4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

[BushwackerinPA]

silly amount of quick and this run was in really hard upside down snow with some scouring. At first I did not trust it on the scoured sections but its was fun with no catchiness.

[guzman]

Nicely done Bushwhacker. Watched that 5 times, Must get out in the next couple days!

[UllrsParadise]

Looking for some wisdom from other skiers on Renegades. I picked up a pair this season and after some patience in learning how to comfortably ski these things Im finding that I really enjoy the "Hoji" style of skiing. Upright, neutral, balanced position. Quick pivot of the ankle to initiate the turn. Its amazing how responsive and quick and fun these are and I wish I could ski them every day. They are close but I just don't find them an every day, every condition ski. I still think I need some soft snow under them to feel completely comfortable.

My question is what else skies like a Renegade but could offer me a little more versatility? Something I could travel with without knowing conditions and be able to handle some firmer conditions when necessary. My first thought was obviously the 4frnt Hoji but its reviews are all over the place. Some people claim it can do everything, some say its terrifying on hard or icy conditions. A few comments several pages back mentioned the Cochise and Im interested in that ski. Also very interested in the Moment Deathwish and the Praxis MVP.

Anyone have any thoughts on what might adopt a similar skiing feel as the Renegade but be a little more capable around the whole mountain? Thanks.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Try the Devastator. Same ReflectTech as the Renegade, but in a skinnier, stiff, twin-tip ski. I find them super versatile for where I ski (Bridger). Only downside I've really found is they don't really like long, flat groomers (the rocker tends to make them want to wander on flat terrain), and of course they're a bit heavy for a touring setup. I'm adding a more in-depth review to earlyups this week, but I highly recommend them if you like the Renegade.

[mntlion]

hoji will be a bit closer to the Rens, in both width and sidecut

Devestator will be less quiver overlap.

Ravens might be an option too?

[whyturn]

I transitioned to the billy goat for everyday. More general and more forgiving but also still quick

[Judo Chop!]

I have rens and hojis and i find them to have very different purposes for me. Rens are for when i want something super solid and hojis are for easier/playful/make-more-turns version of rens and for a similar feel for tired leg days (they make a great touring &/or tree ski) but both really do need some soft snow.

Cochise i have as well, and while i think its a good firmer-snow compliment to renegades, its not as similar as some people claim. i wouldn't say its the same feeling... Although im not sure you can get that feeling on hard. You do ski them from a somewhat similar stance though, but certainly more shin pressure on the cochises.

[UllrsParadise]

Thanks, that's about what I expected the Hoji would be. Probably not as capable as Id like them to be, unfortunately.

Then devastator does look interesting though. Ill keep an eye out for that review, benfjord.

[Judo Chop!]

I'm excited to try the Ravens. for some reason I have in my head that they'd be more similar feel to the Rens than the hojis (I base that on nothing other than gut feel...and hope), but better for hard snow. But I'm waiting for the 190.

[Ggreenie]

Thanks, that's about what I expected the Hoji would be. Probably not as capable as Id like them to be, unfortunately.

If you can ski as I suspect you can you would probably like them. They're plenty capable, and very much capable of handling hard pack. They're basically just a more versatile, less intense Renegade. Which seems to be what you're looking for.

[UllrsParadise]

If you can ski as I suspect you can you would probably like them. They're plenty capable, and very much capable of handling hard pack. They're basically just a more versatile, less intense Renegade. Which seems to be what you're looking for.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Good to hear that you're confident in them on hard pack. Maybe I should consider them a little more carefully. Just one of those skis that for every review that says they are actually a versatile capable ski, I read two more about how sketchy they are in firm conditions. After skiing the rens though, I would believe what your suggesting about skier ability and skier style really bring able to make this ski work all over the hill. Rens did take some time to adjust to and require more precise skiing. I imagine hojis would be a similar situation(at least for hard pack, sounds like they're definitely less demanding in any soft snow)

Thanks for the info.

[Supermoon]

Also you just have to remember that any full reverse ski is going to be loose and sketchy in really firm conditions because you don't have any ski on the snow. Camber was invented for a reason! :P

[Judo Chop!]

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Good to hear that you're confident in them on hard pack. Maybe I should consider them a little more carefully. Just one of those skis that for every review that says they are actually a versatile capable ski, I read two more about how sketchy they are in firm conditions. After skiing the rens though, I would believe what your suggesting about skier ability and skier style really bring able to make this ski work all over the hill. Rens did take some time to adjust to and require more precise skiing. I imagine hojis would be a similar situation(at least for hard pack, sounds like they're definitely less demanding in any soft snow)

Thanks for the info.

Hojis can certainly handle hard snow admirably, it's just not where they shine; and there are better hard snow specific options obviously. They are certainly very versatile and if you hit some hard patches they'll be fine, but I wouldn't have them as my ski of choice for pure hardpack days. Apparently neither would Hoji himself = Raven (which, as I understand, has a big flat section in the rocker just for that).

