Thread: QuikClot-- worthwhile to include in first-aid kit?

just throwing this out there; these type of products are becoming increasingly useful in the non-combat environment, as more and more people are on anti-clotting agents--my experience with emergency first aid is that its usually someone outside of your group who needs assistance!

I pack benzoin and steri strips, and, for the 30% of the time I'm traveling without a MD or NP in my party I'm prepared to stitch a real gasher.

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

. . . my upcoming trip to the relatively remote Glacier Peak. . . .

Which route?

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Which route?

The easiest!
Well, how about, the slightly less ridiculously long?
http://skimountaineer.com/CascadeSki...p?name=Glacier
"Easiest, crevasse-free summit route follows the south ridge. Long 12 mile approach trail, sharing the first 7 miles with the Sitkum approach. Many skiing possibilities near 6000-8000 ft level on White Chuck Glacier. Gerdine Ridge above may be snow-free by early summer, so route may need to detour east onto the edge of the Gerdine Glacier."
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(My partner needs Glacier Peak to complete his quest to ski from the summit of every PNW peak > 10k that is skiable from the summit. I have Lassen, Shasta, Shastina, Baker-Grant, Baker-Sherman, Adams, Rainier, South Sister -- still haven't skied Middle Sister at all, and haven't skied quite from the very top of Hood.)

Amar calls it Gerdine Ridge. Beckey calls it Disappointment Peak Cleaver. By either name, it's a choss pile. The much better route is just E (climber's right) of the cleaver (bypassing DP on climber's right) up the Gerdine Glaciers to the Cool Glacier. The Gerdine/Cool ("DPC Right") route has become the standard ascent since the trail washouts to the Sitkum. It's a lovely route, much better than the Sitkum. Best standard route of all the PNW stratovolcanoes, IMO. Crevasses are not an issue on the Gerdine/Cool route until late season except for a short stretch on the margin of the Cool, just after topping out the Gerdines. You can approach the route from the W (Sauk) or E (several options). PM me if you want more details.

As far as steri strips go--the 1/2 inch should work for everything. They would be useful mainly for small cuts, especially on the face--where staples would leave scars. Also hurt less to apply than staples. Use with tincture of benzoin so they'll stick better.

One problem with staples is that they require the skin edges to be held together to apply. we use forceps for this in surgery. Suture--3-0 or 4-0 nylon on a Keith (straight) needle allows the suture to pull the wound together-no surgical needle holder or forceps required.

The quick clot video is misleading--they bled the pig down to such a low blood pressure that there was almost no visible bleeding by the time they put in the quick clot.

Any wilderness medical kit is a compromise. You can't take an Army field hospital with you on a day hike. What you take depends on the nature of the trip, the length, remoteness, availability of evacuation, other medical resources in the area (there is an aid station on Denali, for example), expected environmental hazards like bad water, altitude etc. In this context, the chance for a penetrating injury with bleeding that can't be stopped with direct pressure (ie--fingers in the hole, not a lot of bandages between the pressure and the hole in the blood vessel) on a skiing or climbing trip is relatively unlikely, compared to say a combat situation, so I wouldn't take quick clot. For a trip to climb a Cascade peak of 10000 ft the medical kit you are proposing is way over the top. (On the other hand, for a one month climbing trip in the winds my medical kit consisted of aspirin, bandaids, moleskin and duct tape--most people would take more).


Whatever you take, training is far more important than what you take--most of the stuff in the Denali kit is worthless if you don't know how, and especially when, to use it.

this thread is rad!

thanks for the folks spending their time to share their thoughts and information!

The two things I have pulled out of my kit the most, both inbounds and b/c, have been large bandages for abrasions and knee braces/ace bandages. But like the rest of the supplies in there that sit idle, it would be a bitch if you needed something and didn't have it.

Originally Posted by old goat

The quick clot video is misleading--they bled the pig down to such a low blood pressure that there was almost no visible bleeding by the time they put in the quick clot.

That was on my mind too.

I was unfamiliar with quickclot before this thread, but just saw a quickclot branded nose bleed kit at the drug store today.

Originally Posted by old goat

Whatever you take, training is far more important than what you take--most of the stuff in the Denali kit is worthless if you don't know how, and especially when, to use it.

It's even better if you can go one step farther then training, and have experience. I don't care how many classes you've taken, it's hard to squash panic when your friend is bleeding like an ninja in a Tarantino movie. Doctors, Nurses, EMTs, Vets, they all make good partners.

Actually, the average doctor (like me) is fairly useless in a field situation unless they're trained and experienced in such situations (or at least so says my ski patroller son). Plus, we make lousy partners because we keep wanting to give orders.

I'll start my own thread but for non-deep-puncture wounds, anyone use super glue?

^^^
Use it and have been carrying it in my aid bag for ~15-years. More for small lacerations/incisions than puncture wounds. Cut up hands from climbing, stepping on sharp rocks, etc. Make sure the site is well cleaned first, and it works great. I prefer the pen like tubes because they seem to be easier to reuse than the tiny squeeze tubes that just dry up.

