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  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    You can get the tongues out by undoing the buckle and leaving the cable in the slot (so not really completely), but then you have to figure out what to do with them.
    How about putting them back in?

  2. #477
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    Btw, with my 26.0 Zzero and Titan, I needed tons of shell punching and other fitting to get them to fit, though now I love them. The 27.0 TLT5 (after cooking but not using) seem not to need any shell fitting, but are still tight enough. I am using them with a footbed, another good option I probably wouldn't have if I went down a size. The other advantage of going up a size is that the BSL is closer to my old boots, so I don't have to go remount the bindings.

    When my boot fitter did a shell fit for me, he said they forefoot on the shell got wide at just the right place to accomodate my foot, which gets wide a couple of inches behind my 6th toe are. So far he seems right. He was also impressed with the heel pocket of these boots. He was worried about all the moving parts and the potential for failure.

  3. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier View Post
    How about putting them back in?
    Yeah, you can put them back in with both buckles still notched but loose, though it's tricky and the tongues are kind of slippery so you feel like you need to take your gloves off to do it, etc. etc.

    If you're shooting for fast transitions (ie. not taking your gloves off to skin/deskin) it's just one more thing to deal with which is why I've just been leaving them in and moving the power strap back and forth.

  4. #479
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    gregL, I've been doing it both ways without taking off gloves and no hassles. To put them in you need to flex forward, if you are too upright they won't go. Maybe screw around with it at home, once you get the hang of it I bet you are more likely to swap in and out. I find the tongue swap to be faster and less fiddly than the power strap.

    The real hangup is where to put the tongues... this is a situation where the dynafit (or trab) packs with the velcro-closed lower storage compartment are great, you can store them easily without taking your pack off. I hate taking my pack off, if I had to do that I'd either leave the tongues at home or leave them in all the time if I was doing 1500' or shorter laps.

  5. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    this is a situation where the dynafit (or trab) packs with the velcro-closed lower storage compartment are great
    Hey, there's an idea - my regular touring partner has one of those Manaslu packs, I can just stick them in there when he's not looking.

  6. #481
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    P, what's the status of your buckles and power strap for your hassle free tongue changeover?

    Also, I am thinking of attaching the tongues to the outside of my pack with a a light weight locking carabiner through one of the holes at the very top of tongue, or through the girth hitched webbing at the top, which I have secured with some zip ties. Would this work. The carabiner weights just more than 40g.

    I have also played with my boots without the tongue in ski mode - they are pretty damn stiff that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    gregL, I've been doing it both ways without taking off gloves and no hassles. To put them in you need to flex forward, if you are too upright they won't go. Maybe screw around with it at home, once you get the hang of it I bet you are more likely to swap in and out. I find the tongue swap to be faster and less fiddly than the power strap.

    The real hangup is where to put the tongues... this is a situation where the dynafit (or trab) packs with the velcro-closed lower storage compartment are great, you can store them easily without taking your pack off. I hate taking my pack off, if I had to do that I'd either leave the tongues at home or leave them in all the time if I was doing 1500' or shorter laps.

  7. #482
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    Re: the tongue, I've been happy skiing with or without them on the downhill. Today, for example, I skied a south facing line across the road from Alta through breakable crust driving Lotus120s without the tongues in place and the boots (performance version) performed like a champ.

    Put another way, if the only choice is skinning with the tongue in place or skiing downhill without the tongue, I'd choose to leave the tongue in the pack or at home.

  8. #483
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    ^^ definitely,

    the boot is amazing for walking and skinning, i can't imagine leaving the tongue in on the way up. i'd rather leave it at home.

  9. #484
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    harpo, I had the power straps removed until last night, they were getting in the way too much. I was doing a lot of shorter laps in mellow terrain so the transition times mattered more to me. Now the snowpack is deeper and I'm doing longer descents (and less transitions) so I put them back on, but I don't have them integrated into my transition routine yet. Also I cut a bunch of crap off the liner - the velcro strap and the pull-on loops. Not to save weight as much as just to clean things up a bit.

    This description will be possibly overdetailed, mostly so if anyone has tips for me to speed up the transition they can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I mostly ski alone so I haven't watched very many people do transitions.

