Dynafit TLT 5 Boot

[Patches]

Patches (or anyone else who has skied them) - Do you notice the Actiflex while skiing? Does it make them feely mushy or soft? What about the buckles, did you find them to be reasonably easy to use and adequate (I think I mentioned before, I totally got the cuff buckle stuck while carpet testing them, I nearly had a panic attack thinking I was going to have to go to work in ski boots....)

The buckles are genius, I love them. On the top buckle you have to pressure BACK a little bit with your leg to undo it. This is the opposite of every other touring boot I've used. The more you lean forward in most other boots the easier they undo, so you might have done so reflexively and made it harder than it needed to be.

I can't feel the Actiflex at all.

[gillesleskieur]

i find the actiflex to be barely noticeable in dh mode. and just the right amount of flex in walk mode.
same as Patches for the buckles.

[hilmersen]

Another run today, and some skinning.
Skinning, I felt I should have slimmer skis in order to in order to get something that resembles kick-and-glide.
Skiing without the tounge they skied adequately for something like the haute-route, or when you just have to get down fast with as little hassle as possible.
Got to ski some steeps with the tounge - no problem. The setup feels more like my alpine setup than the zzero, With the zzero you can feel every little bump, with the tlt5 the small bumps seems to be leveled out....so skiing hardpack is more comfortable.

[andybrnr]

Question for Federico or others... so first, I get to admit my own idiocy in that I misremembered my ZZero4C shell size and have skied the last two seasons thinking I was in a 27 when I was actually in a 26, which is a pretty snug fit for me, but with a little boot tweaking has proven comfortable. Based on my faulty recollection, I ordered TLT5P in 27. I just got Mustagh Ata SL 178s and have them currently configured for the ZZero4s, and was planning on just adjusting the bindings down for the TLT5P. Now that MMW in Bellevue has a few more sizes in of the TLT5 Mountains, I tried the out of box fit with both the 26 and 27 shell... 27 feels a bit loose, the 26 a bit tight. I'd shift to the 26 for the sportier fit, but realized that with Vert ST bindings in the smallest mounting holes on the Mustagh ATA SLs, the BSL for the 26 TLT5P shell is smaller than will work without drilling new mounting holes, which I know Federico has said is not super recommended. So which is the lesser of two evils, here... making a slightly larger shell size work, or drilling the skis?

[LeeLau]

So which is the lesser of two evils, here... making a slightly larger shell size work, or drilling the skis?

Drill the skis. Do not compromise your feet. Don't do fifty foot backslap airs with the Mustagh Ata and it'll go well

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I do not like those inserts. They are easy to strip and don't offer enough flexibility in terms of mounting location.

[bjorjost]

Got my first trip on the TLT5 Performance in yesterday, here in Jostedalen, Norway.
Some Impressions:
1.27,5 zzero are wider at the top than 27,5 tlt5, pinches at the arch for me before molding the liner, much better after the molding, but i'll do it again with more padding around the arch. Still tight. The length and toebox seems similar to my zzeros 27,5.
2. Tight getting into, zzeros normally i step into with liner in shell, tlt5: liner on first, then shell, probably due to deep heel slot and soft zone on the achilles area on the tlt5 liners.
3. When i started walking, wow, we did a bit of an approach on flats first, excelling here the tlt5's were. Also the boot become more comfy while skinning, alot of movement back and forth works your foot, and the little movement at the toe seems to help comfort as well as stride(a little.)
4.The only ski that had dynafit's I could make small enough was praxis powder 185. Not the best to test glide and stride...nor skating back the flats...The praxis also left me to far forwards on the skis since I put the heel 1cm forwards. Thats's how much diff. there is between 27,5 zzero and tlt5 in shell length.
5.Bitter cold and wind on northern aspect at 5 in the morning. The boots seemed as warm as the zzeros at first, but tight liner mold made me suffer in the end. I think this will improve with next mold, toe box seemed big enough.
6. After about 3000" my friend was lagging behind, normally he doesn't, maybe the shoes sped me up? On the steep skintrack they were great too, i delayed the heel riser twist until we reached the continous steep skintrack, didn't even think about using risers in rolling terrain. Nice to push your boot over early season rocks and creeks without the boot pusing on the calves.
7.Changeover smoother than zzeroes, two clamps on. To put the top clamp in it's slot in the back you need to stand up, way up...
8.Struggeling with the cold and foot arch pinch, hands frozen, i could only rip the skins and clamp the boots. That means the stiff boot fronts stayed in the pack. On the praxis in slighty bumpy terrain, though 20-30cm of fluff, I did not get enough forward pressure, and went to the backseat alot. The Praxis need speed to turn on their shape, soo not the best ski choice in complicated terrain, big rocks, bumps and gullies. Tlt 5 behaved approx as Scapa Lasers at this point. Sideways stiffness good, though. Didn't help me that I only had 1 working ski pole...
9.TLT5 seems to be more upright in dh mode than zzero's, is this correct?
Did seem as if, I do not know if i liked it.

