Thread: My brakes feel undergunned

I've run Hope Minis for as long as I can remember. For the first time, I've noticed that they feel a bit undergunned on my Knolly. They've just been bled, so I'm not sure that is the issue. Is it time to move up to a dual piston brake from the bigger bike?

1. how clean are the rotors?
2. how fresh are the brake pads?
3. what size rotors are you running?
4. what compound brake pad are you using?

the minis i have ridden are powerful enough for a dh bike w/ 8" rotors.


though... i have 10/11 saints. new never ridden.

will trade for minis and a little $$$?

and i should be able to finally make it over...

Originally Posted by marshalolson

1. how clean are the rotors?
2. how fresh are the brake pads?
3. what size rotors are you running?
4. what compound brake pad are you using?

the minis i have ridden are powerful enough for a dh bike w/ 8" rotors.


though... i have 10/11 saints. new never ridden.

will trade for minis and a little $$$?

and i should be able to finally make it over...

8 in front, 7 in the rear. Good question regarding the rotors being cleaned. That may be a good place to start. Pretty sure I'm using the EBC pads you got for me last year. Do you know how heavy the Saints are?

And I'll add, they stop. They just have kind of a dead feeling, not stop on the dime that I am used to. But I guess I don't notice that on my hardtail (also run Minis).

Bigger guy on a burly trail bike with light XC brakes? I'm no e-authority but that seems a bit mis-matched. I know that kind of combination works for many, but I would rather have overkill brakes than save a few grams. I run Formula The Ones on my XC bike. Part of that is I simply used what I had from my previous bike. But we also have long fast descents, and I need brakes that don't go kaput. There is a video floating around mtbr of a guy descending a CO 14er when his brakes boiled into, literally, thin air resulting in one of the better crash scenes out there. Edit: Found it!



If you like Hopes, how about the M4? I have a crush on them -- generally love the feel of Hope levers. I like my Formula The One brakes. They are crazy light for their power with excellent modulation. They have plenty of quirks although I think quirky is a reality with most brakes.

I had M4s on my Uzzi (which truth now owns). Best. Brake. Ever.

I even bought them from Uncle Crud.

the mini is every bit as powerful or more powerful than "the one" brakes, and every bit, more, reliable.

i am 215+ lbs and would, without pause, run minis on a dh bike.

the saints are 329g front, 342g rear.

the hopes are 255g front, 264g rear.

so you would add about 1/4 pound. i feel like cleaning the rotor and checking the pad wear, or pad contamination is the key. there is no way those brakes are not crisp as fuck without 1 of those 2 things being off.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the mini is every bit as powerful or more powerful than "the one" brakes, and every bit, more, reliable.

i am 215+ lbs and would, without pause, run minis on a dh bike.

the saints are 329g front, 342g rear.

the hopes are 255g front, 264g rear.

so you would add about 1/4 pound. i feel like cleaning the rotor and checking the pad wear, or pad contamination is the key. there is no way those brakes are not crisp as fuck without 1 of those 2 things being off.

I will do the above.

I'll 2nd Marshal. Definitely sounds like contamination. I had the exact same problem with my Martas last year after I accidentally handled the pad face while installing them.

Originally Posted by Rontele

I even bought them from Uncle Crud.

eWhere is he these days?

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the mini is every bit as powerful or more powerful than "the one" brakes, and every bit, more, reliable.

For the modest nature of Front Range riding, I could see that.

Never used the minis, what the fuck do I know? I have just never had good luck with lighter mtb gear.

there is alot more than meadow skipping on buff trails around here.

Originally Posted by Arty50

I'll 2nd Marshal. Definitely sounds like contamination. I had the exact same problem with my Martas last year after I accidentally handled the pad face while installing them.

What did you do to decontiminate the rotors and pads?

rotor- put a little denatured alcohol or isopropyl or similar on a CLEAN rag (with the wheel off the bike) and rub the rotor. wait about 10 minutes to dry or more before re-installing rotor on bike. do ot touch rotor with fingers.

pads- pull from bike. check to see if the surface looks wet or shiny, or how much material is left. find a CLEAN, fairly fine file, and rub the pad back and forth on it a bit to try and rough the pad back into being more matte in appearance. if the pad is soak in something oily, then you need to check the caliper of a leak (highly doubtful) and probably throw away and replace. also, push the pistons back into the calier all the way.

word.

^ this ftw

If you've got pad contamination the only way to truly get rid of it is new pads (but you knew that).

You can "clean" them using a file or trying to burn the contaminent out of the pad but at the end of the day nothing is as good as a clean rotor with a brand new pad (after it breaks in of course)

And yeah, those brakes should BITE.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

find a CLEAN, fairly fine file, and rub the pad back and forth

Only rub against the teeth on the file, rubbing back along the teeth will dull a file.

true, poorly phrased. thanks.

