New Transceiver = Ortovox 3+

[Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer]

Hohes - wow, that is some very interesting/alarming news. Have you given a call to Orthovox directly? Thanks for sharing.

[rot]

*3+ woes*

Wow, that sucks.

I wonder if these have serial numbers we could check on? I'll have to look at mine when I get home. If you bought 6 at one time, it might be that they're from the same manufacturing run. Maybe QA was drunk or it was a powder day or something and a series of bunk units slipped by. If these were serialized than maybe Ortovox could tell if a limited recall is in order or what.

I've played with mine for a good three weeks now (no real slides, thank goodness) and never had any problems as severe as these. There's either a few bits of dust or hot pixels on the LCD, and there's some kind of tube visible in the lower right when the light is on. But nothing that affects actual use.

A question of my own: how do you tell what firmware version your unit currently has?

[Jonathan S.]

I wonder if these have serial numbers we could check on?

The seemingly random sequence of numbers displayed upon start-up is the serial number.

[neck beard]

I contacted Ortovox, but that was just before I saw JS's post about how to find the serial number. I'll see what they suggest.

As for the difficulty seeing the so called "transmission elements" in send/ski mode, I'll give the unit the benefit of the doubt for now and put that down to new and unfamiliar users + sunlight + with the angle at which the LCD screen was viewed.

[bean]

I read Jonathan S.' updated review on wildsnow and that, combined with Hohes' troubles with the 3+ has me pretty concerned about this unit. I was almost definitely going to buy one but unless all these issues get resolved there's no way. I'm both surprised and disappointed.

[beaterdit]

Well I bought one so I'll see how this issue shakes out.

The fit and finish seem fine on my unit but FWIW, in extremely preliminary and unscientific [indoor] tests, I have been able to confuse it momentarily with my 15 year old F1 practice beacon. What I've found though, is that when you get a REALLY extreme and erratic direction change indicator, ignore it and keep moving in the direction of the last consistent signal. The beacon then 'reaquires' the signal quickly and behaves constinently from there on in. This is unnacceptable for a rescue device IMO but I have yet to conduct thorough tests outdoors where I can really put it through it's paces.

Also FWIW the F1 used passes the 'partner check' function with no error codes displayed.

I think the missing key to enabling the 'partner check' function from the two posts above is that you have to start in recieve/search mode. I also found that I had to hold the 'mark' button down for several seconds after it turns on. Having read Jonathan's review on Wild Snow, I messed around with this before even reading the manual and was able to make it work consistently.

Hopefully Ortovox can reproduce and address this issue.

[Jonathan S.]

What I've found though, is that when you get a REALLY extreme and erratic direction change indicator, ignore it and keep moving in the direction of the last consistent signal. The beacon then 'reaquires' the signal quickly and behaves constinently from there on in.

Just wanted to note that I agree with this assessment.

[neck beard]

As for the difficulty seeing the so called "transmission elements" in send/ski mode, I'll give the unit the benefit of the doubt for now and put that down to new and unfamiliar users + sunlight + with the angle at which the LCD screen was viewed.

I retract this.

Again today I was using a 3+ and there were no flashing "transmission elements" visible at all. Light was flat, temperature was -1C. It feels very strange to hold a beacon with no visible animated sign at all that it is transmitting. Perhaps this is just my emotional bias, but when a basic feature clearly noted in the user manual is unreliable in the field, I don't like it.

So far I do not like this beacon other than it is ok for the price. I think the early hype was just that, and, in the future, I will be far more cautious with my very costly purchases. It would be a capital investment that my business can scarcely afford, but I wish I had bought a pile of Pieps DSP units. It is the unit everyone I deal with sees in my hand and that is the one they go away wanting to buy for themselves. It is the unit they should be trained with.

I don't really care for my reputation here with the more elite, but I offer this: perhaps buy - with your own hard earned cash - a bunch of beacons and use them extensively in the field before offering glowing online reviews. Not meant to sound as rude as it appears, and I do not want to disrespect people's extensive experience - I'm just venting my frustration.

I need to get rid of these things, but feel unethical selling them to online buyers without full disclosure of the issues, which would surely put them off buying. It also has me short of good beacons leading into my most busy period. Being a consumer leaves a lot to be desired these days.

Is the Pieps DSP the fastest, most affordable, most simple to use 3 beacon beacon with multi-burial flagging on the market these days?