Good start on my new boots, but not great, i wanted them originally for bc big days and powder on big skis, let's hope they are up for it.

[hilmersen]

The tlt5p has 15 degrees forward lean. The zzero has 15 and 21 - I don't think I have ever used the 15 degree forward lean on the zzeros.
The lack of forward lean was the one thing that was holding me back, but now that I have them it really isn't a problem. Haven't used them in anything that resembles powder yet, so I might miss more forward lean for pumping...but I don't think so: the flex with the tounge is so smooth and gradual.

[harpo-the-skier]

Does anyone know any boot fitting techniques that can substitute for the adjustable canting that are avaialble on many AT boots, but not the TLT5? Can you put shims on the inside of the cuff without affecting the alighnment of the upper buckle?

[Federico]

Are you sure you need to adjust the cuff alignment? 99% of the population don't need it. Like all Dynafit boots TLT5 are not straight they are already anatomicaly pre-canted approx 5° on the outside ( most common anatomy).
Anyway don't try any home made change if you dis-align cuff and internal spoiler the system will work badly.
Ciao

Fede

Does anyone know any boot fitting techniques that can substitute for the adjustable canting that are avaialble on many AT boots, but not the TLT5? Can you put shims on the inside of the cuff without affecting the alighnment of the upper buckle?

[LeeLau]

Well fede _ you guys have created a marvel. I finally got out on the boots today although it was with smaller skis and just a short tour. My stride on the flats is longer because there's no resistance and this is with the tongue still in it . Rough numbers - my stride is usually about 75cms; now its 85cms. Or about 13% more. That's free distance and a hell of a lot more terrain covered over thousands of strides a day.

Just the one day so far and this was on borrowed boots I pinched out of Escape Route so really hesitant to compare against other AT boots till I get more days

[gillesleskieur]

Well fede _ you guys have created a marvel. I finally got out on the boots today although it was with smaller skis and just a short tour. My stride on the flats is longer because there's no resistance and this is with the tongue still in it . Rough numbers - my stride is usually about 75cms; now its 85cms. Or about 13% more. That's free distance and a hell of a lot more terrain covered over thousands of strides a day.

Just the one day so far and this was on borrowed boots I pinched out of Escape Route so really hesitant to compare against other AT boots till I get more days

Those boots doesn't compare to any other anyway so... ;-)

[Kai]

I skied these for the first time at the resort (Snowbird) a few days ago. Haven't toured on them yet. I just wanted to test their downhill capabilities. I have to say I was impressed. They have remarkable stiffness and control for a touring oriented AT boot. Better than my Garmont Mega Rides by a large margin. I was skiing on 187cm Dynafit Manaslu skis, which are very light. No problems at all in thick snow or on ice.
My only concern was warmth. It was a cold day on the mountain (9 degrees at the base, and about 0 degrees at the top of the tram.) My feet were a bit chilly. I think that low single digits are the low end of this boot's comfort range on my feet.

