Friends of Shames Mtn

[garyfromterrace]

OK maggots, rip me a new ass - whatever, but I have to post. I know I was an absolute supporter of the Shames Mtn Coop (and the subsequent thread THAT WAS DELETED) however there's been some developments that I would like to share. The SMC idea was started by a gent living in Argentina and his wife, who contacted me up in Terrace to see if there was local interest. There was, so after numerous emails and postings (WHICH WERE DELETED), and meetings, and phone calls - we formed a steering committee (composed of locals and the gent from down under). One of our first orders of business was that we call the "movement" to try and buy our little hill - "The Friends of Shames" NOT a "Coop" due to the fact that we didn't know what business model would be the right one to purchase the hill and keep it viable into the future. Reluctantly, the gent agreed to change the name, and the web page etc was changed to reflect this (out with SMC, in with FoS).

We (The Friends of Shames, the locals) organised a town hall meeting that was very well attended, including the committee member from beneath the equator. We made about 6 grand at the after-town-hall-party, to help us in our efforts (laywers and accountants and trips to vancouver etc aren't free). FoS organized a meeting in Vancouver with 5 members of FoS and 3 lawyers (OK one was retired), all with plenty of experience with non profits, and coops and the like. We met all day. We came out of the meeting with some great ideas, however some on the committee (the FoS steering committee was after all comprised of 9 people, not just the 5 who attended) needed us to bring the information back to our little village and discuss it amongst ourselves some more. Because $3M bucks is a lot of money, and none of us have that much spare change kicking around. Now I am all for getting down to business, and I have my opinion on which direction I'd like to see the ski hill go, however in a committee the majority need to make up their mind and some hadn't.

Last week, a few days after returning from the Vancouver trip I was informed that the gentleman from patagonia no longer wanted to be on the Friends of Shames steering committee. Nope, he didn't want to be a Friend of Shames any more. So he resigned, left us, vamoosed. And we wish him well.

The locally driven Friends of Shames are still investigating which model THEY feel is best for the long term sustainability of our little ski hill. To that end I would like to present our Press Release. Thanks for listening, eh.

Friends of Shames
"For the future of Shames Mountain"

Press Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

November 20, 2009

FRIENDS OF SHAMES PURSUES SKI AREA OPTIONS

The Friends of Shames (FoS) steering committee continues to investigate multiple options for a sustainable future for Shames Mountain.

Friends of Shames is a steering committee made of up local people in the Terrace-Kitimat-Prince Rupert region committed to preserving this ski operation as an integral part of the community, local economy and key piece to the quality of life so many people in the region enjoy.

“The mandate of Friends of Shames is to pursue the best and most sustainable business model for future operations of Shames Mountain and work continues to pursue those options,” says Friends of Shames spokesperson Mary Bartlett.

“Those options are not limited to the co-op model, but could include other ways of creating a sustainable future for the mountain such as a non-profit society or a for-profit business model.” The committee anticipates having a decision on the business structure by the end of 2009.

The Friends of Shames are a separate entity from the Shames Mountain Co-op (SMC). Look for the upcoming FoS website to be launched in the coming weeks.

The committee looks forward to moving ahead with the Friends of Shames mandate and working with people who have passionately supported Shames for many years. Friends of Shames is committed to finding the best way to keep this incredible resource operating for years to come.

Contribute ideas or contact FoS at: info@friendsofshames.com

Media Contact:

[LeeLau]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/.../70653262.html

article in Terrace paper

[TJ Burpe]

So, I read the article. But, still a little fuzzy. What are the differences here? How many locals does the Co-op effort have on board versus the Friends of Shames model?

[garyfromterrace]

You're right to be fuzzy, so are many of the locals, especially when one of the former members of the Friends of Shames now suggests he was never a member (strange how he submitted his resume for the info pamphlet presented at the town hall meeting, sat with us up at the front, accepted his introduction as a FoS steering committee member, sat in on at least 4 conference calls during steering committee meetings, and one in person).

The difference is that there is a local steering committee Friends of Shames, and there is the Shames Mtn Coop, they are separate entities.

As far as numbers, that remains to be seen. As soon as the locals figure out who's who, it will be interesting. Our press release identifying the separation just went out today, but I will be talking to lots of my pals at the ski hill tomorrow, so words going to get out fast. I just hope no one deletes my posts on this thread. OH WAIT I started it!

