Thread: Berthoud Photo/Conditions Thread (2009-2010)

Originally Posted by 4frntmorrison

What exactly would be unsafe with this line? I'm obviously a noobie with route selection and I've taken an avi 1 class but not much of it had to do with choosing a safe path. My guess would be that it's pretty wide open with not much of a safe spot if any. Is that a fair analysis of the line?

The questionable part of that face is that it's a covex rollover that recieves a fair bit of windloading and sits at a similar aspect to the face that slid heavily yesterday (NE). Additionally, you can see evidence of a slide from a couple days previous to when we skied it.

It doesn't carry nearly the threat that the steeper faces to its skier's right do because of it's mellower pitch, but it does have a history of taking people out.

The idea of our safe line was to ski the ridge above the slide debris making a couple of hard ski cuts and then drop in lower on the face to minimize our time out in the open.

Originally Posted by bngofast

Okay here's a photos a of the slide and a description of what happened. I didn't see the first slide go as we we're hitching up from current creek but I saw the rest happen as we were hitting treeline on the East Side:



What I saw:
JeffreyJim, my wife, friends and I arrived back at the top lot to see the 1larrge fracture (red outline) that had propogated accross most of the cliff band. From where we were it looked natural.

We got to the top of HHA area and got a better look and could see some tracks along the top of the rollover just above the fracture (blue circle).

Just as we had gotten to the top of HHA the second slide went right over Nitro cliff (Blue outline).

Not 30 seconds later we see some random Joe with apparently no company ski right past the fracture line above nitro and move into the trees. (tracks marked by brown circle)

5 or so minutes later we see him ski out into the open to skiers left of Nitro causing ANOTHER slab right above him (yellow outline).

He then slows to a stop not more than half way down the hill to look back at his slide (green star).

We then skied the far left trees of HHA/Hanging Meadow area rolled back to the car and headed down the hill. 20 minutes later, buddy that we were skiing with says he just got an SAR call and is headed back up the hill.

Supposedly, the mystery Dumbass headed off into Current Creek and failed to call SAR to tell them that his ass was alright. SAR, Grand County EMT, Sheriff and avy dogs found no sign of anyone in the slide debris.

I should reiterate what I said yesterday that East facing aspects of any kind in this area should be treated with caution. SE -NE aspects are the large majority of what's going around here.


*Minor sidenote: I'm really hoping it wasn't anyone from this forum setting the skin track up the blind area of the Big Roll on the skiers left side of the Gaffney's/Nitro band. Not only was it a completely blind area from above to be skinning, but it was obviously a questionable aspect today anyway and there had already been a small natural release on that face 2 days ago. Comments like "It's not gonna slide again," made me think that things in that party just weren't really thought out.

*Other sidenote: If you were smart and played your awareness cards right, there was some good skiing to be had up there today.

Interesting....

I was on the probe line yesterday.

up there today. still kind of thin, but we are getting close. Checked out the debris field from the Nitro slide :yikes:

Wow, just wow. Not surprising! I'm glad no one was hurt or worse, dead. But I commented to Lurch on Saturday that I wouldn't be surprised if someone dies at Berthoud Pass today. I just hope the junkshow wises up (doubtful though).

wow. can anyone else play count the slide paths on the photo?...I'm a little amazed there are so many tracks down parts of it, but at the same time not at all.

and on a totally different note, theres are from a week and a half ago up there that I've been meaning to post

hans, what area were those taken in?

floral, a little under two weeks ago actually, I'm sure by now it's crust city

i thought so looking at the road below. we need snow!!!!

Originally Posted by 4frntmorrison

What exactly would be unsafe with this line? I'm obviously a noobie with route selection and I've taken an avi 1 class but not much of it had to do with choosing a safe path. My guess would be that it's pretty wide open with not much of a safe spot if any. Is that a fair analysis of the line?

avy courses have alot to do with choosing safe paths. I am a noob to but just took an avy course last week and I highly suggest it.

heading up tomorrow by myself. silver VW silver roof pod with a change for a nickel sticker, yell at me if you want to do some laps together as I am up for checking out anything safe tomorrow

Originally Posted by 4frntmorrison

What exactly would be unsafe with this line? I'm obviously a noobie with route selection and I've taken an avi 1 class but not much of it had to do with choosing a safe path. My guess would be that it's pretty wide open with not much of a safe spot if any. Is that a fair analysis of the line?

