Thread: a note for the duke haters...

1. ramp angle - dukes have more ramp than both a FKS and salomon.

duke: 28mm toe, 35mm heel - delta = 7mm
FKS: 15mm toe, 17mm heel - delta = 2mm
916: 15mm toe, 18mm heel - delta = 3mm

2. stack height - by applying the pythagorean theorem to a 115mm wide ski, the effective width is the hypotonuse length.

duke hyp is 127mm
916/fks hyp is 119mm

so that ~6.5% more leverage.

i would argue that you cannot feel this on a ski this wide, and definately not in 4" or more of snow.



so yeah, if you don't dig them, that's cool...

just curious why specifically.

Not hating on the dukes (I like them), but I'm not sure that the hypotenuse length is the right way to compare. Maybe the angle from ski base to boot is more relevant? In either case though, you'd want to use (at most) half of the ski width as the triangle side, not the full 115 mm.

huh, I thought one of the advertised characteristics of the duke was the zero ramp angle?

Go Heels! Oh wait.........

Now that I can't bitch and moan about the ramp angle, what excuse can I use for skiing like shit?

Originally Posted by bfree

In either case though, you'd want to use (at most) half of the ski width as the triangle side, not the full 115 mm.

you are absolutely right.

updatng.

this does make the difference go to 6.5%.

as far as stack height, the only detraction i have ever heard argued is that it adds leverage and thereby makes the ski more hooky. which i absolutley agree with on a 90mm ski with a +2.5 stack.

the wider the ski, the less it effects things - in my experiance.

wow they have a lot more ramp....

im gonna use a 320mm bsl to convert those to an angle..

duke = 1.25* ramp angle
916 = 0.54*
fks = 0.36*

this means your chest would be about 1/2 inch more forward on a duke than another binding... could be a problem?

Originally Posted by nickwm21

this means your chest would be about 1/2 inch more forward on a duke than another binding... could be a problem?

depends on if you have functioning hips and knees

Did those numbers come from your own measurements or the manufacturers' info? The reason I ask is because Marker's website says 32mm/34mm.

my measurements.

but a 2mm delta is still what everyone else is running.

Need a higher heel elevator. Waaaauuughhhhh!!!

Since no one else has mentioned it, the delta for a Duke is completely dependent on what kind of boot you're using. Gliding AFD anyone?

I like your math skills...and let me say that I fucking love both pairs of my Dukes, so y'all haters can go someplace else

Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1

Since no one else has mentioned it, the delta for a Duke is completely dependent on what kind of boot you're using. Gliding AFD anyone?

If you mean what i think you mean, I was thinking the same thing. On a 916 the toes piece goes up and down for toe hight adjustment, but on the duke it is the afd that raises and lowers so your toe hight dictates how high the stack in the toes is. What i have heard (from wildsnow IRRC) is that on an AT boot the duke has ramp angle, but on alpine boots the duke is flat. So the relevant question here is, what boots are the bindings in question set up for?


(So far, with only 5 days on them, i'm digging the dukes)

Originally Posted by marshalolson

FKS: 15mm toe, 17mm heel - delta = 2mm

I just got 14mm and 20 on some rossi 185s.


You measured on top of the squashed brake right?

Originally Posted by marshalolson

my measurements.

but a 2mm delta is still what everyone else is running.

marshal, I'm not getting it. You're talking about the binding without any reference to boot choice. Would you elaborate on how you are getting a 28mm toe height and actually using it?

"Originally Posted by nickwm21
this means your chest would be about 1/2 inch more forward on a duke than another binding... could be a problem?"

Originally Posted by marshalolson

depends on if you have functioning hips and knees

Or Big Boobs-

How many people here are actually using their Dukes for touring?

My Dukes set up for my Protons is 34mm toe 36mm heel,probably a bunch lower in the toe with my Adrenalins with the hiking sole but the FKS and 916s only accept a ISO sole so not really a fair comparison.

For the measurements entered above, a unitary moment applied at the binding interface results in twice the induced moment at the edge of a 115mm ski using a Duke vs an FKS.

However, is the force really applied at the binding interface? It would seem to me that with a stiff boot and solid boot/binding interface, the moment starts at your knee. That longer effective moment arm would essentially negate the stack height difference contribution.

That's not 100% correct though because why then do racers use risers?


edit: ^^^ My Kryptons/Dukes measured similarly. ^^^

Originally Posted by nick > jesus

If you mean what i think you mean, I was thinking the same thing. On a 916 the toes piece goes up and down for toe hight adjustment, but on the duke it is the afd that raises and lowers so your toe hight dictates how high the stack in the toes is. What i have heard (from wildsnow IRRC) is that on an AT boot the duke has ramp angle, but on alpine boots the duke is flat. So the relevant question here is, what boots are the bindings in question set up for?


(So far, with only 5 days on them, i'm digging the dukes)

Regardless of sole thickness, the boot will sit against the bottom of the toe piece (minus a paper thick gap).

Correct me if I'm wrong but does it really matter that the AFD moves up and down rather than the toepiece moving like a solly? The top of the toe lug on the boot remains the same no matter what you do with the AFD so the AFD movement has no effect on ramp angle. The AFD movement seems ideal to me. For example swapping soles on Adrenalins from the lugged sole to the DIN standard all you need to do is move the AFD, the ramp stays the same.

I like my dukes. i just wish the didn't eat away at the toes of my Garmonts.

Originally Posted by SouthCentralShralper

How many people here are actually using their Dukes for touring?

More than you would think. I've toured 3 times on mine in the last 10 days.

Originally Posted by SpinalTap

More than you would think. I've toured 3 times on mine in the last 10 days.

That answers his question the way you don't think

I just got a pair for resort/side country use and noticed there is some play in the toe piece fore and aft when there is no boot in the binding. Any one else notice this?