Thread: the case for overlap boots

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I've done a search and nothing came up... I'm looking to be getting a new pair of ski boots in the near future and have recently become aware of the Raichle Flexon/ Full Tilt/ Dalbello 3 piece design. I see things saying the flex is more natural, easier to get into, flex adjustability by swapping tongues (which I think is really cool), etc.. In all the reviews I've seen, it looks that the only advantage overlap boots have is the stiffness factor- and I've heard the new 10 flex from FT is equivalent to a 130-140 flex- I'm not a GP racer so I sure wouldn't need anything stiffer than that.

I realize the best boot is one that fits YOU, but say you fit into an overlap and a FT exactly the same- what are the pros and cons of each?

Thanks fellas! (And ladies)

I object!

with an overlap boot you can adjust the volume a bit with the 2 halves of the shell. a 3 prt shell will not change that much by tightening the calbes/buckles, etc. Great if the volume fits you right to start with, harder to make a poor fit better.

The adjustable flex on 3 prt is nice, but once you find the right flex, it is not changed that often, and most overlaps come in 3-7 models that all have different flexes.

I was on the Flexon Comp for years and they are a great boot. You won't get shin bang because of the tongue design. The lower plastic buckles were prone to breakage.

The reason I switched to an overlap boot was for the increased lateral stiffness, it was just easier to hold an edge. I now occasionally get shin bang.

I don't know if the Full Tilt's have more lateral stiffness than the old Raichle's, anyone??

I've skied a lot in both the past year or so and I'm a total convert to 3-piece boots. My kryptons feel stiffer than my race boots ever did. I have them as stiff as the Pro can go without riveting the cuff. Dalbello claims it's a 140, feels like a 120 or 130 and it's perfect. Super smooth flex, heel never slides at all, foot feels locked in, and they're very comfy and warm with the ID liner. Love them

I also don't have an issue with lateral stiffness, probably more so on my overlap boots

Mntlion- thanks! I'm aware that you can get the same model of overlap boot in a variety of flexes, but with exception to the boots that have the "walk" mode, you are stuck with the flex that you bought.. If you want something a little stiffer/ softer you have to buy a whole new shell. You say most people find a flex and stick with it, but I think I'd like to swap out tongues depending on where I'm heading/ what type of skiing I'll be doing that day... If I go with some guys from work and we're gonna be charging the mountain, I'll throw the 10 tongue in. But say the week after I'm going skiing with my son- we'll be on the greens most of the day with maybe an easy blue- a stiff boot would be total overkill for that, so I could go with a much softer flex. Then again, maybe you're right and I would never use that option- but it's still nice to have, no?

So is the volume adjustment really the only advantage overlaps have on the 3 pcs? There has to be something else I can't see- why else would that style take up ~ 90% of the market?

Boddysurfer- I've read that the new FT's/ Dalbellos are right about the same in lateral stiffness, and that they're just as stiff as anything else out there, with the exception of race boots.

I skied overlaps till i tried a 3 piece too.

This is my first year in the 3 part design and I have Krypto Pros in the stiffest settings. I came off stiff Rossi Squad overlap boots and I think there are big positives and negative with either style boot. The Kryptos are lighter, warmer, flex is adjustable, reduce shin bang, and lock in the heal real nice and are so much easier to get into especially when cold. However, I do think hard snow performance is significantly better in a stiff overlap style (which is why people only race in them now and many of the mogul competitors are in FT/Kryptos). I'm still breaking mine in but I like them a lot so far. Never tried a FT but I am skeptical about having all cables for buckles.


Edit: I also found that if you don't have the tongues buckled down on the Kryptos wind and snow can get in and make your feet pretty cold when on the chair.

A few other advantages of the 3 piece (Dalbello):

1) A lower flex point than most overlap boots, which works more naturally with your ankle. Take a look at the hinge point... sits way lower than any two piece.
2) When you flex the boot it actually gets narrower in the achilles (your achilles when flexed forward narrows too) which gives a better heel hold.
3) They tend to distort less/ bow out less around the instep/ankle when flexing. Flex a two piece and watch how they get wider.