[LeeLau]

So, I read the article. But, still a little fuzzy. What are the differences here? How many locals does the Co-op effort have on board versus the Friends of Shames model?

Perhaps Enlosandes can answer that

Another article

http://www.terracedaily.ca/show5072a...ETWEEN_FRIENDS

[garyfromterrace]

....(strange how he submitted his resume for the info pamphlet presented at the town hall meeting, sat with us up at the front, accepted his introduction as a FoS steering committee member, sat in on at least 4 conference calls during steering committee meetings, and one in person)......

I will also add that the former FoS steering committee member also attended the meeting in Vancouver organized by the FoS, thank you.

[TJ Burpe]

So, its still cloudy. What differs between the Co-op format and the FOS format? Does the FOS not want the global community investment? It still
seems difficult to figure out how the two are different.


leelau thought you were up in that whistler powder

[LeeLau]

So, its still cloudy. What differs between the Co-op format and the FOS format? Does the FOS not want the global community investment? It still
seems difficult to figure out how the two are different.


leelau thought you were up in that whistler powder

I would suspect that FoS would want any global involvement they can get

yeah - Im sitting on a couch trying to rest up for another pow day tomorrow

[Northern Lights]

The "second coming" of Shames is turning into almost as big a clusterfuck as the original creation.

In a more encouraging note, Shames has had two consecutive 40cm+ days.

[enlosandes]

I will make this super quick as I don't want to get in any pissing matches and prefer to stay focused on the positive.

The FOS committee was formed as a result of the SMC movement. (My wife and I have always represented SMC and have been thinking about a co-op style ownership for many years.) I was never a member of a committee that was formed as a result of the SMC movement. I did agree to briefly change the header on the website to FOS. I quickly realized that was a mistake and changed back when I realized that the two entities aren't even remotely on the same page.

The much bigger issue here is that FOS does not agree with the mission statement, core values and code of ethics as depicted on the SMC website.

SMC needs and wants and is currently working with members of the local community. However, it is imparitive that they share the same vision as SMC. Just like choosing a successful business team, all players need to be on the same page.

To be clear, if SMC does not have the local support, then this will never fly and we will ride off into the sunset.

For the record, as a result of my numerous interactions with many in the local community the last month, the same common theme has come up. FOS is a very loud but small minority of the community.

I have two questions that have not been answered yet.

If the ski area has been for sale for many years, and a global ski co-op movement begins, why would you form a committee to figure out what the best option is for Shames? Seems like there was plenty of time to evaluate the options?

If you live in a town with a sluggish economy, why wouldn't you want foreigners to buy a share and come visit?

We encourage all those, both locally and globally, who agree with the mission statement, core values and code of ethics to get involved if they like. SMC is all about collaboration, so long as the people are in agreement about the beliefs.

Here is a link to the Terrace Daily, which discusses the FOS and SMC situation.

PS If I was a FOS member, why did I pay for my trip to Vancouver out of my own pocket?

[grapedrink]

i'm sure he's a nice guy and all but any group led by enoslandes will fail so be happy he left your organization. on the other hand having two groups competing to buy a ski resort that has never turned a profit in 20 years is pretty funny. i imagine both groups have the same goals except with shames mtn co-op enoslandes is in charge so he would make sure he and his wife both have administrative positions (and salaries) in the new organization whereas with FoS they would not because they're foreigners and obviously unqualified..

[enlosandes]

i'm sure he's a nice guy and all but any group led by enoslandes will fail so be happy he left your organization. on the other hand having two groups competing to buy a ski resort that has never turned a profit in 20 years is pretty funny. i imagine both groups have the same goals except with shames mtn co-op enoslandes is in charge so he would make sure he and his wife both have administrative positions (and salaries) in the new organization whereas with FoS they would not because they're foreigners and obviously unqualified..

I know you don't like me, and I accept that.

For the record, the reason for being founding directors is to write the by-laws for the Co-op to follow for years to come. We are looking for two local founding directors to work with in doing this.

My wife and I have been doing this all for free for the last 3 months, including my two trips to Canada out of pocket. There is no money whatsoever in this for us, non. In fact, we will be paying for the co-op incorporation out of pocket and only being reimbursed in a share, if it reaches fruition. There will be no administrative positions and salaries, this is a labor of love about something we strongly believe in, period!

