Thread: Healthcare Summit

Might as well have been another beer summit.

UPDATE:
Democrats have talked for nearly twice as long as Republicans have so far this morning. Before Democratic Rep. Jim Clyburn started talking, the time of possession was:

Democrats: about 74 minutes
Republicans: about 37 minutes


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

It is unclear from the summit so far as to whether the president has read any of the senate bill.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

UPDATE:
Democrats have talked for nearly twice as long as Republicans have so far this morning. Before Democratic Rep. Jim Clyburn started talking, the time of possession was:

Democrats: about 74 minutes
Republicans: about 37 minutes

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

I've been listening to the Summit online while working much of the morning. I loved Obama's response to the speaking time. He basically told the Republican who provided the time analysis to quit whining and that he has been going back and forth between the two parties. He then said the times include himself talking and pointed out that he's President so piss off. He also gave McCain a verbal backhand slap after he again went after the process of healthcare rather than talk about healthcare.

For not having any teleprompters in front of him he sure is doing a good job of responding to the Republican's talking points.

I also love the Democrats tactic. Several of them have gone through the Republican talking points, talking point by talking point and address how the existing bill basically address each one of them.

Some of the Republicans made some good points, but overall it is too much whining about the process and not discussing healthcare.

I wish I could listen to the rest, but I have to watch an aquatic organism passage webcast this afternoon.

Originally Posted by Missing Sock

It is unclear from the summit so far as to whether the president has read any of the senate bill.

Apparently you missed a few of the exchanges he had with the Republicans. For example he directly address Senator Cantor's point about millions of people moving to the healthcare exchange under the Senate version. Obama said that those people would move because the healthcare exchange would offer better coverage.

An example of the responses Obama is using to counter the Republican talking points.

FACT CHECK: Obama has edge in debate over premiums

The mistake the repubs will make is to debate details. EVERYTHING is in the Senate bill. Obama can say, hey we got that covered we all agree with each other.

Repubs need to stay above the details of the bill and remind everyone that it won't matter if the current bill addresses portability, premium cost, defensive medicine, fraud.... because once it is passed, government involvement and regulation will swamp the private system and all the details about what is and isn't included will become irrelivant.

This TV event is a debate about something that won't ever matter. If the bill passes, the government will eventually take over the healthcare industry.

Damn, Obama is giving the Republicans a ultimatum. He seems to have found his balls.

Originally Posted by Grange

I loved Obama's response to the speaking time. He basically told the Republican who provided the time analysis to quit whining

See Grange - this is why guys like you will never get it. Most of America doesn't like it when people act like complete arrogant douchebags (your quote and Barry telling McCain that "the election is over"). You guys think it's cool because you are arrogant douchebags (sorry, but it's true), but most people just find it really rude and childish.

I didn't listen to a whole lot of it, but what I did hear were Reps sticking to the bills and the subject at hand, Dems emotionally regurgitating healthcare horror stories and Obama stammering and comming off like a petulent arrogant douchebag. At least before halftime. At halftime his coaches must have told him to ease up on being an asshole.

Are you kidding or just are you another partisan douche. Obama was just better at debating than every Republican in that room and he showed them how easy it was to refute their talking points. I'd bet you'd call his exchange with Senator Alexander about the CBO report an arrogant response when in reality he just used facts to get his point across.

As far as the Republicans sticking to the subject at hand well you obviously didn't listen to a whole lot of it. They were constantly talking about how they need to toss out the existing bill and start over piece by piece. Every time the Democrats tried to explain how a particular talking point was addressed in the bill the Republicans ignored them and continued to bitch about the health care process.

Add in the petty bitching like McCain whining about C-Span cameras and another Republican (I forgot who) bringing up the time issue and the Republicans as a whole showed themselves as not much more as obstructionists.

Originally Posted by Grange

As far as the Republicans sticking to the subject at hand well you obviously didn't listen to a whole lot of it.