    I don't change the tightness of the bottom buckle transitioning between climbing and skiing. When you add the tongue it makes the bottom buckle a little bit tighter- for me its luckily exactly the change I want.

    So... arrive at top of skin track.

    1) Rotate dynafit heels and step down to lock.
    2) Cross left ski in front of right foot, reach down with right hand and grab ski so my thumb presses down on the toe lever and unlocks it (i.e. into ski mode) while I am pulling foot up and back a little bit more to make it easier to grab tail of ski
    3) Remove right skin from tail to tip and fold
    4) Repeat 2 & 3 with right ski
    5) Holding both folded skins in L hand, reach back with R hand and get tongues out of bottom compartment in dynafit pack; kind of shuffle the two items from hand to hand and use R hand to stick skins into pack
    6) L tongue is in L hand, R tongue in R hand. Reach towards R boot with both hands. L hand opens lower buckle, using index finger to hold cable in place so the position can't change. R hand pushes tongue down behind top buckle cable and under bottom buckle cable. You need to flex the lower leg forward to get the tongue under the bottom buckle cable.
    7) L hand snaps buckle bottom buckle down while R hand grabs for and locks top buckle. Helps to flex and unflex the ankle a couple times real fast while tightening the top buckle.
    8) Repeat 6 & 7 but on L boot this time.

    I haven't timed it but I'm guessing it clocks in around 90 seconds. I lose a bunch of time folding the skins. Not horrible but considering that video of the rando racer doing a <10 second transition its weak sauce. I guess the tongues add 20-30 seconds at the top transition and a similiar amount at the bottom. The power straps seemed slower and more fiddly which is why I took them off.

    What do people do with velcro power straps, I assume you just fold the long end in half and let it hang while skinning up?

    The biner idea sounds fine, I would check into what ice climbers use to rack ice screws. It would be nice if you could twist the tongues off with one hand rather than having to use two. I don't ice climb but I think they have some weird plastic hook/carabiner things that might work for this? Unless the you have a dynafit pack dealing with the tongues seems pretty ungainly and kind of a PITA.

    Sorry if I'm being a huge nerd about transitions. I try to do them as fast as I can so that I don't get cold, it seems like if you do them fast enough you don't have to fiddle with your clothes at all. If I have to take off my pack my transitions go to 5 minutes, so I'm losing say 3 minutes, two times per lap, which is 6 minutes per lap and a full hour tacked on to a 10 lap day. Screw that, I'm there to ski as much as I can before I run out of time and have to go to work.

  10. #485
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    Sounds like a pretty streamlined routine, Patches.

    You could cut a few seconds on each ski by switching to an elastic tip-fix for your skins so you can rip them racer-style by just sliding your ski back, grabbing the rubber or elastic thing, and pulling back while sliding the ski forward. No need to cross your skis over to grab the tails.

    After watching a couple of videos of really fast guys like Stephane Brosse, it seems that most of them don't worry too much about getting their skins folded perfectly - the Powder Keg transition that Jonathan_S has on YouTube had him just kind of rolling both skins up in a ball as he started to move.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5qDWBvW5QA"]YouTube - Stephan Brosse- Powder Keg Skin-Ski Transition[/nomedia]


    Thanks for the suggestion on flexing forward to get the tongues in - I'll play around with it this week.

    As for power straps, I've been fastening them loosely over just the liner, making sure they are in back of the tongue(s). I also cut off all the velcro on the liner, including the stitched-on part of "hook" . . .

  11. #486
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    Harpo - I am curious what you are using this boot for in your quiver (since I have a pretty good idea of they type and locations of skiing you do)? Don't you also have Titans and Green Machines? How are you breaking down the uses and do you feel this boot overlaps with the Green Machines?

    Just curious.

  12. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer View Post
    Harpo - I am curious what you are using this boot for in your quiver (since I have a pretty good idea of they type and locations of skiing you do)? Don't you also have Titans and Green Machines? How are you breaking down the uses and do you feel this boot overlaps with the Green Machines?