[grapedrink]

I know you don't like me, and I accept that.

For the record, the reason for being founding directors is to write the by-laws for the Co-op to follow for years to come. We are looking for two local founding directors to work with in doing this.

My wife and I have been doing this all for free for the last 3 months, including my two trips to Canada out of pocket. There is no money whatsoever in this for us, non. In fact, we will be paying for the co-op incorporation out of pocket and only being reimbursed in a share, if it reaches fruition. There will be no administrative positions and salaries, this is a labor of love about something we strongly believe in, period!

i don't dislike you at all, like i said i'm sure you're a very nice guy, i just don't think you're the right person to lead this thing. you did a great job giving the locals a good kick in the ass.. but now the community is split into competing groups? thats just idiotic, that's a step backwards not forward. neither of you has a chance until that is resolved. gary seems to be doing a fine job, he's organized a successful townhall meeting, he's met with the current owners, raised 6K, is a local business owner.. if you truly care about shames as you stated then take a step or two back, consolidate the groups and let the locals take over. it's their hill afterall.. juvenile infighting is not the way to go.

[garyfromterrace]

I was never a member of a committee that was formed as a result of the SMC movement. I did agree to briefly change the header on the website to FOS. I quickly realized that was a mistake and changed back when I realized that the two entities aren't even remotely on the same page.

Oh, so the fact that your name was written in the Friends of Shames weekly meeting minutes as a participant every week (a copy of previous meetings sent every member prior to said weekly meetings) didn't perhaps "red flag" the fact that we thought you were a member?

So the fact that you submitted your cv to the FoS committee for inclusion into the town hall meeting pamphlet submitted to every person entering the meeting, the fact that you were introduced to the audience as a FoS member, the fact that you sat up at the front in a row with the other committee members - these facts didn't somehow draw your attention to the fact that you were a member. Or at least perceived as one by the local community.

Further, you suggest that you "briefly" changed the header on your website & "quickly" realized it was a mistake.... uh how do you define quick and brief. In geological terms yes, it was fast. But I would suggest it was at least a month, but who's counting.

SMC needs and wants and is currently working with members of the local community. However, it is imparitive that they share the same vision as SMC. Just like choosing a successful business team, all players need to be on the same page.

Hey, just like North Korea. Sweet, every one on the same page. Dissention and discussion when you're talking about coming up with $3M should be kept to a minumum. Perhaps due diligence in looking at other models, isn't team playing. Yeah, ok.

To be clear, if SMC does not have the local support, then this will never fly and we will ride off into the sunset.

You called that one

For the record, as a result of my numerous interactions with many in the local community the last month, the same common theme has come up. FOS is a very loud but small minority of the community.

Well I, sir, would respectfully disagree with your assessment. And I fucking live here. I would further suggest sir, that once it is well known here that you have resigned from the FoS steering committee, and that there is a clear distinction between FoS and SMC that you may wish to re-assess your conclusion. By the way your were up here for a very "brief" amount of time (4 days as I recall).

I have two questions that have not been answered yet.

If the ski area has been for sale for many years, and a global ski co-op movement begins, why would you form a committee to figure out what the best option is for Shames? Seems like there was plenty of time to evaluate the options?

Why would you join a committee friend? Oh wait, you didn't join, you pretended. I'll tell you why you form a steering committee - to research various models and all funding sources with due diligence. So that you don't spend 500 fucking hours on a project unpaid, to see it fail because you forgot something. So you get other ideas from people that have completely different skill sets from yours (like an MBA or 30 years of construction inspection experience, or run a marketing department for an airline, or head a local economic development association), and you have discussions and differences of opinion. And if you're really lucky, at the end of it you have a plan that is well researched that perhaps succeeds.

If you live in a town with a sluggish economy, why wouldn't you want foreigners to buy a share and come visit?

Oh we want people to come all right, believe me we want them. Do we want them to buy a share - in what? Do we have a business plan? Do you? I haven't seen it. Once we have done OUR due diligence will have a plan.

We encourage all those, both locally and globally, who agree with the mission statement, core values and code of ethics to get involved if they like. SMC is all about collaboration, so long as the people are in agreement about the beliefs.

Yes, no disagreement is allowed. We will all happily go along.

Here is a link to the Terrace Daily, which discusses the FOS and SMC situation.