[wannabe]

Hohes, thank you for bringing these issues to light as I was considering the 3+ as my new beacon but will not be buying it now.

It sucks that you are stuck with a bunch of beacons you do not want, can you take them back to the retailer you bought them from?

I know if it was my shop I would take them back and then send them all back to ortovox for a credit. This way you can get the beacons you want and work and those beacons are sent back to where they should the manufacturer so they can test them and make them better.

[Hacksaw]

Hohes,

If you can't see any flashing/blinking "hashmarks" on the LCD screen, then that transciever needs to go back to Ortovox. It is a required EN standard that all transceivers have somesort of display that shows the transceiver is transmitting (ie a flashing/blinking light or on the display).

I have not had any problems with viewing my 3+ in bright sun, and I have been viewing the display through Vuarnet sunglasses and Smith goggles. Do you ware polarized sunglasses/goggles?

Halsted

[Jonathan S.]

I don't really care for my reputation here with the more elite, but I offer this: perhaps buy - with your own hard earned cash - a bunch of beacons and use them extensively in the field before offering glowing online reviews.

Just for the record (in case that was directed at me), I do buy my own beacons for writing my reviews.
The only two exceptions have been that my ARVA 3 Axes review was based on my experience with a loaner unit (since that brand has very limited availability in the U.S.), and my Ortovox 3+ preproduction unit was, well, obviously identified as such, with a prominent disclaimer at the beginning at the review.
(BTW, I have been reading the other aspects of your posts, and am planning to look into those issues, but I loaned my 3+ to Ortovox on Monday last week after we together replicated the behavior I'd experienced at two other test sites, and the beacon is still in transit back to me.)

[marshalolson]

hohes, not sure about the distributor for ortovox in japan, but the german guys and US guys will take care of you. both are really really stand up folks.

also, for the record, the latest gen of the s1 is the nicest beacon i have ever used. i really really like it.

[Flash]

Marcus Peterson (from Ortovox) has posted his thoughts regarding the recent questions surround the 3+ on Lou's site: www.wildsnow.com/4127/ortovox-3-plus-review/

Santa brought me a 3+. Haven't had a chance to get it out for testing yet, but it looks solid (no obvious defects out of the box). I will report back once I get to play with it.

[neck beard]

- wannabe: 'unfortunately' I live as a foreigner in the mountains of Japan and buying local is VERY overpriced. So purchases like this are complicated by the fact that they usually come from offshore.

- Hi Halstead: I use polarized sunglasses at times (and think they give me a headache now and then). The transmission elements are sometimes clear and sometimes feint, and sometimes totally invisible. I was not aware that it was part of a standard though. Makes sense. Looking at the the LCD at at oblique angle from below certainly makes them more visible, but at times not even that helps. Sometimes I can hear a very slight 'clicking' sound in synch with the flashes, particularly the first few flashes as the unit starts to transmit. Overall, they seem to become less visible the longer the unit has been transmitting. EDIT: I left a beacon outside at -3C, in ski/send mode, and the transmission elements eventually faded to invisible, no matter the angle at which the LCD was viewed. Meantime, a unit indoors only became feint with time. when I bring the cold unit indoors, the transmission elements slowly re-appear.

- Jonathan: that comment of mine probably could have been left out altogether. It was and not aimed at you directly. Though I guess it was aimed at the wider population of excited online chatter about products that are perhaps still a little too new to get excited about. I guess I am a bit immature at times and suffer from old fashioned bitterness when expensive purchases go wrong. Forgive me if I offended you.

- Marshal: I don't have much joy in the past dealing locally with Japanese distributors of foreign products. It is like being on another planet at times (irrelevant to the topic). More relevant is that I bought these in the US so decided to contact Ortovox USA on that basis, bypassing Japan. In reality, Ortovox USA do not need my hassles from across the Pacific. But still they replied right away to my email, though we have not been able to discuss much until just now due to the holiday season, time zones etc. I have no reason to doubt that they will not provide standup service for their product and am happy with their attentiveness so far. The only reason I mentioned this online here was because of the safety nature of the product, not to make Ortovox the latest TGR corporate target.

And for the record, I have still not been able to replicate the problem of the beacon freezing with a range indication on the display as I detailed in my first post.

