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Thread: Putting a rocker in my Sumos?
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04-07-2010, 09:20 PM #101
I know that you don't agree with the methods used.
I can understand why you feel that way, especially being a builder of snowboards.
However, I think everyone who has rockered their skis will agree... its completely worth while if you understand the risks.
Those tahoe's went from an average everyday ski to an awesome addition to my quiver. If they die tomorrow, it'll be completely worth it. I will not regret the modification for one single second.
If someone buys a completely new ski and they have the potential to be bummed if it doesn't work out well; then they're idiots for taking the risk. I (and I think others) had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I check my skis constantly for cracks / delam's etc because I understand the risk of messing with the integrity of epoxy / glass.
I appreciate the technical know-how that you have and can contribute, but if you're going to be a debbie downer then you might as well move along.
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04-08-2010, 10:39 PM #102
Great work guys....SO??? The original post of this thread was how to rocker SUMOS. Did anyone rocker some Sumos? Successfully ? I'm pretty sure there's metal in them. Any of the other skis have metal for sure? What skis, and how successful did it come out?
Asking cause I have Sumos I'd like to rocker like the first poster.
Also, any success with just wood core skis like the Faty Alottas, which I think are just wood?
Thanks, Cheers"People ask us to take them skiing, and I'm like, 'REALLY'? I mean if you want to get in an avalanche or just die somehow, then, YEAH, come with US!" - Nathan Wallace
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04-09-2010, 09:57 AM #103
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04-09-2010, 03:35 PM #104
OK... Thanks for the heads up. I missed the no metal in your earlier post.
I assumed incorrectly that the metal 'honeycomb' beneath the clear sidewalls wrapped over the top sheet. Nada!
As a note, this past fall I clamped a pair of 180 cm F-P Alottas together with a 1 1/4" spacer at the tip contact point and left them for about a month hoping for a bit of early rise in the tips. Didn't even lessen the camber a bit! No heat involved and not as long as a whole summer, but I'd be surprised if that method would do anything to them at all. They do flex much stiffer than my 175 Sumos at the tips.
I also noticed that of the pics in this thread of the successful rocker jobs
completed, the ones with the most abrupt rocker [similar to the "Surface" angle rockers?] have occurred when the clamping was placed farther ahead or behind the bindings. The more gentle ,"Early Rise" affect seems to result with clamping at the bindings, as in the Dbl Helix fix. Perhaps that is due to the longer span allowing the material to bend on a gentler arc? More to my liking.
I too am concerned with the breaking down of the epoxy bonding material due to not very high [110 deg.] heating. One could certainly reach that with a standard hairdryer it seems. And then, why haven't numerous heated rocker jobs broken down already?
I think I may try the gradual heat method with a pair of Blu Hs Districts first, before attempting anything on my beloved Sumos.
I hope this thread continues and Mags post their pros and cons as they happen. Thanks for the info everybody...
Rockers away! Cheers"People ask us to take them skiing, and I'm like, 'REALLY'? I mean if you want to get in an avalanche or just die somehow, then, YEAH, come with US!" - Nathan Wallace
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04-09-2010, 06:19 PM #105If it's green, smoke it...if it's pink, poke it
BUY THESE------> 193 iM 103 - $50 http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=179797
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04-10-2010, 03:18 PM #106
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04-10-2010, 06:57 PM #107
Thanks esagen for these pics
I didn't see them. Were they posted in this thread or elsewhere? Doesn't look like there was a significant change to the skis, judging from my untouched pair.
I came up with the idea of putting the tips and tails [seperately] in a bathtub of very hot water for 15 mins., then setting them into clamps and blocks and heating a few mins. with a hair dryer. The hot water [125 deg?] might bring the whole section of the ski up to an overall temp more gently/completely. Anyone try this already, or have any thoughts on the idea?
Cheers"People ask us to take them skiing, and I'm like, 'REALLY'? I mean if you want to get in an avalanche or just die somehow, then, YEAH, come with US!" - Nathan Wallace
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04-11-2010, 12:02 PM #108
Well forget that idea, unless U have an over sized bath tub. Not enough room in mine to effectively get the tips under enough water.
"People ask us to take them skiing, and I'm like, 'REALLY'? I mean if you want to get in an avalanche or just die somehow, then, YEAH, come with US!" - Nathan Wallace
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04-11-2010, 03:04 PM #109
I used to do this a few years back. Tried a ton of different ideas like the ones posted here. That wrinkle on the topsheet? Your ski is broken. They are guaranteed to eventually break there. Maybe not after the first hand flex or the first week of skiing, but they will break.