    Just curious.
    UCL,

    Green Machines will be for sale very soon. I will see what price I can get for them; if I can't get enough I will keep them as back up until the durability of the TLT5P is proved. Haven't used the TLT5P's yet (will today), but wearing them around while I was working outside, they where plenty comfortable after cooking (Cosmo is the man, he had already worked on 5 different pairs of the DYNA/TLT5 by the time I got to him). With tongue in and in downhill mode, they felt stiffer than my Green Machines all around. Not as straight foward as the Green Machines switching modes, but that should get easier as I do it more. Wore them around the house with heater packs under the toes they felt comfortable so I am not worried about how warm they are. I am thinking about getting the Intuition Pro Tour from Cosmo and those should also be warmer than the stock liner.

    I expect these to be better than the Green Machines in all respects, except price and availablity.

    Titans I use soley for sidecountry. BTW, the TLT5s are about half the weight of the Titans, the backward flex in walk mode is incredible.

  13. #488
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    Oct 2010
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    Went touring with them yesterday. Forgot one of my buddies skins, so I ended up booting 900m while he skined - very glad I had the tlt5p: they are great for booting. The temperature was -15, 15m/s winds - and no problem with cold going up. A little cold when I got down. The transition was a bit problematic. Ended up, skipping the tounge on the way down, as I was just to cold to handle them...after having done the transition for both my friend and myself. The skiing is ok without the tounge too....so no big loss. One of the reasons I skipped taking them on, was that I was afraid they would blow away...

  14. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier View Post
    UCL,

    Green Machines will be for sale very soon. I will see what price I can get for them; if I can't get enough I will keep them as back up until the durability of the TLT5P is proved. Haven't used the TLT5P's yet (will today), but wearing them around while I was working outside, they where plenty comfortable after cooking (Cosmo is the man, he had already worked on 5 different pairs of the DYNA/TLT5 by the time I got to him). With tongue in and in downhill mode, they felt stiffer than my Green Machines all around. Not as straight foward as the Green Machines switching modes, but that should get easier as I do it more. Wore them around the house with heater packs under the toes they felt comfortable so I am not worried about how warm they are. I am thinking about getting the Intuition Pro Tour from Cosmo and those should also be warmer than the stock liner.

    I expect these to be better than the Green Machines in all respects, except price and availablity.

    Titans I use soley for sidecountry. BTW, the TLT5s are about half the weight of the Titans, the backward flex in walk mode is incredible.
    Thanks Harpo - assumed as much. Figured you would be getting rid of the Green Machines given overlap, and I recall you mentioning you were going to only rock the Titans inbounds or for sidecountry.

    I am just rocking the Titans for everything this year, but with swappable liners (stock TX for inbounds, Pro-Tours for BC). Don't really mind the weight of the Titans, but more importantly I was just trying to see if I could do a single-book quiver all year this year for the helluva it. Did the SHR last year on stock Titans, and wasn't bad. Made up for it with light skis, bindings, pack, etc...

    FWIW - if you want a little info on the Pro-Tours as compared to TX stock liners, see the Titan thread (not to threadjack).

  15. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier View Post
    I am thinking about getting the Intuition Pro Tour from Cosmo and those should also be warmer than the stock line
    At one time I was thinking about putting a ProTour liner in mine, until I realized that the round cut-out in the achilles area of the TLT 5 liners is one of the reasons the rearward mobility is so outstanding.

  16. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    After watching a couple of videos of really fast guys like Stephane Brosse, it seems that most of them don't worry too much about getting their skins folded perfectly - the Powder Keg transition that Jonathan_S has on YouTube had him just kind of rolling both skins up in a ball as he started to move.

    YouTube - Stephan Brosse- Powder Keg Skin-Ski Transition
    Do you know if that is a typical transition or is that the last one (i.e. they're not worried about untangling them)? So badass.

  17. #492
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    Jan 2008
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    Wish the boots we more readily available; esp. the TLT5p!

  18. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    Do you know if that is a typical transition or is that the last one (i.e. they're not worried about untangling them)? So badass.
    That I don't know. But even when they try to fold them neatly, they are pretty damn fast - check out the Italian dude @ 2:48 in this clip:

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9j7lJNNDSk&feature=related"]YouTube - World Ski mountaineering Championships - Cuneo (IT) March 06[/nomedia]


    Then watch them gas the finishing descent through the moguls on their 800 gram skis . . .