Weird because I'm pretty sure when Cantor was using the senate bill to question Obama on items in the bill the president claimed it was just a stage prop. If the repubs weren't supposed to talk about the bill what the hell were they there for?

As far as McCain, he questioned Obama about the backroom deals in the bill and Barack rather than answering the question decided to blow him off. But credit to him for circling back on it in the afternoon. His coaches must have told him during the break how poorly that looked to shrug off $500 million+ in shady deals

And as far as starting over? It is what the American people want.....

They were there to offer ideas and say what they want in a health care bill. Instead they bitched about the process at every turn and then stuck to talking points. For just about every talking point they repeated the Democrats explained how the bill address it. Instead of Republicans trying to work with the Democrats to improve that part of the bill (from the Republican perspective) they basically ignored the bill except to complain about the length.

McCain's rebuke from Obama was because he tried to change the conversation by using a Republican talking point. Obama who was running the meeting was not going to fall for his tactic.

I agree with DBT finally.


Why hasn't there been another beer summit?

Here's my take (not that anyone asked): healthcare != health insurance.

if you want to reform health insurance, let's talk, but let's not pretend that health care is the same as health insurance, which most people treat as "pre-paid medical care".

Originally Posted by Grange

I've been listening to the Summit online while working much of the morning. I loved Obama's response to the speaking time. He basically told the Republican who provided the time analysis to quit whining and that he has been going back and forth between the two parties. He then said the times include himself talking and pointed out that he's President so piss off. He also gave McCain a verbal backhand slap after he again went after the process of healthcare rather than talk about healthcare.

For not having any teleprompters in front of him he sure is doing a good job of responding to the Republican's talking points.

I also love the Democrats tactic. Several of them have gone through the Republican talking points, talking point by talking point and address how the existing bill basically address each one of them.

Some of the Republicans made some good points, but overall it is too much whining about the process and not discussing healthcare.

I wish I could listen to the rest, but I have to watch an aquatic organism passage webcast this afternoon.



Apparently you missed a few of the exchanges he had with the Republicans. For example he directly address Senator Cantor's point about millions of people moving to the healthcare exchange under the Senate version. Obama said that those people would move because the healthcare exchange would offer better coverage.

Good for you grange. You've been listening, but apparently not hearing.

Pres. Obamas remarks about "still campaigning" to Sen. Mc Cain regarding the payoffs by Democrats to Louisiana and Nebraska to vote for the healthcare bill were priceless. I would have thought it would have gone more like this (when mature adults, bent on fixing an issue of such extreme import was at hand):

McCain: we have crafted such a poor bill that we had to pay off states to sign on their agreement to the whole mess.

Pres. Obama: John you are correct. We should have never done that, and we'll take care of that this time around.

Instead it was this.

I just got called out for conducting back room politics (something I said couldn't/wouldn't happen in my transparent administration) and now I'm gonna distract the issue with a meaningless jab about campaigning to my last opponent. I guess presenting facts isn't something our president likes to deal with, at least when those facts don't paint him and his party in the best light.

Boy how mature and responsible a man we have in the oval office. This really illustrates how thin skinned a man Pres. Obama appears to be. Not the type of comments I'd expect my president to make concerning an issue of bribery and misuse of public funds.

Originally Posted by OSECS

Good for you grange. You've been listening, but apparently not hearing.

Pres. Obamas remarks about "still campaigning" to Sen. Mc Cain regarding the payoffs by Democrats to Louisiana and Nebraska to vote for the healthcare bill were priceless. I would have thought it would have gone more like this (when mature adults, bent on fixing an issue of such extreme import was at hand):

McCain: we have crafted such a poor bill that we had to pay off states to sign on their agreement to the whole mess.

Pres. Obama: John you are correct. We should have never done that, and we'll take care of that this time around.

Instead it was this.

I just got called out for conducting back room politics (something I said couldn't/wouldn't happen in my transparent administration) and now I'm gonna distract the issue with a meaningless jab about campaigning to my last opponent. I guess presenting facts isn't something our president likes to deal with, at least when those facts don't paint him and his party in the best light.