My advice......... buy better skis in the first place! Sell your current sticks you aren't satisfied with, and put the cash towards something that is more of what you want.
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04-12-2010, 08:16 AM #110
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04-12-2010, 07:13 PM #111"People ask us to take them skiing, and I'm like, 'REALLY'? I mean if you want to get in an avalanche or just die somehow, then, YEAH, come with US!" - Nathan Wallace
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04-13-2010, 04:27 PM #112
Rockering Volkl Sumos
OK...Here's the results of my attempts to Rocker my skis: 175 CM Sumos. Skis had 1/2cm. camber at center. All rockering results measurements are taken from the original bottom surface contact points at tips and tails.
Let me say this right at the start; This process takes one or more of the following to complete it successfully: 1] strong desire; 2] patience/focus; 3] A lot of alcohol...
This is a slightly different method for applying the heat than the previous methods posted. I used my waxing iron [ $6 Steam Iron from 'Wally World']. The clamping methods used were similar if not identical to the other pictures posted here in this thread so I haven't bothered doing new pics. Just look at the previous examples.
I decided to use the hot iron to apply heat as I felt that I might get a more gentle heating thus eliminating the damaging effects of high heat, and perhaps maintaining more control. I didn't want to ruin these new skis, and I had an iron and didn't want to buy a heat blower. The iron seems to maintain a somewhat consistent temp at numerous settings. I used it wide open at the highest setting. I also used a hot wet towel on top of the skis, ala the old steam ironing method. I kept wetting the towel [dish cloth] with hot water as it became dry. The cloth continues to apply heat as the iron is moved along the surface of the skis. I used 2 different methods moving the iron over the skis and cloth. The wet cloth was placed over both skis simultaneously, and; 1] I moved the iron slowly 1/2" every second over the cloth on 1 ski and then the other alternating them. 2] I placed the iron on one spot for a count of 5 and then moved it up the ski the width of the iron and placed it for a count of 5. The skis never became so hot that I couldn't place my hand on the surface and hold it there even tho it was hot. I also constantly checked the bottom surface of the skis with my fingers and found that I could tell if I was getting one ski hotter than the other easily by the relative temp of the ptex surfaces of the skis.
Here's the stats on the applications:
#1] Tips blocked up 1 1/2" and clamped at 26" from tips; Tails blocked up 1 1/2" and clamped at 17" from tails; Wet cloth Iron heat applied 50 mins to tips and tail separately.
I first hot waxed both skis getting them pretty warm on the bottoms. Placed the skis in the clamps flat, without blocks at tips and tails. Applied heat to both skis together for 10 mins at tips first. Blocked tips
and applied heat for 40 mins. Then repeated same steps on tails. Allowed skis to cool for 2 hours. Removed from clamps.
Initial Results with skis pressed flat at bindings: Tips; 2mm. separation tapering to touching at 33 cms.; Tails; 3.5 mm / 22cms. [from the original tip and tail contact points].
#2 & #3] Tips blocked up 2" for #2, and 2 1/4" for #3, and clamped at 24" from tips; Tails blocked 1 3/4" for #2 & #3, and clamped at 18" from tail; Wet cloth Iron heat applied 10 mins. before blocking, and 40 mins. after blocking on tips, and 10 and 30 mins on tails. Cool down clamped for 10 hours between #2 & #3 apps. Cool down 12 hours and removal from clamps after #3.
Results after 3 applications: Tips; 5mm. separation over 36cm. Tails; 4mm over 25cm. Skis have 2.5mm camber under foot over 75 cms. of running surface.
Visually; I see no evidence of damage to the skis, and they still flex as before. I see more alteration on my Sumos than I can see on the pics offered above from OPof his 190cm Sumos. I can't begin to call this 'rocker'. It is probably stretching it to call it 'early rise' as well, but there is a definite alteration made to tips and tails. I skied them today at Snow Basin Ut. in 6-8" heavy dense wind affected fresh, and they seemed to initate better under those conditions than in the last storm of the same snow type and proportions. It was definitely a reverse/reverse ski kind of day, and more rocker was better. I felt pretty confident with them in tight situations and the tip float seamed a bit better. I noticed that they were a little less firm in holding an edge on the packed trails, but they are not a groomer ski by any means. They still ski it ok.
I will probably do another application to the tips some time soon and leave them clamped together with a tip spacer block over the summer. I am satisfied with the tails as they are, but would like another 3 mms. rise in the tips I think.
Well there you have it so far as it is. Hope this is helpful in this quest to alter skis for the better...