  19. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    At one time I was thinking about putting a ProTour liner in mine, until I realized that the round cut-out in the achilles area of the TLT 5 liners is one of the reasons the rearward mobility is so outstanding.
    The pro tours also have a similar cutout in the achilles area, although Cosmo says it is lower down on the Pro Tour than the stock TLT5 liner.

    UCL, more power to you if you can do something like the High Route in your Titans. Me, I need all the help I can get. If you had the TLT5s, you might be doing the HR in 24 hours like Bobskiing? on ttips. After talking to you and Barry about your high route trip last year, I am thinking of signing up for it with ASI to get the tips on light weight camping.

  20. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier View Post
    The pro tours also have a similar cutout in the achilles area
    Yeah, looking at the picture on the Intuition website I see the cutout - kind of a "V" shape.

    The main reason I was thinking about a liner change was the plate and screws I have in my left fibula, which I've always tried to pad with a cushy liner of some sort. Just looking at the thinness of the TLT 5 P liner, I thought it woudn't offer enough padding, but after skiing in it 3 days the stock liner seems totally comfortable, so no need to use anything else.

  21. #496
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    FWIW, I don't think you need the cutout for mobility. Your liner will bend. It might wear out sooner.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  22. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Yeah, looking at the picture on the Intuition website I see the cutout - kind of a "V" shape.

    The main reason I was thinking about a liner change was the plate and screws I have in my left fibula, which I've always tried to pad with a cushy liner of some sort. Just looking at the thinness of the TLT 5 P liner, I thought it woudn't offer enough padding, but after skiing in it 3 days the stock liner seems totally comfortable, so no need to use anything else.
    The only reason I am looking at the Intuition liners is that they are supposed to be warmer than Palau(sp?) Dynafit liner. I have to use heater packs in my Garmont Palau liners in the past on cold days.

    P, thanks for that detailed description of the changeover. Flexing foward, holding the lower buckle open and the wire in place with one hand, and inserting the tongue with the other is working well for me.

    I am using a carabiner on the girth hitched loop to attach the tongues to my pack; I couldn't find a carabiner that would fit through any of holes in the plastic of the tongue.

    How durable is the girth hitched fabric loop? Anyone have trouble with it breatking? Mine is kept in place with a zip tie.

    After one outing, the only thing I have to play with is how tight the top buckle should be in ski mode. With the torx screw in the farthest out/loosest hole, I can't get it tight enough, and vice versa with the next tighter hole.

    Did anyone get a torx scerw driver with their boots?

    No trouble yet with the lowest buckle or too much rubber on the sole.

    With tongue in, these definetly seem stiffer in ski mode than my Zzero 4c's.

  23. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Then watch them gas the finishing descent through the moguls on their 800 gram skis . . .
    The guy at 3:03 is especially inspiring! (Sure, I can ski like with my alpine downhill plug boots and a GS ski or something equally sturdy, and with fresh legs, but on my rando race gear . . . and after redlining a skintrack?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier View Post
    I am using a carabiner on the girth hitched loop to attach the tongues to my pack; I couldn't find a carabiner that would fit through any of holes in the plastic of the tongue.
    The randomly chosen fakabiner I already had attached to my pack fits through the tongue's holes. I've usually been using the fabric loop though, but for longer ascents the extra security of the tongue holes would be merited. (And for easier terrain, I haven't bothered bringing along the tongues in the first place.)

    Quote Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier View Post
    Did anyone get a torx screw driver with their boots?
    The size is standard -- I seem to be fine with slot #3 on the middle setup, but last year I played around with different locations on the DyNA (before I realized that my problem arose from the cord knot slipping a bit, whoops), and I didn't have any problems finding the driver in my various kits. Be sure to use locttite though just in case.

  24. #499
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    Dec 2010
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    Mountains vs Performance

    Seems everyone is skiing the TLT5 Ps. Anyone specifically have the TLT 5 mountains?

    Any comments on how they compare, or is it worth it just to save up for the Carbon Performance?

    Thanks

  25. #500
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    ^^^ Did you even read this thread? There's a lot of info if you search.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

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