Boy how mature and responsible a man we have in the oval office. This really illustrates how thin skinned a man Pres. Obama appears to be. Not the type of comments I'd expect my president to make concerning an issue of bribery and misuse of public funds.

Did you watch the Summit or just catch a video clip? It was McCain who first brought up the campaign in his speech. He then tried changing the topic by using the Republican talking point about Obama's lie regarding C-Span cameras and seemlessly transitioned in to backroom deals as though it was Obama that crafted them. Remember it was Obama's meeting and he was running it. McCain tried to change topics and Obama wasn't going to let that happen.

When McCain brought up another "backroom" deal in Florida without bringing up the campaign to try to change the topic Obama acknowledged his point.

I listened to some of the summit, but didn't hear that exchange. I saw it on two sources, The Daily Show and our local ABC affiliate. Both cut/edited along similar lines. I certainly know editors create their own personal angle perspective.

The Daily show clip was hilarious cause McCains comments were edited strictly on the pay off to states, and Stewarts only response was "oooooooh Pres. Obama really got him good there boy". Curious no mention of hey, ya know he's right, he was maybe campaigning, but what about that pay off pres. O ?? Pay attention to image and ignore underlying facts, yeah that's a great way to run the country.

Bottom line he called out the admin. for paying off 2 states and the response was stop campaigning ?? Dude, that's not how PRESIDENTS are supposed to act. They're supposed to be above any (alleged after the fact campaigning).

How was Obama's Administration responsible for the pay offs of the two states in the Senate healthcare bill? Because that is what McCain was talking about. Are those payoffs in his plan that he released a few days ago? I know the payoff for Nebraska was removed, but not sure about the other one.

The bottom line was McCain brought up the campaign to throw out an attack unrelated to the topic of discussion at that time so he could then tie Obama to the back room deals made by the Senate Democrats. Obama basically replied stick to the topic at hand.

Originally Posted by Grange

How was Obama's Administration responsible for the pay offs of the two states in the Senate healthcare bill? Because that is what McCain was talking about. Are those payoffs in his plan that he released a few days ago? I know the payoff for Nebraska was removed, but not sure about the other one.

The bottom line was McCain brought up the campaign to throw out an attack unrelated to the topic of discussion at that time so he could then tie Obama to the back room deals made by the Senate Democrats. Obama basically replied stick to the topic at hand.

You're seriously gonna try and pretend Pres. Obama didn't know about the payoff plans to both states, well before the news was made public ?

Had the bill been presented to him to sign with the bribes in the document he wouldn't have signed it ?? I really couldn't care less if it was campaigning at this point (which it wasn't) cause the two acts should have never fucking been in the bill in the first place. The admin. knew and I'm sure approved the back room deal in the first place. McCain put egg in the presidents face and President Obama didn't like it.

Pres. Obama has a major boner for getting health care reform passed and would or will sell his soul to the devil to see it through.

Originally Posted by OSECS

I listened to some of the summit, but didn't hear that exchange. I saw it on two sources, The Daily Show and our local ABC affiliate. Both cut/edited along similar lines. I certainly know editors create their own personal angle perspective.

The Daily show clip was hilarious cause McCains comments were edited strictly on the pay off to states, and Stewarts only response was "oooooooh Pres. Obama really got him good there boy". Curious no mention of hey, ya know he's right, he was maybe campaigning, but what about that pay off pres. O ?? Pay attention to image and ignore underlying facts, yeah that's a great way to run the country.

Bottom line he called out the admin. for paying off 2 states and the response was stop campaigning ?? Dude, that's not how PRESIDENTS are supposed to act. They're supposed to be above any (alleged after the fact campaigning).

I agree with Grange on this one. McCain was making comments about procedure rather than discussing where both sides have common ground. It seemed to me that he and the rest of the republicans were trying to take the conversation away from discussing common ground to discuss procedure and then to throw out the bill. That's typical talking points of the republican party on this healthcare bill.