Below is a posting on the SMC website from the owner of this newspaper. Now I will NOT get into credibility of news sources here, please enjoy:

"Yeah, that's a great idea. Good thinking. Bring the Northwest culture to the hill for the world community to savour. It'd be great to sit in a large log structure with a large fire after a day on the slopes. This feels like a winner, drumming and dancing after a day of skiing and boarding. I wish I was twenty again."

PS If I was a FOS member, why did I pay for my trip to Vancouver out of my own pocket?

You know it's funny. We actually did have a discussion about that AFTER you resigned from the committee. I suggested that we should pay half of your LAX - YVR ticket. Other members disagreed. So we voted on it, because that's what you do in a committee. The vote was 3 for, 2 against, and 3 abstained. So we were going to pay, however that became a bit of a mute point after you left, so there you go.

Now having spent WAY TO MUCH FUCKING TIME ON THIS, and having all of my previous posts regarding this on the last thread DELETED. I am going to go skiing. Because that is what is important.

"Clusterfuck" as someone mentioned earlier? Yup, it's a fucking pity.

[enlosandes]

I am going to go skiing. Because that is what is important.

Amen my powder brother to the north, that's what it is all about. Make some turns and I know we will get this ironed ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut!

[AKA]

So where do I buy my shares?? I wanna ski powder I own!!! Global ski community represent!

[concretejungle]

I don't think anyone here saw this coming.

Good luck to the Terrace locals, they deserve a ski hill.

[L7]

i'm sure he's a nice guy and all but any group led by enoslandes will fail so be happy he left your organization. on the other hand having two groups competing to buy a ski resort that has never turned a profit in 20 years is pretty funny.

I have to agree with this... no loss whatsoever. There is being positive and then there is being realistic. Even when he says 'he wants to focus on the positive' the negative shit flinging comes out.

My minor knowledge of coop rules in BC is that they are very complex and convoluted. More so than in other provinces and likely more so then in most other countries. The difficulty of getting a consensus from the large decision group required just makes success that much less likely. It also opens up high jacking by whatever snake oil salesman pops up.

Look at Mountain Equipment coop which personally I think has totally lost the plot and the original goals. This is the result of various semi retired corporate types gaining control and steering it toward massive growth. Now it's just another glitzy retailer lacking knowledgeable or adequate sales staff and making poor purchasing decisions while focusing on margins instead of consumers or service.

What you need is a small, dedicated group that will work hard for success AND a motivated bank. What are the current owner's options? Is bankruptcy a viable one? Buying it out of bankruptcy seems the most cost effective and gives the bank holding any debt incentive to make it work. Maybe you loose a season. Even that possibility should be enough to get the current owners to drop their pants on price if they really want out.

In Banff Mt Norquay formed a new partnership with a local large company to build new terrain with snowmaking, 2 new quads (one detachable) and a massive new lodge, new daycare, new patrol hut and new office/rental/retail building.

After a few years the infighting became too much and they walked away from the company formed for the partnership. The receiver put it to tender and a new group picked it up for $900,000! Had to be a cash deal though) That included all the new infrastructure plus a fair bit of older equipment/lifts as well. The group included Thomas Grandi's family. The hill never missed a season and continues to be a viable albeit mostly local resource by carving out a very solid niche in a crowded market. It has since resold to a group that includes Ken Read and some very dedicated and successful local Norquay skiers. Not sure of the selling price.

Not sure how much infrastructure is included at Shames but it is a lot easier to make any place successful while servicing 900k of debt vs 3.5mil or whatever it is. I just don't see the current owners being in much of a bargaining position and don't think their asking price will reflect the eventual (sustainable) selling price.

There is also the story of Fortress mountain that sold to a 'everything is groovy and positive' meat mind who just couldn't grasp reality. That hill never really reopened and remains a mothballed wasted resource high in the rockies with some great use able infrastructure still there.

[Northern Lights]

Consider this an open letter to ELA:

When you spoke at the meeting in Terrace and examine your (now deleted) posts, you kept going on about "Grassroots" this, and "accountability" that (to the point where they were nothing but annoying buzzwords). Let me ask you then. How the fuck is this a grassroots organization when you live 3500 kilometres away and have exactly 0 people that have ever skied Shames on your board of directors? It smells more like everybody's original thought; that some American was coming in to try to buy our ski hill. How exactly are you "accountable"? You're a board of directors of 2, going 100% against local sentiment, deleting old threads with historical value, confusing those who could potentially support a locally-owned ski hill and essentially doing whatever you damn well please.

