Solitude Expansion...

[JTrue]

Yeah right.

What the fuck are you smoking? Do you even ski tour? Have you ever been in the Wasatch on a sunny, bluebird saturday?

He's from the Garden State.

[Tippster]

Yeti posts many words in this thread.

Many are right on.

I live far away and don't "earn my turns."

Just peeing on the rock -- as it were.

[bl2000]

He's from the Garden State.

Oh right; I'm from NJ so that must mean I haven't ever skied in the Wasatch. Wow, am I b-u-s-t-e-d!

Except maybe the year I bummed working at the Cliff Lodge. Or the year I bummed working at the EE. And we went over to Deer Valley to go XC skiing because DV wasn't even built then. So go ahead and tell me that I don't know what it's like to see the BC become a resort.

But, you MUST be right, all knowing Maggot. I'm from the Garden State. I haven't been there in a long time. Oh wait. Wait a minute. Was that Solitude I was at last Saturday and Sunday skiing all f'in day and watching folks flounder around in the quicksand all day Sunday? Or maybe the week before when I shucked the kind-of-east-like groomers on the lower mountain? Sandwiched around a hike last Friday up Mill D and definitely NOT ready for skiing (although I did see some XC and snowshoe tracks in the crunch.)

Yeah, it sucks living in the EC (since 1980 for f*cks sake), so I try to get there at least once a year during the winter. Now, I'm aiming for 3 trips a winter.

Oh, and yes, I do AT. Not well, frankly, because I just don't have the lungs for much uphill. I'm sure not as good as you hard core Gnarly Gnar Gnars.

[wra]

Oh right; I'm from NJ so that must mean I haven't ever skied in the Wasatch. Wow, am I b-u-s-t-e-d!
And we went over to Deer Valley to go XC skiing because DV wasn't even built then. So go ahead and tell me that I don't know what it's like to see the BC become a resort.

Didja hafta sneak in up the gully cuz the grounds keeper wasn't user friendly?
That was "Gnarly Gnar Gnars"!!!

[My Pet Powder Goat]

tag: butthurt2000

[Trackhead]

Oh, and yes, I do AT. Not well, frankly, because I just don't have the lungs for much uphill. I'm sure not as good as you hard core Gnarly Gnar Gnars.

So the answer is no, you don't tour enough in the Wasatch to know how quickly us Gnar Gnars track stuff out on sunny saturday's.

Next......

[JTrue]

Oh right; I'm from NJ so that must mean I haven't ever skied in the Wasatch. Wow, am I b-u-s-t-e-d!

Except maybe the year I bummed working at the Cliff Lodge. Or the year I bummed working at the EE. And we went over to Deer Valley to go XC skiing because DV wasn't even built then. So go ahead and tell me that I don't know what it's like to see the BC become a resort.

But, you MUST be right, all knowing Maggot. I'm from the Garden State. I haven't been there in a long time. Oh wait. Wait a minute. Was that Solitude I was at last Saturday and Sunday skiing all f'in day and watching folks flounder around in the quicksand all day Sunday? Or maybe the week before when I shucked the kind-of-east-like groomers on the lower mountain? Sandwiched around a hike last Friday up Mill D and definitely NOT ready for skiing (although I did see some XC and snowshoe tracks in the crunch.)

Yeah, it sucks living in the EC (since 1980 for f*cks sake), so I try to get there at least once a year during the winter. Now, I'm aiming for 3 trips a winter.

Oh, and yes, I do AT. Not well, frankly, because I just don't have the lungs for much uphill. I'm sure not as good as you hard core Gnarly Gnar Gnars.

Hey fuckstick, that was exactly the response I was hoping for.

Btw, I'm originally from Upstate NY, nice to meet you.

[Hugh Conway]

So the answer is no, you don't tour enough in the Wasatch to know how quickly us Gnar Gnars track stuff out on sunny saturday's.

Next......

We're all just other tax payers who get told what to do by the extremo gnarcore wasatch tourers.

move to the fucking wilderness fag.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

We're all just other tax payers who get told what to do by the extremo gnarcore wasatch tourers.

move to the fucking wilderness fag.

Whoa, this aggresion will not stand, man.


now, shut the fuck up and do as we say

[Hugh Conway]

now, shut the fuck up and do as we say

I'm already a whiny cunt, what next?

[Trackhead]

We're all just other tax payers who get told what to do by the extremo gnarcore wasatch tourers.

move to the fucking wilderness fag.

Well, I'd rather keep public land public, than have Solitude, a private company, bastardize it for their own profits. How would you feel about it if Dick Cheney was going to drill for oil in your local playground, but by doing so, you wouldn't be able to use it anymore?

It's funny to watch posters in this thread with their fragile egos use terms like Gnar Gnar, elitist, extremo gnarcore, etc. Please try not to get your vagina all bruised up over it.

[tone capone]

Bottom line: They're all just jealous because they are too lazy and too lacking in imagination to ever do anything but ride a lift to their mostly shitty skiing. I know it also sucks to see beautiful tracks and sick lines in the mountains beyond the resort when you're skiing chunder fuck crud with a bunch of sheeple by noon. Sucks for them, I know it must get pretty boring when those are the limitations you insist on placing on yourself.