Any conservatives out there care to opine on the republicans use of reconciliation 16 out of the last 22 times it's been used to pass a bill? Yet, the republicans are acting as though it's something that's seldom used. In fact the republicans have used reconciliation to pass the most recent changes to healthcare and other controversial legislation under the GWB, Bush Sr. and Reagan admins.

Of course you do AA, you can't wrap your mind around the fact that the admin. was trying to bribe senators/ congressmen to pass an unpopular plan. President Obama is as pure as the driven snow ??? Right ?? He'd never stoop to politics. Grow up man that's how he got where he is, by playing politics better than the next guy.

McCAIN WAS POINTING OUT THAT THE TWO BRIBES WERE BULLSHIT !! (not yelling, just trying to make pretty basic in your face fact) End of story. President Obama did not appreciate being caught with his parties hand in the cookie jar, and lashed out about political campaigning ?

That Pres. Obama had to formulate a new plan and even have to remove such utterly blatant acts of graft is a joke and points out exactly why so many are opposed to this plan.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

Any conservatives out there care to opine on the republicans use of reconciliation 16 out of the last 22 times it's been used to pass a bill? Yet, the republicans are acting as though it's something that's seldom used. In fact the republicans have used reconciliation to pass the most recent changes to healthcare and other controversial legislation under the GWB, Bush Sr. and Reagan admins.

Weird I thought reconciliation was "arrogance of power"

I think if you looked at the instances when it has been used you would see that they pale in comparison to the size and scope of this overhaul in the health care system. We are talking about almost 1/5 of the U.S. economy. Not to mention the fact that the American people are vehemently against the bill in its current form. If the Dems want to ram it through with the american people kicking and screaming, go ahead its your funeral.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

I agree with Grange on this one. McCain was making comments about procedure rather than discussing where both sides have common ground. It seemed to me that he and the rest of the republicans were trying to take the conversation away from discussing common ground to discuss procedure and then to throw out the bill. That's typical talking points of the republican party on this healthcare bill.

Why do they need to discuss/argue common ground? if its ahhh common ground.

With the Louisiana and Nebraska deals in the senate bill isn't it worth McCain arguing how they got there or even more so are they necessary and beneficial to reform? Seems pretty logical to me regardless of the bullshit way they made it in that if they are in the "health care reform" bill we should be able to argue their merits. Doesn't seem so out of line at all.

Originally Posted by OSECS

You're seriously gonna try and pretend Pres. Obama didn't know about the payoff plans to both states, well before the news was made public ?

Had the bill been presented to him to sign with the bribes in the document he wouldn't have signed it ?? I really couldn't care less if it was campaigning at this point (which it wasn't) cause the two acts should have never fucking been in the bill in the first place. The admin. knew and I'm sure approved the back room deal in the first place. McCain put egg in the presidents face and President Obama didn't like it.

Pres. Obama has a major boner for getting health care reform passed and would or will sell his soul to the devil to see it through.

Oh boo hoo you're trying to do what McCain tried, change the topic. Obama wasn't responsible for those provisions. Hell he got repeatedly attacked by Republicans for not being engaged in the debate and now when it's covenient for the Republicans they blame him for a for a provision of a bill where he was not actively engaged.

Stick to the topic at hand, McCain brought up the presidential campaign promises that were broken (not including that meeting) and Obama told him that wasn't relevant to the adjenda topic they were discussing. You don't like how Obama tried to bring back the discussion to the topic at hand. Too bad, Obama didn't start the attack, but he sure as hell finished it. Obama out debated the Republican party in part because he stuck to the adjenda topics.

Grange, AA, your sycophantic defense of Obama is impressive, in the same way Jack Torrance's literary efforts were impressive in The Shining.

I've said it before on here, if the (getting somewhat desperate looking) Republicans have a better solution, better than let's not do it 'cause it will raise taxes, then put it on the table and get it up for a vote.

Otherwise, STFU and quite snibbling. Whatever approach the Republicans advocated for the past 20 years is obviously not working.