Thread: Avalung standalone or avalung in a pack?

This year being the first year I venture into the BC, an Avalung seems like a no-brainer for required gear. BD's packs seem really well thought out, but a lot of people complain about the shoulder area. Just wondering if anyone had a preference of a standalone avalung over one of BD's packs with one? Seems like the standalone would be more versatile if you use different packs, but I can see it might get annoying having that and your beacon strapped to you separately on top of wearing a pack. The other obvious benefit of a standalone is being able to use a different pack, but BD's stuff is usually spot on. Thoughts?

My Avalung II fits fine under my pack, no issues, and I like the idea of having the Avalung stay with me if an avy rips off my pack. IMO, the Avalung packs carry like shit, but my standards are high because I carry custom McHale packs.

i used dakine packs for years and bought a BD anarchist with avalung and absolutely love it. I can't think of any other pack I would use now.I have traveled to South America with it and used it as my carry on / daily pack as well as BC pack and it had performed flawlessly. I have had none of the shoulder issues that people complain about but I am 5'11 and 150 lbs so not a big guy. I owned one of the original avalung vests and hardly ever used it because of the inconvenience of having tp put it on and take it off and the trouble with skinning and needed to shed layers.

So IMO go with the BD avalung pack they are well made last and it keeps the avalung with you pretty much all the time. If I had some extra cash I'd buy a smaller one (agent) for daily use and small slack country trips

I have a standalone avalung and bca tracker beacon. I've never been uncomfortable wearing both with a pack on while, skinning, hiking, or skiing. I went with a standalone for two reasons. One is I have more than one pack. One for sidecountry, and a bigger one for touring. Two, in the case of avalanche, it is possible for the pack to be ripped off. If that happens, say bye bye to your avalung. If you have a standalone avalung, it fits very tightly and securely, and will stay on, if fitted properly. Go with the standalone, it's more versatile.

I'm curious does anyone know of an avvy incident where the victims pack was tore off and they survived?
The Bd avvy pack works for me. I hated the fact every layer change required removing the stand alone. The pack is nice in that the mouthpiece zips up when you don't feel you need it and is there when you feel you do.

Originally Posted by skifishbum

I'm curious does anyone know of an avvy incident where the victims pack was tore off and they survived?
The Bd avvy pack works for me. I hated the fact every layer change required removing the stand alone. The pack is nice in that the mouthpiece zips up when you don't feel you need it and is there when you feel you do.

Good point on the removal for every layer. That is kind of pain in the ass.

And with regard to the pack being torn off, I forgot which flick it is, I was watching it the other day. Maybe Such Is Life in the bonus featurs, I don't know, but there is a guy in an avy, and I think he ends up just his thermal.

This blog shows how to take an Avalung II and attach it to any non avalung pack, getting around the problem of removing the avalung to change layers and wanting to have more than one Avalung Pack:

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...k-273244/view/

I was asking the same question recently. I ended up getting the BD pack but I'm still second guessing myself.

My reasoning was that I would probably never bring the separate avalung with me when I needed it and it would be just one more thing to lose.

Plus, some of the areas that I ride require you to be as low key as possible, and not broadcast where you are going, kind of an unwritten rule. You also have to move fast, therefore, no time for stopping to put on the avalung. Wearing a separate avalung would not be so sneaky.

I got the BD Outlaw 32, I like the pack but the shoulder feels a little weird with the avalung tube running through it. I was checking out the Osprey "Kode" packs today and they are pretty f-ing sweet. The suspension and options on those packs are pretty awesome.

Originally Posted by huckster989

i used dakine packs for years and bought a BD anarchist with avalung and absolutely love it. I can't think of any other pack I would use now.I have traveled to South America with it and used it as my carry on / daily pack as well as BC pack and it had performed flawlessly. I have had none of the shoulder issues that people complain about but I am 5'11 and 150 lbs so not a big guy. I owned one of the original avalung vests and hardly ever used it because of the inconvenience of having tp put it on and take it off and the trouble with skinning and needed to shed layers.

So IMO go with the BD avalung pack they are well made last and it keeps the avalung with you pretty much all the time. If I had some extra cash I'd buy a smaller one (agent) for daily use and small slack country trips

Thsi is crazy, i could have posted the exact same thing, height weight, took mine on its first trip to SA, and even wnet thoughone of the other ones before getting the pack version...

The standalone model is really a pain as far as convenience and layers go, if its convenient you'll use it, otherwise it will get ignored and no longer helps. If you need a new pack anyway its a good deal. My only complaint is that the intake box can be painful on your shpulder if the pack is cinched tight to your body, try it on loaded with somthign before buying it.

I have an unused Avalung I vest, that I would sell you cheap. pm me if you want it. I was going to retrofit a pack on my own, but thought better of the idea.

I never used a stand alone, but like my Covert pack. It carries well and is comfortable. I think the shoulder complaint is an individual thing, just like fit and comfort is with any pack. I hear people say all the time they often leave there stand alone in the car because they probably won't need it, but no one leaves their pack or beacon.

It certainly is individual preference, but I prefer to have it built into my pack. I nearly always ski with a pack inbounds on big pow days, so I have an avalung with me whether I think I might need it or not. I doubt many people would put on a stand alone for resort days...who wants to look like a JONG, but hey! if it's built into your pack it adds gnar points.