Also, from my first post on the previous page, I have made this update:

I assume this is by design, but if the searching beacon is stationary when it acquires a signal, it does not emit any sound until you move it. Minor stuff, but it throws me off when some beacon basics are being taught and one person in a line asks why his isn't beeping like everyone else's (in search mode). I have to tell him to move it around a bit to get it beeping (despite that fact that it displays a range and direction indicator).EDIT: seems that it just takes several seconds to start beeping when a signal is acquired, by which stage the user has started to move the beacon wondering 'why isn't this thing beeping yet'. This lead to the incorrect conclusion that the unit had to be moving to force it emit a beep.

[neck beard]

I spoke with Ortovox USA (with Marcus Peterson, CEO). Blood definitely runs through his veins. He'll back up his product. I reckon you can trust him for good service if you have any problems.

-damian

[randosteve]

I recently bought six 3+ units for myself. Of that 6:

- 3 had a minor cosmetic/qc issue: the plastic ring surrounding the LDC display was not properly attached and taking it out of the pouch caused them to almost rip off. I used super glue to repair and received a 20% discount from REI (thank you). I also got some super glue on the LCD screen, which now makes the beacons look cheap. Not a major issue, but if qc misses that obvious build mistake, what else have they missed? Well, read on:

- 1 unit had something seriously loose inside it. Just handling it caused a loud heavy clunking rattle that you could hear and feel. Perhaps it was a loose antenna (!!) perhaps the entire set of componentry was rattling around inside the plastic shell (!!!!). What ever it is, it is not right for a life saving device with sensitive electronics. REI gave me a full refund (thanks again)

to me...this sounds fishy and like the box, crate, cargo container fell off the ship or something and the beacons took some sort of big hit. i think the certified tolerances, as far as durability goes for ALL beacons, is a fall from waist level to the ground.

- Finally, 1 unit displayed very worrying behavior. Scenario: in search mode, looking for a signal, over 100m from the burial. Unfortunately a skier wearing a beacon quickly skied by, the searcher picked up their beacon, then quickly lost it as they skied out of range in a few seconds. From that moment onwards the searchers beacon read 9 ('meters') and displayed no directional indicator. For the remainder of the scenario, as the searcher passed directly over the buried beacon, the unit displayed 9, made no sounds and had no arrows. That simply is not good enough.

He had to turn it off and on again then go to search mode before it behaved like a normal beacon.

this really doesn't sound weird to me. a skier skiing by you at what...20mph for a half second? of course the beacon is going to be confused. a signal is there...then it's not. it's saying inside...wtf? be glad it picked up the skier in the first place. i bet just going back to transmit...then to search again would have brought the beacon back to life as well.

[DasBlunt]

Is the Pieps DSP the fastest, most affordable, most simple to use 3 beacon beacon with multi-burial flagging on the market these days?

yes.

1234567

[neck beard]

this really doesn't sound weird to me. a skier skiing by you at what...20mph for a half second? of course the beacon is going to be confused. a signal is there...then it's not. it's saying inside...wtf? be glad it picked up the skier in the first place. i bet just going back to transmit...then to search again would have brought the beacon back to life as well.

Hi Steve, the guy using the unit had never handled one prior to that introductory course. In the hands of an experienced user it would have been indeed almost instinctive to reset it by switching back to send, waiting a few seconds, then back to search.

[marshalolson]

I spoke with Ortovox USA (with Marcus Peterson, CEO). Blood definitely runs through his veins. He'll back up his product. I reckon you can trust him for good service if you have any problems.

-damian

glad to hear it.

marcus is definatly one of the "good guys" in the ski industry, and someone i am ALWAYS happy to see/meet/chat etc. really the whole ortovox office is pretty awesome. dale and jason are just as stand-up. they are the sort of organization you are happy to spend money with.

[Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer]

- Hi Halstead: I use polarized sunglasses at times (and think they give me a headache now and then). The transmission elements are sometimes clear and sometimes feint, and sometimes totally invisible. I was not aware that it was part of a standard though. Makes sense. Looking at the the LCD at at oblique angle from below certainly makes them more visible, but at times not even that helps. Sometimes I can hear a very slight 'clicking' sound in synch with the flashes, particularly the first few flashes as the unit starts to transmit. Overall, they seem to become less visible the longer the unit has been transmitting. EDIT: I left a beacon outside at -3C, in ski/send mode, and the transmission elements eventually faded to invisible, no matter the angle at which the LCD was viewed. Meantime, a unit indoors only became feint with time. when I bring the cold unit indoors, the transmission elements slowly re-appear.