I also use those green scratch pads for dishes (or some steel wool) on the rotors and pads- drench them in alcohol (iso or whatever) and scrub.

FWIW-- I know lots of guys who use juicys on their dh bikes no prob. . . . (and depending on the cond of my pads and rotors w/ codes. . . theirs sometimes feels better-- pads and rotors make a huge diff when they aren't glazed over like a stoner in a physics class.

Originally Posted by summitmtn420

pads and rotors make a huge diff when they aren't glazed over like a stoner in a physics class.

You haven't truly lived until you've discussed relativity in a college level physics class while high on pain meds.

Originally Posted by cowdog

There is a video floating around mtbr of a guy descending a CO 14er when his brakes boiled into, literally, thin air resulting in one of the better crash scenes out there. Edit: Found it!

Hey I know some of the guys from that video. I don't remember them mentioning a brake failure but I think that was from 2 summers ago so I could have easily forgot.

I had Juicy 7s on my XC bike, fade problems. I went back to Hayes Mags, much happier. I upgraded to Strokers for this year. I have Stroker Aces on my DH bike and I've been very impressed. I guess I'm a Hayes guy.

Originally Posted by Ithnu

Hey I know some of the guys from that video. I don't remember them mentioning a brake failure but I think that was from 2 summers ago so I could have easily forgot.

I had Juicy 7s on my XC bike, fade problems. I went back to Hayes Mags, much happier. I upgraded to Strokers for this year. I have Stroker Aces on my DH bike and I've been very impressed. I guess I'm a Hayes guy.

From his own account, brake failure.

[ame="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=318866"]got brakes? mt. elbert yard sale - Mountain Bike Forums[/ame]

Originally Posted by Rontele

I've run Hope Minis for as long as I can remember. For the first time, I've noticed that they feel a bit undergunned on my Knolly. They've just been bled, so I'm not sure that is the issue. Is it time to move up to a dual piston brake from the bigger bike?

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the minis i have ridden are powerful enough for a dh bike w/ 8" rotors.

Originally Posted by Rontele

And I'll add, they stop. They just have kind of a dead feeling, not stop on the dime that I am used to. But I guess I don't notice that on my hardtail (also run Minis).

Originally Posted by cowdog

I run Formula The Ones on my XC bike. Part of that is I simply used what I had from my previous bike. But we also have long fast descents, and I need brakes that don't go kaput.
...

If you like Hopes, how about the M4? I have a crush on them -- generally love the feel of Hope levers. I like my Formula The One brakes. They are crazy light for their power with excellent modulation. They have plenty of quirks although I think quirky is a reality with most brakes.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the mini is every bit as powerful or more powerful than "the one" brakes, and every bit, more, reliable.

...
i feel like cleaning the rotor and checking the pad wear, or pad contamination is the key. there is no way those brakes are not crisp as fuck without 1 of those 2 things being off.

i ran hopes for a long time, including the mono mini. i loved the hope modulation and generally found the brakes reliable.

i switched over to formula "the one" (2009 version; they updated them for 2010 -- lighter, stronger) and was more than impressed. my own experience was different from marshal's in that i found the formulas to have modulation at least as good as that of the hopes, but also i found them to be more powerful -- and they do not fade.

my hopes had plenty of power, but they tended to fade on longer descents. the formulas just don't.

i was even more impressed when i switched from the stock (sintered) pads to some goodridge pads.

of course, if i were you i'd try cleaning the rotors + cleaning (or replacing the pads) first. i'd probably even try to top off that bleed.

marshal may have more experience than i do with both hopes and formulas, but i was so impressed by the formulas that i got a set of k24's for a new build. i rode hopes (various incarnations) from 2002 - last season, and have only been on the formulas last year. earlier models of formula brakes -- like when they were first introduced -- are noted to be much less reliable, so be advised if buying used or NOS.

i would have gotten new "the ones" if not for the price. (i got my 2009 "the ones" for a song, and i scored the k24's for a great deal.)

the hope bleed process is pretty easy, and while that of the formulas is regarded as "quirky" (basically 2 syringes), i actually found it to be less messy and just as easy (after the first time) as the hope process. both use DOT fluid, so no real savings there.

if you are considering switching brakes but don't want to lose that hope lever feel, you owe it to yourself to at least consider formulas (IMO).

thread side note: anyone checked out "nuke proof" aftermarket pads?

then again, maybe adding these hope rotors will help?

I pretty much have to have those rotors now that I know they exist.



Thanks. Thanks a lot.

piggybacking: what brake should someone who is 270 lbs and ugly get? marshal's saints if rontele passes?