Hoping to get out touring on them next weekend.

[Jonathan S.]

Can you put shims on the inside of the cuff without affecting the alighnment of the upper buckle?

Use very dense boot fitting foam to pad the outside of the liner so as to center your lower leg shaft within the shell's upper cuff: really the *only* way to deal with significant misalignment give that even the typical boot with a lateral cuff adjustment has so little range as to be almost entirely worthless.

[Federico]

They are not born for resort skiing ;-) ... I would say they are warm enough for most of european and north american winter temperature ski mountaineering trips, they might be a little cold only on very cold days, same as all other ski touring boots.
And for sure they will be not warm enough if used for a full day of chair lift rides on a cold day. To improve it keep in mind to release both cuff and shell buckles after the downhill, this will allow a better blod circulation and warm up a little bit your feet.
But please Kai, always keep in mind on of the most important rules in the Dynafit community... "Using lifts is a big sign of weakness"
Thanks for the great feedbacks.

Fede

I skied these for the first time at the resort (Snowbird) a few days ago. Haven't toured on them yet. I just wanted to test their downhill capabilities. I have to say I was impressed. They have remarkable stiffness and control for a touring oriented AT boot. Better than my Garmont Mega Rides by a large margin. I was skiing on 187cm Dynafit Manaslu skis, which are very light. No problems at all in thick snow or on ice.
My only concern was warmth. It was a cold day on the mountain (9 degrees at the base, and about 0 degrees at the top of the tram.) My feet were a bit chilly. I think that low single digits are the low end of this boot's comfort range on my feet.

Hoping to get out touring on them next weekend.

[Federico]

Thanks Lee!, enjoy them... and don't forget to remove the tongue on the climbing parts... it will give you some cm more :-)

Well fede _ you guys have created a marvel. I finally got out on the boots today although it was with smaller skis and just a short tour. My stride on the flats is longer because there's no resistance and this is with the tongue still in it . Rough numbers - my stride is usually about 75cms; now its 85cms. Or about 13% more. That's free distance and a hell of a lot more terrain covered over thousands of strides a day.

Just the one day so far and this was on borrowed boots I pinched out of Escape Route so really hesitant to compare against other AT boots till I get more days

[byates1]

just got back from 6 days in slc, skiing everyday in the tlt 5 performance.

some thoughts:

my heels are crushed in the narrow heel pocket, the underside and my inside heels on both feet are asleep and sore as fuck a couple hrs into a ski.. it became more manageable on the latter days, trying all different types of footbeds and liner socks.

yes, i had them molded correctly, i need to continue to work on the issue, may have to get the heels punched out a little bit, also possibly put a footboard on the bottom to rise me up off the narrow-ist part of the boot. other than that, the fit is good, no problems in the forefoot etc,

cold feet:

i generally run warm, don't sweat much, and am naturally resilient to the cold, there was a 0 deg day where i had no footbed in and a liner sock where my toes were a bit cold, thought of a reflective/vbl toe cap would work for the coldest days. overall, if you are prone to cold feet, this boot will certainly be a challenge fro you, and you will prob need another boot for the cold days.

durability:

the boot is put together well, but i think there will be an issue with the bottom buckle. it is minimal, has a tiny spring that has already failed and been popped back in, and by the nature of the placement, flips open when skinning because of hitting things like harder snow, etc. i also barely grazed a stick coming to a stop and bent the entire thing, the rivet is loose.

the dyna boot has a firmly locking cam buckle, i wish it was put on this boot, i think a retrofit/mod will need to be done. like the first gen megarides, the buckle being on the outside hits everything, and is prone to damage, flipping it may also be a possibility.

also, the anatomical shape of the forefoot makes it behave like a tele boot would, meaning ski edges are prone to hitting the "bellow" area on the inside of the boot, mine are already getting shaved away.