Here's a hint: any goodwill you once created in Terrace by being the "interview boy" is gone. Nobody wants your involvement anymore, and you certainly aren't going to win a battle against a concerted group of people that have actually skied the hill. All you can do is hurt things.

Now is your chance to be a man and walk away despite what you feel is owed to you.

This is an open letter to FoS:

Although you don't want to be ELA and spew inanities about Shames multiple times a day about the co-op, you guys are in a pretty desperate need of some method of communications besides press releases to Merv. Because I know some people who feel you've largely self-appointed yourselves as the steering committee, I'd recommend trying to be as open as possible from this point on. This means: publishing your meetings' minutes, giving people a rough schedule of events, and most importantly publishing what your options are for the structure (co-op/non co-op, not-for-profit/for-profit, corporate) the advantages/disadvantages, and allowing for public input as well having your won vote.

But on the whole were all supportive and receptive.

[legallyillegal]

I must say, I like the FoS idea.

[AKA]

I wanna buy shares here people, where do I mail the check?

[garyfromterrace]

This is an open letter to FoS:

Although you don't want to be ELA and spew inanities about Shames multiple times a day about the co-op, you guys are in a pretty desperate need of some method of communications besides press releases to Merv. Because I know some people who feel you've largely self-appointed yourselves as the steering committee, I'd recommend trying to be as open as possible from this point on. This means: publishing your meetings' minutes, giving people a rough schedule of events, and most importantly publishing what your options are for the structure (co-op/non co-op, not-for-profit/for-profit, corporate) the advantages/disadvantages, and allowing for public input as well having your won vote.

But on the whole were all supportive and receptive.

Northern Lights your point is well taken. I knew the self appointed nature of the committee would be an issue, and I'll just say that trying to get consensus with a group of 9 people is really difficult. Getting consensus out of a group of 300 would be impossible (I'm not being a smart ass here). I'll tell you how we "picked" ourselves: Jamie talked to me (and I think Rod) because Scotsman (the dude who house sat for me a couple of years back) suggested we were avid locals. Rod's "Mr. Backcountry" up at Shames, I talked to Daryll because I knew he had also talked the owners a while back (months before FoS) about purchasing Shames via some sort of non-profit and he used to work for the hill, Daryll suggested Sam because he was an economic development officer for TEDA (and used to work for the hill), Daryll also suggested Linda (a skier, who's a former commercial banker and quite smart), Sam suggested Luke because he's the head of the Kermode Tourism (and a really keen skier), we all liked Mary because she was a really keen front and backcountry skier (who has also worked for the hill) from Rupert, and a media relations person, she told us about Steve (another super keen skier) who used to sit in on MEC board meetings all the time, knew some of the key players there, and is from Rupert. David is the new guy - keen (expressed a willingness to join the committee at the Town Hall), works in IT and is from Kitimat. Note that these are very simplistic explanations, and my lack of time prevents me from going further (more on that below).

Now I get the sentiment about the "self appointedness" of our committee, I will just say that we all have full time jobs (mine was up to 60 hours a week in Sept and Oct) in addition to time spent on this project. So I would suggest that if anyone out there figures they can do the job better, have at er.

We are trying to be an information conduit and we have put all the responses to our town hall questionaire onto a spread sheet, Sadly we never seem to have time to review these responses because we spend so much of our meeting time dealing with immediate "issues" that need attention.

I think you have a point about the minutes, we did publish the first ones but it meant having to do 2 sets of minutes because I didn't want to use names (so that the discussions could be very candid) and I just didn't have the time to keep doing this so we discussed it as a group and decided against it. We'll put it back on the table for discussion. We will also discuss at our next meeting other things you have put forward but please realize that all of this takes time. We have been sidetracked so often it's really frustrating.

Trying hard to get our shit together is,
FoS (well I suppose I'll can only just speak for me here)

PS - skiing today kicked ass!

[ed nauseum]

yeah, gary, we skied Python and it was wicked and sick

[garyfromterrace]

yeah, gary, we skied Python and it was wicked and sick

you're dissing me you bastard

[JoeStrummer]

Alright, I'm tired of hearing about this place and am coming up for some turns. Can one of you locals pick me up at the airport in Spokane?