[bl2000]

Wow, where to begin?

If I was in the USFS, I'd think the attitudes here don't make BC skiers even sound worthy of preserving their stashes. When did touring skiers become such pricks? FWIW, I agree with John Muir's view: "Not blind opposition to progress,but opposition to blind progress..." You can interpret that however you want to, but I think it's relevant here.

Goat: You tagged me butthurt, then said the aggression will not stand. WTF?

JTrue: I'm glad you got the answer you were hoping for. Whatever that means. BTW, I'm originally from southern California.

Trackhead: I've been up into the trees on the shadow (east) side of SF and the open bowl/chutes (west) on whatever day it made sense, so I don't know whether things get tracked out on Saturday or what. (I go out to Utah on vacations, remember?) Shit, the times I've been into SF, there were SOME tracks but I wouldn't say it was chopped up. Maybe we have different definitions of tracked out. I don't think even Honeycomb Canyon gets tracked out most of the time, even with the access from the summit and the return lift. I never have problems finding fresh or spoon-able tracks in there long after a storm if I traverse out far enough.

WRA: I see what you're driving for. Anyway, I don't remember a groundskeeper, just that we parked at the top of PC and skied in. It wasn't gnar, it was just fun. (If you're trying to out me, here's some trivia: I lived part of that winter in one of 3 or 4 houses just north of the main PC parking lot and almost next to the miner's hostel. One of the houses was actually a bar. Same era as you're talking about?)

Have a nice day. Oh, and save the whales.

[Trackhead]

bl2000,

It's PUBLIC land, not private land. Why wouldn't we be upset at losing the opportunity to use our PUBLIC land to what is a PRIVATE company. If Solitude gets lifts in SF, the public loses. We can't ski there anymore, Utah ski areas on public land don't allow uphill traffic, and I don't want to skin at a place that used to be free of lifts.

PUBLIC LAND becoming privatized. That's the issue.

[bl2000]

bl2000,

It's PUBLIC land, not private land. Why wouldn't we be upset at losing the opportunity to use our PUBLIC land to what is a PRIVATE company. If Solitude gets lifts in SF, the public loses. We can't ski there anymore, Utah ski areas on public land don't allow uphill traffic, and I don't want to skin at a place that used to be free of lifts.

PUBLIC LAND becoming privatized. That's the issue.

That's a fair point. And, shit, I understand people being upset. That's a lot different than the personal attacks for people having differences of opinions.

Personally (and we're all speaking from our own biases, right?), I would rather continue to have public access plus allow a lift go in. That's all. I'd want to be able to take advantage of both opportunities. An agreement could be made between the USFS and Solitude to allow that. And I really don't believe it would get tracked out, based on what my own eyes and feet tell me about Solitude. Alta gets tracked out. Snowbird gets tracked out. IMO Solitude doesn't get tracked out. Which is a large part of the reason why I like to ski there.

[Trackhead]

Personally (and we're all speaking from our own biases, right?), I would rather continue to have public access plus allow a lift go in. That's all. I'd want to be able to take advantage of both opportunities. An agreement could be made between the USFS and Solitude to allow that. And I really don't believe it would get tracked out, based on what my own eyes and feet tell me about Solitude. Alta gets tracked out. Snowbird gets tracked out. IMO Solitude doesn't get tracked out. Which is a large part of the reason why I like to ski there.

If Solitude gets a lift there, it will be on their terms, there will be no clause for ski touring. I don't know anybody I ski with that would want to tour there anymore if a lift went in. Most of the people I tour with do so to make an effort to see less people, and doing so in a drainage with a lift doesn't work.

When is enough, enough?

[ill-advised strategy]

When is enough, enough?

19 pages.

[Trackhead]

19 pages.

It'll go to 22 at least.

[StraightChuter]

Parley's Canyon/Snyderville Basin has 3 f'in HUGE ski areas covered top to bottom with runs. DV and the Canyons are expanding every other year.

Yes, because they bought the land.

LCC has 2 f'in HUGE ski areas covered top to bottom with runs (closer to SLC than S'tude, by the way), they've expanded, most recently into Mineral Basin, built a tunnel to get there, have a tram tower you can see from the valley (and, shit, the front side of the Bird was BC less than 40 years ago), blah, blah, blah.

Yes, because they bought the land.

It sounds to me like a lot of folks here are singling out BCC for the only canyon NOT allowed to have ski area expansion. Like I said earlier in this thread, put the lift in, let S'tude do avy control, watch SF get - maybe - 10-20% tracked out (like Honeycomb does now) and go do AT there also.

No, because they DON'T own the land - the public does. Solitude will be putting in lifts, cutting trails, installing structures and running heavy equipment in an area that is already threatened as a watershed (thus the no dogs policy, which looks like a joke compared to the damage a new lift causes).

As a final insult, although it will still be considered "public land" unless you are paying and going downhill, you are not allowed. No winter hikers, campers, picnickers, skiers, sightseers, etc..

