season order but have been told that no size 30's were shipped (and I have not heard of any 29's shipping either).

What's up with that?

The delay is not with the factory, but with the distribution chain, specifically, the US one.

Most of the European stockists have had them for quite some time now (including the illusive "value priced" TLT5 Mountain TF (thermo liner) varient, which will not be sold in the US.

I imagine you've paid on your pre-orders and are locked in; otherwise Sport Conrad and Telemark-Pyrenees have them in stock in both your sizes. Deliveries from them have averaged 5 business days to your mom's bedroom here on the west coast. Even after paying international shipping rates, (and subtracting VAT) you still save over $100 compared to how much Backcountry.com has them listed. It's probably not how Salewa North America, or the local shops want it done, but it works.

[bodywhomper]

I get angry calls from Lock once a week (feels like it anyways) about his TLT5 backorders. Trust me, he's on top of it. We want to get them in your hands just as much as you do.

winlock is a funny guy.