The fix for illegal immigration

**stupendous man** · 05-24-2010, 12:26 PM

The reason why nothing will get done on illegal immigration is that any rational, non-discriminatory means to end the problem are political non-starters. Even worse, their non-starters for the right-wingers that hate illegal immigration the most.

Here's how you tackle the source of illegal immigration:

1. Put the burden on all employers to pay all taxes and benefits for all workers. For undocumented workers, rate doubles. Audit seasonally. The response will be fucking fast. Prices will go up, some employers will go out of business, especially in the border states. Hotels and restaurants and agriculture will suffer across the west, but you'll have less illegals.

2. Put back in place the assault weapons ban. No weapons sales at all within 200 miles of the border. Stop gangs from coming over to buy weapons. Yes, the right wing will never go for any minute pull on the second amendment as they see it. But many illegals are coming over to get guns they can't get in Mexico.

3. End the war on drugs. Make legal the raising of drug crops in the US for sale to US customers at a cheaper price. Fat chance, I know. But it will end a massive part of the drug trade, which is a massive part of the illegal immigration problem.

gunit130 · 05-24-2010, 02:06 PM

How about this:

We make the US a shitty place to live. No one will want to come here anymore, then we'll see US citizen illegal immigration to Canada! I will finally be able to move to Whistler.

**Viva** · 05-24-2010, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by stupendous man

The reason why nothing will get done on illegal immigration is that any rational, non-discriminatory means to end the problem are political non-starters. Even worse, their non-starters for the right-wingers that hate illegal immigration the most.

Here's how you tackle the source of illegal immigration:

1. Put the burden on all employers to pay all taxes and benefits for all workers. For undocumented workers, rate doubles. Audit seasonally. The response will be fucking fast. Prices will go up, some employers will go out of business, especially in the border states. Hotels and restaurants and agriculture will suffer across the west, but you'll have less illegals.

2. Put back in place the assault weapons ban. No weapons sales at all within 200 miles of the border. Stop gangs from coming over to buy weapons. Yes, the right wing will never go for any minute pull on the second amendment as they see it. But many illegals are coming over to get guns they can't get in Mexico.

3. End the war on drugs. Make legal the raising of drug crops in the US for sale to US customers at a cheaper price. Fat chance, I know. But it will end a massive part of the drug trade, which is a massive part of the illegal immigration problem.

Should I laugh, should I cry, should I poop...

**Spats** · 05-24-2010, 03:58 PM

People who have no concept of the issues or the facts behind them, but who already know how to solve all of them with draconian yet ineffective measures: so hot right now.

Originally Posted by stupendous man

2. Put back in place the assault weapons ban. No weapons sales at all within 200 miles of the border. Stop gangs from coming over to buy weapons. Yes, the right wing will never go for any minute pull on the second amendment as they see it. But many illegals are coming over to get guns they can't get in Mexico.

You do know that's been proven completely false, right? That Clinton, Feinstein, Holder, Hoover, and Obama deliberately lied to you?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-mexico-come/

"What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.
[...]
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S."

And second, Mexico already has draconian gun control. See how well it works there? The only people with guns are the (corrupt) police and the (brutal) drug lords -- exactly the people you're scared of.

Finally, coyotes are smuggling PEOPLE all over the USA, and we can't stop it. Guns are a lot smaller than people. How can banning weapons sales near the border possibly work? Answer: it can't.

Originally Posted by stupendous man

3. End the war on drugs.

Hey, I actually agree with you! But that doesn't solve the illegal immigration problem, which isn't the same thing as the drug trade.

**toast2266** · 05-24-2010, 04:26 PM

The whole thing about the guns seems really stupid.

1) If your concern is illegal immigrants, why do you care about Mexicans that are coming into the US, buying guns, and then returning to Mexico? They visited. They didn't immigrate (legally or otherwise). If they come over and stay (illegally), I'm guessing that buying a gun was not their primary impetus for doing so.

2) If people are willing to drive over the border to buy a gun, they're willing to drive an extra hour or two. Similarly, if people are willing to illegally sell guns to Mexicans, they're willing to drive across the border and make the sale in Mexico.

You're confusing issues with violence along the border with illegal immigration. They're sometimes related, but not the same.

**Jer** · 05-24-2010, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by stupendous man

Even worse, their non-starters for the right-wingers that hate illegal immigration the most.

You mean the 60-70% of Americans who say they are against illegal immigration? If 60-70% of Americans are right-wing hate monger racists, how the fuck did Obama get elected?

Oh yeah - it's "they're", not "their". Where's that proof-reader when you need him?

Originally Posted by gunit130

We make the US a shitty place to live.

You'll be pleased to know this strategy is already being implimented!

**jfost** · 05-24-2010, 05:46 PM

we get it Spats, assault weapons are a good thing...

When you say 83% of guns used in Mexican crimes are not from the US, to me that means we can "control" 17% of the problem - not a small measure.

edit: 17% does not equal "small fraction"

that is yet another example of misleading words chosen deliberately (and in this case ironically) in an attempt to downplay the over-reporting of the role of US guns used in Mexican crimes. Bread&butter baby.

**Jer** · 05-24-2010, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by jfost

assault weapons

You win the prize for broadest most vague term used yet in this thread, my friend!

The prize is...

BRUTAL PWNAGE!!!

**coolcheech** · 05-24-2010, 05:51 PM

I want to chime in on my pipe dream too:

First we pull every one of our troops out of foreign countries, and we use those troops to line our borders and coasts, man our airports, and provide a real barrier to illegal entry.

