Thread: Edge tuning question: 1 vs. 2 degree

I have a collection of tuning tools, but my side edge tool (Beast) has two side angle shims -- 2 degree and 3 degree. From what I've read, 2 degrees is pretty standard for a side edge, with 1 degree sometimes mentioned for a soft snow ski.

Is there any drawback to tuning my side edges to 2 degrees, on powder skis? Or in other words, should I bother buying a 1 degree side edge shim for the Beast tool?

I'm no expert, but I've been recently tuning all skis (powder and otherwise) at 1 degree base and 2 degree side bevels.

I've got S7's and Lotus 120's tuned this way and I don't notice a difference when skiing pow.

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I have a collection of tuning tools, but my side edge tool (Beast) has two side angle shims -- 2 degree and 3 degree. From what I've read, 2 degrees is pretty standard for a side edge, with 1 degree sometimes mentioned for a soft snow ski.

Is there any drawback to tuning my side edges to 2 degrees, on powder skis? Or in other words, should I bother buying a 1 degree side edge shim for the Beast tool?

Don't bother. The 2° is fine. It's more important to have a consistently smooth and sharp edge than being overly concerned about side edge angles on soft snow. It's easy to change if you want to experiment, however.

Thanks guys -- I'll just use the 2 degree side edge. I didn't think it would matter that much for my intended use.

Curious then: when would someone specifically want a 1 degree side edge? (vs. a 2 degree, or 3 degree)

One school of thought is that a 1:1 (base:side) bevels is a 90° corner and is theoretically more durable than an 89° corner. I haven't tried a 1° side lately, but did sharpen a 2° on one pair of edges and 3° on the other. It was pretty interesting swapping skis to really feel the difference on the same skis, same terrain and snow type. The 3° is grippier, while the 2° was easier and smoother to transition to the edge.

Since everyone here straight lines, side edge angles don't matter anyway.

Originally Posted by Alpinord

Since everyone here straight lines, side edge angles don't matter anyway.

And straightlines in a foot of pow, so edges themselves are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Beyond

And straightlines in a foot of pow, so edges themselves are irrelevant.

Ahh? that explains the guy on 186 Lhasa pows who
I watched ski right onto the concrete patio @ the GMD last week/ Base and tune do not matter to the core skier dudes?

Base bevel has far great impact on skiing than anything. I demoed a pair of skis a few weeks back that had been put through the base grinder, but had not been tuned, so they had a flat base, ie no bevel and were almost unskiable. I have tried a both a 1 and 2 degree edge bevel on various skis and find it make a very subtle difference, depending on the ski. Slight variations in base bevel seems to have far greater effect on a ski than side bevel. And it is the relationship between side and base as well. 90 degree relationship gives best durabilitiy. 89 or even 88 give better grip. 1 base 2 side (89 dgree) is the most common compromise between Edge grip and edge durability. I know that Praxis has experimented with more base bevel to make their skis more slarvey. On my powder specific skis like Praxis, I put a 1/1 side base bevel. The edges don't matter much in powder, it is really only skiing the harder snow where it comes into play. On rockered skis, there has been a lot of recent discussion of 1 degree base bevel and increasing to 1.5 at tips and tails to prevent them from hooking up on firm snow if and when the rockered sections do make contact in deep turns. I found recently, demoing some rockered skis, that this actually has a tendency to happen. It is a whole new issue coming into play in edge tuning.

There are many who seem to prefer de-tuning rockered skis vs changing base bevels. It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out with more skiers on conventional cambers and rockered tips over the next couple years.

I put a 2base:3side = 89 on my mavens. It's amazing how much smoother they are from edge to edge on firmer snow.

I have never noticed bevels in pow, but have always noticed bevels on groomers.

I do everything at 1/3 base/side.

I go 1/3 on all my skis, including Lhasa's but I do de-tune the Lhasa tip & tails more aggressively than my other sticks. I don't think bevel angle makes much of a difference in pow and I prefer a more solid edge when running out on the groomers.

Anyone tried putting a 1/2 or 1/3 base/side bevel directly underfoot then 1/1 for the tips and tails on an R/R ski like the praxis pow? Seems like it wouldnt make it hooky but could help with grip on harder/icier snow.

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I have a collection of tuning tools, but my side edge tool (Beast) has two side angle shims -- 2 degree and 3 degree. From what I've read, 2 degrees is pretty standard for a side edge, with 1 degree sometimes mentioned for a soft snow ski.

Is there any drawback to tuning my side edges to 2 degrees, on powder skis? Or in other words, should I bother buying a 1 degree side edge shim for the Beast tool?

Wow. Tonite is base beveler's anonymous in tech talk...

Was talking about it from the hardgnar extremo pov at pmgear's forum with jumpturn -
http://www.pmgear.com/index.php?opti...&catid=4&id=48

Then saw this tune thread - [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184805"]Help what happened to my skis? - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

Then ended up here. Cool.