The hojis are certainly less demanding in soft snow (and I think they float just as well), but the downside is that I find the tips a bit soft sometimes when I've been spending time on the Rens recently. I could be way off base here, but that's how it feels to me. Either way, I find Hoji (touring) + Rens (alpine) a great compliment and I'm glad I have both.

[whyturn]

I have seen a troller just rip down variable snow on hojis. It seems to be quite good in anything soft. Did not look weak at all to me. But have not skied it. I would like to though since some hardback days on runouts after powder I would get punished. Spur seems to have a similar shape and possibly less demanding
Hoji is just a freak of nature

[gramboh]

I have rens and hojis and i find them to have very different purposes for me. Rens are for when i want something super solid and hojis are for easier/playful/make-more-turns version of rens and for a similar feel for tired leg days (they make a great touring &/or tree ski) but both really do need some soft snow.

Cochise i have as well, and while i think its a good firmer-snow compliment to renegades, its not as similar as some people claim. i wouldn't say its the same feeling... Although im not sure you can get that feeling on hard. You do ski them from a somewhat similar stance though, but certainly more shin pressure on the cochises.

Also own all 3 and agree with Judo here.

Hojis are great in soft and easier than the Ren but do not rip on real hardpack. I think the Cochise is a way better hardpack ski but is not much fun in soft. I only tour on my Hojis and they are fine for variable conditions you encounter there, the only place I don't enjoy them is skiing back through resort hardpack (groomed hardpack they are fine, it's variable chunky/refrozen resort chunder they are not fun in). I do have to say I had an absolutely blast skiing resort corn/slush on them at Shames the last few days, even with Dyanfit Radical ST they were confidence inspiring in that kind of snow.

[UllrsParadise]

Thanks everyone. Lots of good info. Re-read the Hoji thread too. Might actually be time to move this topic over there instead of hijacking the Ren thread. Still looking for any other suggestions of what other skiers are finding that compliment their Rens when conditions become less than ideal. If I didn't already have an excellent all around touring ski, im pretty sure my search would already be over(Hoji's). Was trying to get down to a Ren + 1 other ski for resort use but it sounds like several people are finding a Ren/Hoji/"Something more conventional" combo to work well for them.

[Judo Chop!]

Ren/cochise seems to be a pretty common go to.

[Ggreenie]

My quiver;

Renegade/Hoji/Race

Nothing else is needed

[Rip'nStick]

Have only skied back East once and I remember following my friend through trees like that. Totally ridiculous. Hope you all are having a great year. Post more edits. Been a dry year out West, late Feb-early March being the exception so far. Need more East Coast stoke

[BushwackerinPA]

Have only skied back East once and I remember following my friend through trees like that. Totally ridiculous. Hope you all are having a great year. Post more edits. Been a dry year out West, late Feb-early March being the exception so far. Need more East Coast stoke

I have new one coming up with some Renegade stoke as well its actually a really good eastern tree/chute/ powder /any weird snow ski. Can be pain in the resort though unless its dumping all day long or VERY heavy. It seem like the worse the snow (excluding ice) the better.

this snow was good though.

[BushwackerinPA]

Try the Devastator. Same ReflectTech as the Renegade, but in a skinnier, stiff, twin-tip ski. I find them super versatile for where I ski (Bridger). Only downside I've really found is they don't really like long, flat groomers (the rocker tends to make them want to wander on flat terrain), and of course they're a bit heavy for a touring setup. I'm adding a more in-depth review to earlyups this week, but I highly recommend them if you like the Renegade.

How carvy are the Devastator when layed up on edge? I know running flat they are probably skttish as all hell. Maybe the new Kye 110 or 120 would be more like a every day Renegade/Hoji, with still relatively long sidecut and taper but with some camber underfoot.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

They're a little skittish running flat, but if you get them up to speed and lay them on edge they're incredibly responsive and can really carve. Surprisingly so. I don't think I've been on a fully rockered ski that's this fun on groomers before.

The new Kye could definitely be even better with a little camber underneath. Will be interesting to see the difference between the 110 and the Devastator, feels like those two skis overlap a lot on paper. Seems like the Kye must fit some niche the Devastator doesn't, but I'm not sure what that is yet.

[Evil E]

Just an FYI, i had the pleasure of skiing the 2015-16 Hoji 187 and the devastator (180-something) at Copper during SIA at the end of January. I liked both skis a lot, but found the Hoji to be one of the most fun and confidence inspiring skis I have been on in a long time. The devastator was great on hardpack, but so was the Hoji and it was far more rewarding in softer conditions and felt really playful considering the powerful edge hold it displayed. It hauled ass with no chatter and cruised through chopped pow with ease. Im definitely going to snap up a pair next season.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Here's my take on the Devastator: http://earlyups.com/review-4frnt-devastator/

I tried to keep the review pretty simple, but my overall thought is if you like fully rockered skis and need an all mountain tool I'd give the Devastator a very close look. Especially at the prices you can get them for this spring.

[ImSearchingforPowder]

If anyone is selling a single 13/14 196 ren let me know