If your Avy 1 class didn't discuss safe route/terrain selection, I would suggest you go ask for your money back.

Originally Posted by bngofast

The questionable part of that face is that it's a covex rollover that recieves a fair bit of windloading and sits at a similar aspect to the face that slid heavily yesterday (NE). Additionally, you can see evidence of a slide from a couple days previous to when we skied it.

It doesn't carry nearly the threat that the steeper faces to its skier's right do because of it's mellower pitch, but it does have a history of taking people out.

The idea of our safe line was to ski the ridge above the slide debris making a couple of hard ski cuts and then drop in lower on the face to minimize our time out in the open.

Correct, convex takes it to about 40 deg (as of last weekend). Handful of triggers. And yep, that exact slope took out two folks the day BP opened as an area way back when...

Originally Posted by 4frntmorrison

What exactly would be unsafe with this line? I'm obviously a noobie with route selection and I've taken an avi 1 class but not much of it had to do with choosing a safe path. My guess would be that it's pretty wide open with not much of a safe spot if any. Is that a fair analysis of the line?

Because it is located just to lookers right of the yellow "third" release in the photo on the previous page. The aspect made it sketchy.

FKNA- that guy who caused the slide was lucky.

Just a PSA from Saturday.

Look at bngofast picture. Note the skin track just below the roll...

I'm not going to say it is the worst idea in the world to set a skin track there but if you do, understand skiers from the above slope CANNOT SEE YOU.

That is all.


(why not just use the established route? Seems like taking on risk you don't need to...or at least increases the probability of a fight between skiers above and you skinning below)

Recent avalanche activity is the number one indicator of local snow instability. There was a slide immediately above the skin track, and the slope on either side of the slide path is very similar to the slide area, thereby making it likely surrounding snow is also very unstable.

^^^bingo!..usually if you see slides on faces that have similar aspects to what you want to ski...don't ski there!

was up there today, it was freaking beautiful. Did a few laps and dug a pit on the top side of Big Roll. It was at a low angle (20-25ish I guessed) but faced the same aspect (NE) as the slide on saturday. I did a compression test and an extended compression test and neither failed at 30 whacks. It was 67cm to the ground and about 20cm of 4 finger snow on top of 1finger layer on top of that facet layer we all are reading about. pretty wind-blown.

Other places had mild cracking and collapsing. no whoomping heard.

Also skied the lift gully for a warm up, which was worthless. And Floral Park which was actually pretty well covered. HHA looked thin and all the holiday drivers didnt want to give a bum like me a ride with all their kids in the cars.

Might return tomorrow, if anyone is interested, let me know.

Paging Franz, NPG, Fast Froggy, or others. Anyone up for Dawn Patrol tomorrow? Need to be headed back to D-town by 10:00.

I could be up for Thursday or Saturday AM... if anyone cares about a relative BC newb tagging along.

Originally Posted by Prophet10

Paging Franz, NPG, Fast Froggy, or others. Anyone up for Dawn Patrol tomorrow? Need to be headed back to D-town by 10:00.

No dice for me, but have something in mind for Thursday if you're free.

Originally Posted by NPG

No dice for me, but have something in mind for Thursday if you're free.

Family in the way. Can't do Thursday. I wouldn't mind the details after you are done though. Or if it can wait until the weekend...

^^JJ, possibly in, I'd need to be back in Golden by 10 though...call me later today and we can see if we can work it out.

Originally Posted by Franz

^^JJ, possibly in, I'd need to be back in Golden by 10 though...call me later today and we can see if we can work it out.

Back by 10:00 is cool with me. I will call.

Originally Posted by Prophet10

Family in the way. Can't do Thursday. I wouldn't mind the details after you are done though. Or if it can wait until the weekend...

Doing a SW tour ... back to Monarch Fri, Silverton Sat, Durango Sun.