skinning:

there is no doubt this is the boot you want on your feet when it comes to walking up mountains. it is really amazing that i can take my dog for walks, do other household stuff, then look down and realize this is the same thing i would have on my feet skiing a 40 deg icy chute. we broke trail for 4 hrs up to the cascade ridge line in deep snow, and the ability of throwing the ski forward and having virtually no cuff resistance on the back of your leg is amazing, and will really be noticed if i were to go back to a megaride type boot.

skiing:

great skiing boot for the overall build/what the boot is trying to be. i ended up not using the tongue skiing powder with mellow friends on 167 baker superlights. putting the tongue in the boot skis awesome. if you are already a proficient skier you really don't need the stiffest boot anyway, and this boot is plenty, mounting 182 stokes next week in slc, looking forward to getting on a bigger ski.

overall, a great boot, expensive, with some durability questions, some fit issues, but for what is is, totally kills it. i hope i can solve the fit issues, and could see a hard season beating the shit out of these needing to replace them. we will see. i am hard on everything, and will prob come close to 100 days this season

hope this helps...

[Dromond]

Good review, byates. Put up one for the Stokes after you get some days in on them.

[byates1]

^^ will do josh,

another thought on the bottom buckle situation; the grooves where the cable fits in are prone to getting filled with snow and such, a numer of times in the cold trying to get the cable to seat in the buckle with gloves on when there was snow/rime/etc packed in there was irritating.. add this to the other issues and i can recall being frustrated with all of it: bending, popping open, spring failure, snow packed in etc..

this in only 6 tours or so. still an awesome boot, and hoping like hell i can use these like i want with minimal isssues.

[Patches]

I have 8 half-days on mine now. No trips over 6K', and only in good soft snow, but I'd still say they are a quantum leap forward in touring boots. I don't ski much terrain with big exposure cause I'm a scaredy-cat but what I do, I'd do it in TLT5s. They are, or should be, stiff enough for anything 99% of us will do in the BC.

In fact I took the booster straps off and just carry them in the bottom of my pack, they ski great without them and its one less thing to flap around.

No durability issues with mine yet. I can echo what byates1 says about the lower buckle jamming with ice but I always keep mine on the same setting both going up and down since removing the tongue loosens them a little, so its not an issue for me.

Taking the tongue in and out gets pretty fast once you have a system.

I'd still pick something burlier for sidecountry, or if you friends are only wanting to do 3K' days, or are way slower than you. I guess I should also qualify the 99% statement by saying 99% of people who have skied a lot and have good "technical" skills. In other words these will be fine for 99% of people once they have the knowledge base to ski them. If you've only skied a few hundred days in your life you might need a stiffer boot.

[hilmersen]

If you've only skied a few hundred days in your life you might need a stiffer boot.

Fun to see how things change. It used to be that fat skis were for "fat bob". The last years it seems that "everybody" has screamed about how stiff boots and wide skis they need because they ski sooo hard. Seems like the pendula is shifting again.... ( That said, a stiff boot also gives more control to a skilled skier.....)

[Christopher3000]

Are you sure you need to adjust the cuff alignment? 99% of the population don't need it. Like all Dynafit boots TLT5 are not straight they are already anatomicaly pre-canted approx 5° on the outside ( most common anatomy).
Anyway don't try any home made change if you dis-align cuff and internal spoiler the system will work badly.
Ciao

Fede

I'm pretty sure I need to adjust the cuff alignment, but only on dynafit boots. I've had a lot of ski boots in my life, many of which were fit by a bootfitter. I've been told on every occasion that the alignment of my knees over my feet is perfect for ski boots, and that I don't need a canting adjustment. I've also had several scarpa boots, and although they are generally too wide for my feet, I think they ski well and the canting certainly works for my legs.

I've never noticed a problem with boot canting until I got Titans last year. They push my knees into a bowlegged stance, and when I flex forward, my knees move to the outside. In good snow this is not a problem, but in bad snow it is very awkward. In crusted powder or on windboard, my inside ski hooks up earlier than my outside ski and makes my legs want to move apart. It takes a great deal of concentration to keep my skis from crossing or splitting apart.