*this said, I still ski a Tecnica Agent... great feel, performance and better fit in the forefoot.

the 10 flex tounge on a FT is not in the same league in stiffness as a 130 flex boot. try 110 maybe.

I agree with Marshal on this. 110 is about right.

FT w #10 tongue is not as stiff as a Lange 120 for sure, and the Krypton w/stiff tongue is way stiffer overall.

If the OP is mostly skiing on soft snow, the FT is fine. Where it falls down is driving stiff skis at speed on hard snow. Doable, but you will lose some precision in your tuns.

Originally Posted by ryanjfitz

Mntlion- thanks! I'm aware that you can get the same model of overlap boot in a variety of flexes, but with exception to the boots that have the "walk" mode, you are stuck with the flex that you bought.. If you want something a little stiffer/ softer you have to buy a whole new shell. You say most people find a flex and stick with it, but I think I'd like to swap out tongues depending on where I'm heading/ what type of skiing I'll be doing that day... If I go with some guys from work and we're gonna be charging the mountain, I'll throw the 10 tongue in. But say the week after I'm going skiing with my son- we'll be on the greens most of the day with maybe an easy blue- a stiff boot would be total overkill for that, so I could go with a much softer flex. Then again, maybe you're right and I would never use that option- but it's still nice to have, no?

So is the volume adjustment really the only advantage overlaps have on the 3 pcs? There has to be something else I can't see- why else would that style take up ~ 90% of the market?

Boddysurfer- I've read that the new FT's/ Dalbellos are right about the same in lateral stiffness, and that they're just as stiff as anything else out there, with the exception of race boots.

Overlap boots (depending on the make and model) are fairly easy to stiffen/soften, its just more permanent than with a 3-piece boot. Bolting the top cuff to the bottom cuff, or in the case of certain boots removing the factory bolts will change the flex. Beyond that you get into permanent kind of changes like cutting notches in the lower shell to allow the boot to flex more or adding plastic to the shell to increase stiffness.

So, it is MUCH easier to change the flex of a 3 piece boot, but it is still possible to change the flex of a overlap boot.

All that being said, there is a somewhat limited range of fits available in 3-piece boots, make sure you get what fits and not just what you think you need.

I'm a total 3-piece Guy. I had some Kryps, sold them, got some overlaps, skied them about 3 days, and bought Kryps again. And then some FT's...if that tells you anything. Nothing better IMHO.

With AT boots I've had pretty much the opposite experience of most of the folks here. I got really bad shin bang in 3 piece boots (Garmont Mega-Ride) and overlap boots (BD Method and Garmont Radium) felt much more comfortable on tours as well as a better/more precise feel while skiing. I think like most boot discussions it really boils down to what fits and feels the best on your foot and for your use.

Man I really wish they would standardize the flex ratings, would make discussions like this much easier...

So the Kryp Pro (on stiffest settings, no bolts) is stiffer than the 10 FTs? Laterally or forwardly, or both? This is the first I've heard that..

I'm an East [Ice] Coaster, so sadly, not much soft snow skiing for me. I need a boot that will be able to rail the groomers/ ice and hold up fine in bumps.

Making the trip next week to try on both the FTs and Kryps, and probably some overlaps while I'm at it... just wish there was a shop closer that carried them.

Originally Posted by maxtrax

With AT boots I've had pretty much the opposite experience of most of the folks here. I got really bad shin bang in 3 piece boots (Garmont Mega-Ride) and overlap boots (BD Method and Garmont Radium) felt much more comfortable on tours as well as a better/more precise feel while skiing. I think like most boot discussions it really boils down to what fits and feels the best on your foot and for your use.

I am in a similar boat, i get much worse shin bang in my spirit 4's than i do my Lange WC 120's. In the spirit 4's, the only way i can describe it is almost beyond what you can call shin bang--it is very painful on my shins when i flex the boot, especially at the tops of the cuff.