Probably the most important thing to carry in a backcountry medical kit is a roll or two of good cloth adhesive tape--the type trainers use. Ankle sprains are probably the most common significant injury backpackers and climbers are likely to have, and a bad sprain can force an evacuation--by carry, mule, or helicopter--not cheap or easy. Learn how to tape an ankle and the victim can wear a boot and walk out. Don't forget a razor to shave the leg. A couple of SAM splints and an ace wrap and you can treat a broken wrist--another common injury. Read about how to relocate a dislocated shoulder--can make a huge difference in pain. The point of a wilderness medical kit is to allow the victim to either stay in camp in reasonable comfort while the rest of the group continues the trip, or to allow self evacuation. Forget about saving lives--if you have a life threatening injury in the backcountry you're likely going to die unless you get flown out in a hurry. (The main advance in military medicine is not quick clot and the like--it's the helicopter.)

I have had a few discussions about the clotting/wound sealing type first aid materials. While they do work to seal a wound the problem that crops up isn't bleeding out, in many of their FA applications but in what is trapped in the wound.
Watching a blood infection spread isn't fun. If these types of products are used the injured area needs to be cleaned, the wound needs to be irrigated and then wound sealent might work. Another issue is the way the products tend to bind tissues makes it difficult for additional medical aid to be administered.

Originally Posted by old goat

Actually, the average doctor (like me) is fairly useless in a field situation unless they're trained and experienced in such situations (or at least so says my ski patroller son). Plus, we make lousy partners because we keep wanting to give orders.

that's why I prefer the ER/anesthesiologist over the GP/obstetrician and besides the GP is almost impossible to keep up with on tour

Originally Posted by XXX-er

that's why I prefer the ER/anesthesiologist over the GP/obstetrician and besides the GP is almost impossible to keep up with on tour

Unless of course one is giving birth in the backcountry--and what do you carry in your first aid kit for that?

Originally Posted by old goat

Unless of course one is giving birth in the backcountry--and what do you carry in your first aid kit for that?

Triple-strength Ambien...for me, not the pt.

Nice thread. Would only add that I carry a fair sized kit when I'm far far away and no possibility of evac, including some serious gear literally never used so far (SAM splint roll, tourniquet, surgical needle and thread), but besides the usual prescription meds, tapes and bandages, advocate the little ancillary stuff that speeds up/smooths out response:

1) small straight tip hemostats, which are good for everything from picking out splinters or bugs to helping close a gash if you're on your own, 2) pair of plastic drugstore glasses that give 4-5x mag, 3) Small plastic dental mirror, for seeing places your eyes don't go if you're on your own, 4) small bulb syringe, 5) finger splints. (Fingers get messed up a lot in my experience.), 6) Crazy glue, 7) ORT powder, if you need to replace fluid in a hurry, 8) Prepackaged antibacterial infant wipes, if you're not going to have water to spare for cleaning minor wounds.

Have never used Quick Clot, haven't seen a sucking chest wound or perforated major artery since Basic, but plan to look into the gauze.

Originally Posted by XXX-er

that's why I prefer the ER/anesthesiologist over the GP/obstetrician and besides the GP is almost impossible to keep up with on tour

I thought that was 'cuz the anesthesiologist had better drugs

Other small items to consider-- a good pair of splinter forceps--some work better than others (probably not necessary on a trip above timberline), and (not really first aid)-- tiny screws and a tiny screwdriver for glasses (if anyone on the trip has them)

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(My partner needs Glacier Peak to complete his quest to ski from the summit of every PNW peak > 10k that is skiable from the summit. I have Lassen, Shasta, Shastina, Baker-Grant, Baker-Sherman, Adams, Rainier, South Sister -- still haven't skied Middle Sister at all, and haven't skied quite from the very top of Hood.)


what 10k peaks are there that aren't skiable from the summit? Sorry a bit OT.

You haven't skied from the top of Hood? haven't you been up there a lot? Hell, I'd do that with you, that was the most fun of all the volcanoes i've skied so far.

Jefferson & North Sister are over 10k but aren't skiable from above 10k.

The irony with Hood is that although I've skied from Hogsback a bunch of times, Snowdome twice, Wy'East Face once and lower down from that side a bunch of times, I've never been to the summit. My understanding is that the skiing down the main climbing route is usually ridiculous -- like skiing a staircase b/c of all the boot ladders.
Then again, the same is supposed to be typical of Shasta's Avalanche Gulch in prime climbing season, and the one time I skied that route (instead of other more skiing-oriented lines), I had absolutely perfect corn, kind of banked up to the skier's left of the main climber's route.
Plus if I'm getting close to completing the list, then I have to ski from the top of Hood even if it's just skiing for the sake of skiing! (I've done that from the top of Adams many times -- in fact, each time I ski from the very summit the conditions seem to be even worse that the prior time.)

Did you ski it recently with all the new snow smoothing out the route?

No, I skied it two years ago. It was rimed like everything else at that elevation, but totally manageable. Probably 40 degrees, at most 45, and about 1.5 ski lengths wide in that upper chute (which is really quite short and has a good runout). I did a few controlled jump turns + sideslip, then straight-lined out the lower section onto some great corn (it was getting sun). I'll never forget the faces of the roped party I passed as I zipped out of the chute.