So, of all the boots I've had over the years--Nordica, Lange, Technica, Salomon, Scarpa, Dynafit--the only boots that cant to the outside are Dynafits, and the only time I've wanted to adjust the canting to a more upright position is now that I'm touring in Dynafit boots. I've been really psyched to get a pair of TLT5's, but I tried some on recently and I was dismayed to find that they too are built for bowlegged skiing. Like the Titans, it is not so much that I noticed it on the floor of the shop when trying on. Now I wonder if, like I did with the Titans, I'd purchase the TLT5s with a great deal of stoke only to find that they are great touring boots but bad SKI boots.

Just because most people happen to be slightly bowlegged does not mean their knees should be pushed to the outside of their skis when they flex their boots. In proper ski boot alignment, kneecaps should go straight toward ski tips when boots are flexed forward. This is how a skier weights the tip of the ski, causing it to flex and build energy. We don't need any help putting our skis on edge from our ski boots, unless our knees are poorly aligned, and generally, no one needs to be pushed to the outside who isn't knock-kneed.

One thing that is confounding as I check out AT boots is that touring boot manufacturers don't take cues from alpine boot makers when it comes to downhill performance. AT boots will never ski like race boots, and shouldn't, but that doesn't mean that they can't have adequate forward lean, and SIMILAR CANTING TO ALMOST EVERY BOOT EVER DESIGNED FOR SKIING.

[Jonathan S.]

AT boots will never ski like race boots, and shouldn't, but that doesn't mean that they can't have adequate forward lean, and SIMILAR CANTING TO ALMOST EVERY BOOT EVER DESIGNED FOR SKIING.

Almost all alpine boots -- downhill or touring -- are slightly canted to the outside. Even boots with a lateral cuff adjustment have a typical range that simply goes from more outside canted to slightly less outside canted. And a wider range of adjustment is easy to achieve just by adding padding to the outside of the liner. The first stance alignment goal though (well, after stabilizing the foot) is always to center the lower leg shaft within the upper cuff shell.
The trickier adjustment is getting the knees to track straight when flexed. That is only partially a function of the initial upper cuff angle, and is more importantly a function of the alignment of the upper cuff attachment. As much as I hesitate to reference anything related to PMTS, this provides a decent overview:
http://www.howtoski.net/sub_boots2.htm
As for forward lean (sometimes also referred to as cant, albeit in a different plane), the optimal amount varies widely by individual lower leg morphology, and also varies widely by boot, whether AT or alpine (although AT boots often offer a huge range of adjustment here), so I don't see how any generalizations can be made on this for AT vs downhill.
The bottomline is that individual stance alignment needs vary widely, and that even the most skilled boot technician can adapt a particular boot model only so far. Each boot company has to essentially select a target audience, and therefore some people are just not going to be a good stance alignment match for some boots (even if the "fit" is perfect).

[Christopher3000]

Each boot company has to essentially select a target audience

I know this is the bottom line. My frustration stems mostly from the fact that Dynafit boots are functionally superior to other products--particularly the TLT5 performance, which felt much, much stiffer than any AT boot of a similar weight, but which is essentially as good for climbing as AT race boots--and yet, due to what seems to me and apparently to others posting on this forum an awkward and unadjustable outward cuff alignment, they will never be good ski boots for my feet/legs.

A side by side comparison of all the boots in my closet--Titan, Scarpa T-Race, old Technica Icon XT, Nordica Dobermann--reveals that both pair of alpine boots do not appear obviously bowlegged, while the scarpas and t-races do. The T-race worked extremely well for me; why doesn't the Titan?

[Jonathan S.]

[...]awkward and unadjustable outward cuff alignment[...]

Why do you refer to the lateral cuff alignment as unadjustable when you don't seem to have tried adjusting it at all?