Cheers"People ask us to take them skiing, and I'm like, 'REALLY'? I mean if you want to get in an avalanche or just die somehow, then, YEAH, come with US!" - Nathan Wallace
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04-13-2010, 05:43 PM #113Registered User
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Looking good guys. Anyone have more reports of actually skiing on these homemade jobs? I have a pair 05 Gots I was thinking of adding some rocker to.
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04-15-2010, 01:25 PM #114Unregistered User
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did anyone say 05 goats?
I found this interesting since it sounds right, but Ive had the opposite experience. Ive had an easier time putting a mild rocker into skis with a metal layer and the only all wood, the old goats in the pictures, got a fairly abrupt rocker.
It's been working good sofar, but they suck on hardpack now. Snowlerblades.
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04-15-2010, 04:36 PM #115
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04-15-2010, 06:11 PM #116doughboyshredder Guest
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04-16-2010, 11:20 AM #117Unregistered User
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Cheers mate!
Just a note.
The reason the topsheet on those got's is all sanded down is because I thought that I would have to reinforce with a layer of fibreglass for the skis to "hold" the bend.
They seem to do just fine without it, though.
Anyone else tried/thought/heard about fibreglassreinforcing skis and/or its effects?
Maybe this question is better suited on skibuilders but Im not sure Im geeky enough for that site.Last edited by rabbit; 04-16-2010 at 01:49 PM.
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04-17-2010, 05:42 PM #118
Bump, how are everyone's skis holding up? Any serious fuck ups apart from the gots breaking?
This could be fun to try on a pair of ancient legend 8000'sSki your best and Fuck the rest
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04-17-2010, 09:08 PM #119Registered User
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I have a pair of legend 8800's for harder conditions, and rocker would only fuck up their hard snow performance. Seriously, if you are going to alter a pair of skis for added floatation, do it to a pair of skis that have some float to start with. Personally, I would only go for some early rise. The best examples are the long radius tip rises. Just bending the ski 18" back seems kind of half-assed compared to a well designed ski tip rocker
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04-18-2010, 10:20 AM #120
Well I think sure some super gradual early rise (clamp next to the bindings) wouldn't hurt their soft snow performance, anyway they're my mum's old ski.
Whatever, my heart's set on it, now just to get her permission.Ski your best and Fuck the rest
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04-28-2010, 01:24 PM #121
I'm getting ready to give this a go with a pair of Rossi B4s. I snagged them cheap off geartrade a while back and one ski arrived bent (rockered for my convenience??), but it wasn't worth shipping them back.
I've skied them a few times and never really loved them, so I figure I might as well see if that can be changed. The bent ski is currently at about a 10/30 rocker. I'm hoping to match that on the other ski and then maybe add an early rise to the tails.
No workbench here in my apartment. I'll report back with some results in a couple weeks after I get access to one.
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05-04-2010, 10:14 PM #122
I am surprised that marshalolson hasn't chimed in. When I had him mount my D-Senders earlier this year, he took a pair of Atomic Pimps and started the process for someone else right there. Basically the same premise discussed throughout this thread, but simpler.
1)-clamp skis together, flat under binders, second clamp ahead of binder and behind where you want your rocker
2)-Pull mtb handle bar down in between clamped together ski to desired spot
3)-heat
4)-leave clamped and repeat heating for about 5 days
I am sure that I am oversimplifying his technique, but he said that he had done this to multiple pairs. Might be worth the pm to touch base, seemed to take up WAY less space than some of the pics of clamping setups in here.
Sweet work though fellas, quite the ingenious group of pow hounds in here.
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05-05-2010, 06:11 AM #123Unregistered User
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Of course you can. Please post pics when youre done.
Originally Posted by SterlingSpikeDancer
I did a pair like that, clamped them, put them in a corner and a week later when i took a look at them they had slid along the wall and had incidentally received a slight lengthwise displacement, resulting in a "rocker" starting on a slightly different point on each ski.
fwiw.
/r
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06-02-2010, 05:06 PM #124
had a friend put some rocker in my Ninthward Greeners. I went with tip and tail rocker, got a little bit of top-sheet bubble on one tail other than that no cosmetic issues. The rocker profile looks good for a all mtn big ski I would say its close to perfect. Skied it one day at the bird this past Saturday heavy spring conditions. I was realy impressed the ski was more playful and more maneuverable. Tips stayed up in spring slop and tails smeared well. The still skied groomers well. Liked the ski before love the ski now.
If ski companies didn't make new skis every year I wouldn't have to get new skis every year.
www.levelninesports.com
http://skiingyeti.blogspot.com/
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06-03-2010, 08:59 AM #125
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