Then we give full citizenship to all illegals already here. Who are we kidding? They're not going anywhere, and most of them are better Americans than the citizens born here.

Then we get rid of all welfare, and the government subsidizes companies for all unskilled labor. This way if anyone gets through our military protected borders, companies won't be looking to hire cheaper unskilled laborers, because nothing is cheaper than free.

That's my book report.

**jfost** · 05-24-2010, 05:53 PM

a small fraction of Jer's posts result in "brutal pwnage"

like 9/10

**Pow4Brains** · 05-24-2010, 06:38 PM

What happened to the seasonal worker idea?

**OSECS** · 05-24-2010, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Pow4Brains

What happened to the seasonal worker idea?

I think that's a great concept.

**Phill** · 05-24-2010, 07:17 PM

daily brain fart

Minimum wages (government or union) just hide the true value of labor. As a result it drives illegal immigration and all of the related problems while at the same time driving industry to more competitive locations. Manufacturing has already fled the United States for this reason, right now the mostly service based economy is holding up the last vestiges which only remain in place due to federal subsidies and protectionist import taxes.

A continuation along this path will only result in two things: Subversion of laws by employers and employees alike undermining any authority held by the central government. And the growth of more competitive economies which will indirectly undermine what remains of the current local economy.

Brainfarts, like real ones, often come up unexpectedly, usually stink, and almost surely will dissipate quickly. However, while this one remains in the air, anyone care to comment?

**nutcase** · 05-24-2010, 07:19 PM

Just allow everyone in the world to come here no questions asked. There - I fixed illegal immigration.

**jfost** · 05-24-2010, 09:31 PM

^ not a bad thought... we've got the most/best usable unused space in the world. My plan has already allocated the AZ/NM desert to Israel - but there's plenty more out there.

**Pow4Brains** · 05-24-2010, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by OSECS

I think that's a great concept.

Someone’s got to pick the tobacco and lettuce since most American consumers are above it yet want the lowest price.

**Jumper Bones** · 05-25-2010, 01:15 AM

Put landmines all over the border. Problem solved.

Completely inhumane, and just about as draconian as limiting the rights of law-abiding US citizens to combat this issue.

On the assault weapons issue - the drug cartels already excel at bringing stuff you're not supposed to have into places that aren't supposed to have it. So making them illegal in the US only screws Americans, because they'll get them from anywhere else they please, and it won't be much more of a challenge. That assumes believing the stats about American guns in Mexico anyway, which I don't. Also, as said, Mexico has some awesome gun control already in place, see how well that's working out for them...

**Alaskan Rover** · 05-25-2010, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jumper Bones

....//....Completely inhumane, and just about as draconian as limiting the rights of law-abiding US citizens to combat this issue.

On the assault weapons issue - the drug cartels already excel at bringing stuff you're not supposed to have into places that aren't supposed to have it. So making them illegal in the US only screws Americans, because they'll get them from anywhere else they please, and it won't be much more of a challenge. That assumes believing the stats about American guns in Mexico anyway, which I don't. Also, as said, Mexico has some awesome gun control already in place, see how well that's working out for them...

+1 on both points!!

On point one: It never fails to amaze me that the group of people who so adamantly oppose any governmental intervention, blindly call for MUCH more govrnmental growth and intervention when it comes to things like limiting our freedom. What the FUCK is up with that shit??

Our government grew more under that prick bush in the whitehouse than it did under ANY previous prick in the whitehouse...and he was the "Conservative" hero for a spell. That jackass and his co-conspirators like Rove and Cheney and Rumsfield DUPED a whole nation.

On point two: Gun Control is just one more mis-placed jack-boot endeavor. I don't think I would feel "safe" in a nation where only the fucking cops had guns anymore than I'd feel safe in Nazi Germany

**Jer** · 05-25-2010, 04:44 PM

I've fired automatic weapons twice: in Poland and in Mexico. Just sayin'.

**waxman** · 05-25-2010, 05:48 PM

don't most of the guns "from the USA" in mexico originate from the Mexican military?
where else are the "cartels" getting M2HBs that sell for 10s of thousands (if not more) legaly in the states to class 3 permit holders....
the bad guys aren't picking those up at the local flea market...

**Hugh Conway** · 05-25-2010, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by Phill

based economy is holding up the last vestiges which only remain in place due to federal subsidies and protectionist import taxes.

anyone care to comment?

1) aside from the stupid steal tariffs what "import taxes" do we currently have?

2) most of the competitors of our corporations are subsidized by their respective countries. See: China, Japan, Korea, EU

gee - I'm sure the landmines will do a shitload of good with tunnels under them. JUmper gets the prize for Soviet genius!

**Jumper Bones** · 05-26-2010, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

gee - I'm sure the landmines will do a shitload of good with tunnels under them. JUmper gets the prize for Soviet genius!

Seismic mines for the win!!!

Tunnels haven't worked all that great on the Korean DMZ...

**Hugh Conway** · 05-26-2010, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Jumper Bones

Tunnels haven't worked all that great on the Korean DMZ...

because the only NORKs who can buy anything <cash dipshit> already get it overseas perhaps?

**Jumper Bones** · 05-26-2010, 11:22 AM

Actually I was thinking of tunnels for invasion of the south, to bypass the DMZ minefields.

**jfost** · 05-26-2010, 11:35 AM

I love the "Mexico has strict gun control and see how well it works?" argument...

They have public water too, want to compare how we do it better?

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