Thread: You're not wrong, Israel. You're just an asshole.

Isn't that the right answer? Israel has numerous reasons to justify the Gaza blockade and the raid on the flotilla, even justification for the treatment of Palestinian refugees. history is on its side.

But the real issue continues to be for every act that Israel takes against Gaza, it creates future Hamas supporters. For every action that Israel justifies due to their treatment by others, they engender more hatred against those who are predisposed to hate it anyway.

Yes, if they appease the terrorists or try to play nice or even help Gazans, it could come back to bite them in the ass. But, playing it the way they have guarantees hatred and attack, whereas the other method makes it at least not guaranteed.

In the end, the only long term solution is to create long-term good will, generations of it.

I agree 100%

But do you think is possible when the other side is intent on your destruction and has been since the start?

You have to be an asshole in the middle east or you just get stepped on. People in the Middle East have no respect for kindness.

Its not kindness - its bringing them up to a standard of living. the comfortable middle class just does not revolt - anywhere at anytime in history.

there will be groups hell bent on israel's destruction forever. seems to me the long game is slowly dwindling the numbers of those groups' supporters. the short game is wipe em out or make em suffer. israel should be in it for the long game.

Originally Posted by stupendous man

the comfortable middle class just does not revolt - anywhere at anytime in history.
.

You dont know much history do you? Specifically American history. Ben Franklin and the rest of the founding fathers were mostly middle to upper class.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

You dont know much history do you? Specifically American history. Ben Franklin and the rest of the founding fathers were mostly middle to upper class.

As were both sides in the Civil War. As was much of Europe before WWI. But yes standard of living does help, as does the distinct fact that Democracies hardly ever fight each other.

Originally Posted by stupendous man

Yes, if they appease the terrorists or try to play nice or even help Gazans, it will come back to bite them in the ass. But, playing it the way they have guarantees hatred and attack, whereas the other method makes it at least not guaranteed.

fixed it for ya....You are dreaming of a utopian middle east that does not exist. Israel has to deal with this all the time. They have said "Enough". I can't blame them. Cross this line...You do not!!

When there's money involved people will go to war. Make no mistake the rev war and CW were economically driven (taxes and tariffs) as well as philosophically.

Actually, I'd argue both the RW and CW were UPPER class revolts. The rich trying to protect their ass. You can find plenty of upper and lower class revolts, not so much the contented middle.

Originally Posted by stupendous man

Isn't that the right answer? Israel has numerous reasons to justify the Gaza blockade and the raid on the flotilla, even justification for the treatment of Palestinian refugees. history is on its side.

But the real issue continues to be for every act that Israel takes against Gaza, it creates future Hamas supporters. For every action that Israel justifies due to their treatment by others, they engender more hatred against those who are predisposed to hate it anyway.

Yes, if they appease the terrorists or try to play nice or even help Gazans, it could come back to bite them in the ass. But, playing it the way they have guarantees hatred and attack, whereas the other method makes it at least not guaranteed.

In the end, the only long term solution is to create long-term good will, generations of it.

You actually hit is right on the head with that one.
Israel has a right to defend itself, but every time they take an action, it's so over the top that it just helps Hamas, etc. Of course, when they boarded that floatilla, they actually were attacked. I don't think they were shot at though. They sent in the equivalent of their SEALs to react to a major protest. You don't send in a special forces hit squad for what is clearly supposed to be a police action.

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

You actually hit is right on the head with that one.
Israel has a right to defend itself, but every time they take an action, it's so over the top that it just helps Hamas, etc. Of course, when they boarded that floatilla, they actually were attacked. I don't think they were shot at though. They sent in the equivalent of their SEALs to react to a major protest. You don't send in a special forces hit squad for what is clearly supposed to be a police action.

Is the US's "war on terror" substantively any different?

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

You dont know much history do you? Specifically American history. Ben Franklin and the rest of the founding fathers were mostly middle to upper class.

They were fucking rich, dolt. Now drum up another erroneous attribution to Ben Franklin to make everyone laugh.

Originally Posted by toast2266

Is the US's "war on terror" substantively any different?

extremely.... did you already forget about 9/11 and the 3000 american lives?

Congrats, stupidman - you got one of the biggest cement heads here to agree with you:

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

You actually hit is right on the head with that one.

Mission accomplished!

Fuck the Palestinians. What's Israel suppose to do when the Palestinians launch rockets, mortars, and suicide bombers into Israel on an almost daily basis.

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

They were fucking rich, dolt. Now drum up another erroneous attribution to Ben Franklin to make everyone laugh.

Wait, so you're saying what I said was correct, yet someone that makes me a dolt?

I dont get it. Maybe I'm a dolt. Then again, maybe you're the most pretentious douchebag on here.

Originally Posted by nickwm21

extremely.... did you already forget about 9/11 and the 3000 american lives?

how does that make it any different?

Ya fuck 'em it's not like a bunch of allied nations didn't want a bunch of jews in their countries and decided to create a religious state based on a anthology of fiction, fuck 'em all.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Wait, so you're saying what I said was correct, yet someone that makes me a dolt?

I dont get it. Maybe I'm a dolt. Then again, maybe you're the most pretentious douchebag on here.

you presented a group of rich white men as a counterpoint to the notion that the middle class doesn't rebel, so yes, that makes you a dolt.

Originally Posted by stupendous man

Isn't that the right answer? Israel has numerous reasons to justify the Gaza blockade and the raid on the flotilla, even justification for the treatment of Palestinian refugees. history is on its side.

There we disagree (as in bolded part).

But Israel is proverbially between a rock and a hard place. So I can understand on why they are doing the stuff they are doing... Too bad, pretty much everything they have done only create more radical extremists in muslim countries with hatred towards them.



On a side note, I find it rather amusing (OK, in this case it is not amusing, but anyway) that those that were teh last to be opressed, are the biggest bullies now. Gettos in the 40s and Gaza now have much in common... only the ones opressed in the Gettos are the ones opressing now in Gaza.

Oh, and before someone calls me an anti-semite or what ever. I share equal dislike for extemists of any color, race or religion...

Originally Posted by stupendous man

Its not kindness - its bringing them up to a standard of living. the comfortable middle class just does not revolt - anywhere at anytime in history....//....

Damn!!! There go my hopes for revolution in THIS country.

Except I think over here, the meter is really: The price of a Starbucks Latte and the price of a gallon of gas.

As long as both Starbucks and gasoline is basically affordeable...the American people won't move their fat asses (and getting fatter by the year...Wall E world) off the couch.

But the day when either goes beyond affordability...oh oh.

And the day when BOTH become unaffordable....WATCH OUT!!! Tea-Party time.

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

you presented a group of rich white men as a counterpoint to the notion that the middle class doesn't rebel, so yes, that makes you a dolt.

I think your reading comprehension is pretty poor. I presented that as a counterpoint to the idea that only the poor rebel. He didn't say ONLY the middle class, he said people who were comfortable, ie, middle class AND ABOVE. Besides, even if some of the leaders of our revolution were rich, most of the people fighting were middle class.

God you're dumber than a fucking brick, which would be forgivable, since you can't help that, except that you're pompous, arrogant, pretentious, and generally worthless.

I'm also not sure what their race has to do with anything either.

Originally Posted by toast2266

Is the US's "war on terror" substantively any different?

Not by much.

we have oceans between us and those we are threatened by. israel has city blocks.