Hohes - I wanted to touch upon the above. I was out for a tour in Tahoe this week and it was around a high of 25F. I was skinning the entire time and had the 3+ under an R1 and a Patagonia Ascensionist.

When I got back to the car and stripped down, I could barely make out the flashes. And (i) I am talking about the flashes outside of the case when looking directly at the LCD and (ii) not wearing glasses.

So I agree that Orthovox should really consider making a Firmwear update to make them brighter. Not sure this is possible with the parameters of the LCD screen, however.

I am not too concerned, however. As I put on the beacon, do a group check/partner check, and trust it is on when wearing it. There is no reason it would ever stop transmitting when worn properly and engaged, dim flashes or not.

[theetruscan]

Hohes - I wanted to touch upon the above. I was out for a tour in Tahoe this week and it was around a high of 25F. I was skinning the entire time and had the 3+ under an R1 and a Patagonia Ascensionist.

When I got back to the car and stripped down, I could barely make out the flashes. And (i) I am talking about the flashes outside of the case when looking directly at the LCD and (ii) not wearing glasses.

So I agree that Orthovox should really consider making a Firmwear update to make them brighter. Not sure this is possible with the parameters of the LCD screen, however.

I am not too concerned, however. As I put on the beacon, do a gup check/partner check, and trust it is on when wearing it. There is no reason it would ever stop transmitting when worn properly and engaged, dim flashes or not.

LCD screens freeze sometimes, and won't start working again until they warm up. I'm concerned this may be the issue you two are both experiencing. I've been wearing my 3+ for the last week straight, and have not had this issue when I've checked, but maybe it's because I'm overly warm.

I know you can get most any B&W LCD screen I have ever played with to do this by leaving it outside in temperatures below something like -10f, but haven't seen this issue at warmer temps, so hopefully this is something fixable in firmware.

I'm not especially concerned about problems with the transmitting flashes, but it seems like this might be a real concern with search. Have either Hohes or UCL switched to search when unable/nearly unable to see the transmitting flashes?

EDIT: Not an expert on LCD screens, just going from memory and a bit of tinkering. I could be totally off base.

[Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer]

thetruscan - FWIW, my unit was not really cold. It was next to my body, under 2 layers when skinning and it was not really that cold out.

I did not switch to search, but you make a VERY good point. I was still able to detect the flashes for transmit, although they were faint (and to be frank, I find them faint when initially turning on right out of the car). But, I did not turn to search to see how they numbers and arrow looked.

FWIW - when doing beacon drills, I have never thought the numbers or arrows were faint, but have felt the transmit flashes were.

Note: I am taking a LEvel 2 this weekend, so will definitely have the beacon in use numerous times and will report back on any (i) LCD issues in search mode and (ii) if I can get the search fluctuations to replicate similar to Jonathan S.

[DLD in UT]

I have had the dim transmit flashes a few times also, interestingly though the battery symbol has always been plainly visible without any noticeable dimming. So if it were due to the cold it would seem like the whole screen would be affected not just the area where the flashers are.

[Hacksaw]

This past weekend is was brutal skiing at Loveland. The temps where in the -15 to -20 f range with 15 to 20 mph winds. So, the wind chill temps where well south of -30 degrees. If you don't believe me check out the "Loveland Tomorrow?" thread http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...106638&page148

I was skiing in my Patagonia Das Boot expedition parka. I had brought along my Orthodox 3+ transceiver to show to a few folks. I forgot that I had it in the outside chest pocket of my jacket. At the end of the day I skied to my car which is parked about 70' from the ski patrol HQ. I realized that my 3+ was in my outside pocket. The transceiver was cold to the touch with a bare hand. Out of curiosity I turned on the 3+ and it went through the normal startup process. The blinking hash marks clearly displayed on the LCD screen, showing that it was transmitting. So, I turned the transceiver over to receive. Walking a couple of paces towards the ski patrol HQ, I immediately picked up multiple transceiver signals. No "hesitations," no "flutters," etc...

I was VERY pleased with the 3+'s performance. .

[Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer]

I have had the dim transmit flashes a few times also, interestingly though the battery symbol has always been plainly visible without any noticeable dimming. So if it were due to the cold it would seem like the whole screen would be affected not just the area where the flashers are.

Now that I think about it, this was also the case with mine. When in transmit after the full day (inside two layers), the battery icon was dark and visible, but the transmit flashes were dim and barely visible.