Originally Posted by Wetdog

Base bevel has far great impact on skiing than anything. I demoed a pair of skis a few weeks back that had been put through the base grinder, but had not been tuned, so they had a flat base, ie no bevel and were almost unskiable. I have tried a both a 1 and 2 degree edge bevel on various skis and find it make a very subtle difference, depending on the ski. Slight variations in base bevel seems to have far greater effect on a ski than side bevel. And it is the relationship between side and base as well. 90 degree relationship gives best durabilitiy. 89 or even 88 give better grip. 1 base 2 side (89 dgree) is the most common compromise between Edge grip and edge durability. I know that Praxis has experimented with more base bevel to make their skis more slarvey. On my powder specific skis like Praxis, I put a 1/1 side base bevel. The edges don't matter much in powder, it is really only skiing the harder snow where it comes into play. On rockered skis, there has been a lot of recent discussion of 1 degree base bevel and increasing to 1.5 at tips and tails to prevent them from hooking up on firm snow if and when the rockered sections do make contact in deep turns. I found recently, demoing some rockered skis, that this actually has a tendency to happen. It is a whole new issue coming into play in edge tuning.

I think the more traditional the rockered shape, the more likely it will be to get hooky. Chunky snow can snag the edge in the rocker. Reverse sidecut in the tip seems better at not catching and slicing through variable conditions. Glad to see more discussions about this. One of the pm gear guys does that tune on his Lhasas. He calls it a progressive tune. I think I'll give it a try.

resurrecting this with a jong question....
just getting into doing edge tuning after waxing for years. Got a pair of green BD zealots and went ahead and tuned the side edge with a 1*. Just found out that the edges supposedly come stock 1*base and 2*side. Woops....big fuck up?
I do a lot of side country touring that inevitably has me skiing nasty chunder/bumps/groomers to and from the pow where I do need an edge. Would my best approach be to keep up with the 1* for awhile and then switch to a 2* if I'm not getting enough edge hold? Anyone ride the zealot with specific recommendations?
Thanks to all...

Originally Posted by TripleT

resurrecting this with a jong question....
just getting into doing edge tuning after waxing for years. Got a pair of green BD zealots and went ahead and tuned the side edge with a 1*. Just found out that the edges supposedly come stock 1*base and 2*side. Woops....big fuck up?
I do a lot of side country touring that inevitably has me skiing nasty chunder/bumps/groomers to and from the pow where I do need an edge. Would my best approach be to keep up with the 1* for awhile and then switch to a 2* if I'm not getting enough edge hold? Anyone ride the zealot with specific recommendations?
Thanks to all...

I ride the green Zealots as well and did the same thing last season. I definitely preferred the 2 degree side bevel for the groomers to get back to the lift, in soft snow I couldn't tell a difference. My biggest recommendation would be to detune at the tips right at the end of where the edge contacts the snow before the early rise tip. It made of world of difference in the hookiness. If I remember correctly BD even recommended this on the spec sticker that was stuck to the skis when I bought them.

Give the 90 degree edge a chance and see if you like it since it should be more durable, if you don't it's not too tough to switch back. I waited till the end of the season when I dropped my skis off at the shop for a grind to switch back to 2 degrees but it could have easily been done at home.

Originally Posted by TripleT

resurrecting this with a jong question....
just getting into doing edge tuning after waxing for years. Got a pair of green BD zealots and went ahead and tuned the side edge with a 1*. Just found out that the edges supposedly come stock 1*base and 2*side. Woops....big fuck up?
I do a lot of side country touring that inevitably has me skiing nasty chunder/bumps/groomers to and from the pow where I do need an edge. Would my best approach be to keep up with the 1* for awhile and then switch to a 2* if I'm not getting enough edge hold? Anyone ride the zealot with specific recommendations?
Thanks to all...

My vote and what I'd do, would be to simply try one bevel angle for a while and then take 15 minutes and change it to the other and see which one you like better over time. Change it back if you want. The amount of material is minuscule in 1° on an edge and very easy to do.

I recently posted this topic in our tuning tips: Adjusting Side Edges 1 Degree. There is a 5 minute video at the end showing the use of a bastard file one edge and a 100x diamond on the other to show comparative time and passes to change the angle and subsequent steps. (Note the video is moody in Firefox and doesn't always load for some reason.)

Additionally, the difference in the durability of a 90° corner versus an 89° corner is probably negligible and performance and edge feel trumps the corner angle, IMO.

Did I mistakenly log into epic ski?

Originally Posted by TripleT

resurrecting this with a jong question....
just getting into doing edge tuning after waxing for years. Got a pair of green BD zealots and went ahead and tuned the side edge with a 1*. Just found out that the edges supposedly come stock 1*base and 2*side. Woops....big fuck up?
I do a lot of side country touring that inevitably has me skiing nasty chunder/bumps/groomers to and from the pow where I do need an edge. Would my best approach be to keep up with the 1* for awhile and then switch to a 2* if I'm not getting enough edge hold? Anyone ride the zealot with specific recommendations?
Thanks to all...

Big fuck up. Send me your skis, bindings, and skins and I will properly dispose of them.

Originally Posted by Wetdog

On rockered skis, there has been a lot of recent discussion of 1 degree base bevel and increasing to 1.5 at tips and tails to prevent them from hooking up on firm snow if and when the rockered sections do make contact in deep turns. I found recently, demoing some rockered skis, that this actually has a tendency to happen. It is a whole new issue coming into play in edge tuning.

that was the norm for us on old straight skis. we'd run 1 1/2 tip, 1 underfoot, 1 1/2 tail for a lot of people. one of the best skiers on the hill back then (bumps, groomers) would have me give him 3 base and 2 or 3 side.

i experimented with every bevel under the sun. i got used to every one tried...there were subtle diferences...it just didn't matter. a smooth clean edge is what really matters.

skiing powdah? 2x4 works

edit - we ran 1 under foot, not 2 as the norm.