[StraightChuter]

Personally (and we're all speaking from our own biases, right?), I would rather continue to have public access plus allow a lift go in. That's all.I'd want to be able to take advantage of both opportunities. An agreement could be made between the USFS and Solitude to allow that.

Utah, as a state, does not allow uphill traffic at ski areas.

And I really don't believe it would get tracked out, based on what my own eyes and feet tell me about Solitude. Alta gets tracked out. Snowbird gets tracked out. IMO Solitude doesn't get tracked out. Which is a large part of the reason why I like to ski there.

I agree - as is, Solitude doesn't get tracked out, so WTF do they need more terrain?! It is pure greed in an effort to keep up with all of the other ski areas and comes at the expense of public terrain.

[skifishbum]

Don't cry Mr. Native American Bro.
A dwellng has been erected on your land and is serving as the headquarters for SAVE OUR FRESHIES a coalition of gnar gnar slaying powder fiends

If your in the silly fork hood stop on by for a peace pipe session
Skiing pretty well back there too

[bl2000]

Utah, as a state, does not allow uphill traffic at ski areas.

I agree - as is, Solitude doesn't get tracked out, so WTF do they need more terrain?! It is pure greed in an effort to keep up with all of the other ski areas and comes at the expense of public terrain.

I'm sympathetic with your points--and I am REALLY sympathetic with the idea of preserving wilderness for future generations. I'm just also sympathetic with having some sweet terrain also be lift served and having professional avy control.

I still contend that Honeycomb Return didn't ruin HC. It's probably the lowest impact chair I've ever seen.

A deal could get made where Solitude would have to agree to provide free uphill public access in return for leasing (not necessarily owning) the federal land and putting in a lift. Utah can amend the law (if it's even so black and white, especially with respect to federal land). My point is that a compromise could be made. And Utah can amend the law generally or specifically to suit this situation. That's what legislators get elected and paid to do.

As far as greed, is the position of people who only want access by self-propulsion any less out of self-interest? Greed doesn't only relate to $$$. Moby Thesaurus words for "greed":

acedia, acquisitiveness, anger, autism, avarice, avariciousness,
avaritia, avidity, avidness, careerism, covetousness, crapulence,
crapulency, craving, cupidity, deadly sin, edacity, ego trip,
egotism, envy, frenzy of desire, fury of desire, gluttonousness,
gluttony, grasping, graspingness, greediness, gula, gulosity,
hoggishness, hyperphagia, incontinence, individualism,
inordinate desire, insatiability, insatiable desire, intemperance,
intemperateness, interest, invidia, ira, itching palm, lust,
luxuria, meanness, miserliness, narcissism, niggardliness,
omnivorousness, overeating, overgreediness, overindulgence,
parsimony, penny-pinching, penuriousness, personal aims,
personal ambition, personal desires, personalism, piggishness,
polyphagia, possessiveness, pride, privatism, rapaciousness,
rapacity, ravenousness, remoteness, self-absorption,
self-admiration, self-advancement, self-centeredness,
self-consideration, self-containment, self-devotion, self-esteem,
self-indulgence, self-interest, self-interestedness, self-jealousy,
self-occupation, self-pleasing, self-seeking, self-serving,
self-solicitude, self-sufficiency, selfishness, selfism, sloth,
sordidness, stinginess, superbia, swinish gluttony, swinishness,
voraciousness, voracity, wolfishness, wrath, yearning

WTF is crapulence? Or gula?

[StraightChuter]

I still contend that Honeycomb Return didn't ruin HC. It's probably the lowest impact chair I've ever seen.

That's because you are seeing it with resort skiers eyes. If you put a golf course, dirt bike track, shooting range or something else in there I'm sure many user groups would consider that a huge improvement over empty land. And, the HC lift and return road certainly impacted free public access to the area during the winter.

A deal could get made where Solitude would have to agree to provide free uphill public access in return for leasing (not necessarily owning) the federal land and putting in a lift. Utah can amend the law (if it's even so black and white, especially with respect to federal land). My point is that a compromise could be made. And Utah can amend the law generally or specifically to suit this situation. That's what legislators get elected and paid to do.

I know you said you lived in Utah at one point, but obviously not long enough to be realistic about the way things work here, as the above suggestions will never happen if the ski resorts don't want it. I've been escorted from ski resorts three times, each time long before the lifts even opened, or at times before the area was even open.

As far as greed, is the position of people who only want access by self-propulsion any less out of self-interest?

Yes, because it does not exclude anyone, nor does it damage the environment.

[Trackhead]

I'm just also sympathetic with having some sweet terrain also be lift served and having professional avy control.

Professional avy control isn't needed, and is often useless and unreliable. I don't know about you, but I don't need Solitude or Wasatch Powderbird "professionals" bombing shit for me to make it safe.

See the photo, see the bomb hole, no avy until later. WPG has also bombed stuff that slid on their clients later. Remember the tragic Snowbird fatality last year in professionally controlled terrain? How about the Park City fatality in controlled terrain?

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Goat: You tagged me butthurt, then said the aggression will not stand. WTF?

Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!