(I was almost involved in an in-bounds avi and Mammoth, and have used my avalung when upside down on a deep pow day, so I have no problem skiing with one in-bounds.)

My buddy has the standalone which his GF gave him cuz he has taken at least one ride

she is probably more commited to buddy wearing the avalung than he is ... with all the taking off /putting on gear I would say buddy is less likey to have the standalone on when he needs it

I have a stand alone, mainly because I have about 5 different packs one of which is an ABS pack that I use most of the time. I agree that the drawback is when you want to shed layers. It is a pain to have to take it all off & then put it back on. If you are just going to have one pack, I would consider just getting the BD that fits your need.

Harpo, thanks for the link. That seems like a viable option.

I also think the BD packs carry like shit. They just do not fit me well at all. Definitely try one on loaded up with gear before you buy.

I would not use zip-ties as suggested in harpo's link. Simple and cheap they are, but bombproof they are not. I would use something stronger - like climbing webbing or something - to strap an Avalung to a pack.

At ISSW last year, Theo Meiners of Alaska Rendezvous Heli-skiing, claimed that the backpack style Avalung is more likely to get ripped out of your mouth than the standalone unit due to the angle of which the tube approaches your face.
I think that he may be correct.

I've been rocking the anarchist for a couple of years, and other than having a zipper blow out, it has been pretty solid. Of course, I've never been buried either. However, when I retire the pack I will be going for the standalone unit. I'm a little sketched out that the integrity of the tube in the pack could be compromised after repeatedly getting jammed into the heli basket.

If the weight comes down a little bit more, I think I'll be switching over to the ABS instead of the Avalung pretty soon.

The stand alone is a pain in the ass unless used attached to a different pack.

I have the BD Alias, which is a minimalist version of last year's Anarchist. As far as packs go, BD's packs are basic, their stitching isn't that hot, and nothing close to what is on offer from Osprey (the Variant, Kode or Switch) or Deuter. I find the Alias to be a little too minimalist for me (one ice-axe loop? c'mon...). What sucks is that this year the Anarchist is only available in the 42L version (and not the 32L).

My dream would be an Osprey Variant with an internal Avalung. Then I saw this blog post.... holy sh*t, thanks!

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...k-273244/view/

Not a bad idea, really. As for zipties, sure, climbing webbing might have a higher tensile strength but you'll never be able to cinch it like a ziptie -- the nylon will be too slippery. Give me a ziptie for this kind of job anyday. And sure, your pack can always get ripped off. Or you could suffer trauma. Take your chances; a standalone Avalung has to be attached to the *outside* of your clothing anyway, so if a pack can get ripped off, so can an Avalung.

IMHO, the standalone is just too much of a pain with layering. In BC, where layers are on & off all the time when touring, I find the standalone to be a real PITA. I want something integrated.

Ideal would be if BD licensed the Avalung to other manufacturers for inclusion in their packs. (Ya right .. ). My guess is we don't see that until the patent expires.

Here's an idea: Use zip ties to cinch the avalung on to the pack tightly for the convenience factor, but use some sort of webbing loop or clasp in addition to ensure that it doesn't get ripped off of the pack if you are in a slide. I don't have either item in front of me, so this is pure guessing.

^^^ this is a good idea.

There are zip-ties out there that are probably strong enough, the problem is you never really know what you're getting when you buy them. I buy a LOT of zip-ties and the quality varies wildly, sometimes within the same brand and everything. I've had some that I can break by hand just pulling on them.

Originally Posted by adrenalated

^^^ this is a good idea.

There are zip-ties out there that are probably strong enough, the problem is you never really know what you're getting when you buy them. I buy a LOT of zip-ties and the quality varies wildly, sometimes within the same brand and everything. I've had some that I can break by hand just pulling on them.

I don't really trust zip ties in cold, exposed elements. I've found that the locking mechanism can break quite a bit easier when the temps get below freezing, even on the strong zip ties.

As an absolute last resort safety feature, I think I'd only trust a standalone on your body, or one integrated into the pack.

Zip ties and black heat shrink electrical tape. Works great.

I just bought a Covert 32 since I was getting a new pack anyway, it just made sense. The Outlaw was terrible on my shoulder but the Covert was fine so definitely try them on first.

I have a standalone one and this was driven by a number of factors:

1. I tried the Anarchist pack and the intake box which sits on the shoulder felt odd when weighted;

2. I already had a Dakine 30L for day trips and a Arcteryx 50L for overnight trips that I liked and worked well;

3. I did feel that the Avalung II would stay on your body better in a violent slide while a packed could get ripped off (although, actually this point is really moot as the liklihood of me keeping the value in my mouth in such a slide is probably very small..... even if I got it in there in the first place).

I think the standalone works fine under other packs and obviously with a beacon. I don't think it is a hassle to take it off when changing layers.... honestly, it takes at the most, 15 extra seconds. Seriously.

I think you simply get more flexibility as to packs with the standalone. But if you prefer the BD packs and they carry well for you, I can see why an integrated one may be your choice.

Also agree with BamBam to try the BD packs on first, but make sure you add weight to them.

EDIT:

Just so it is said, an avalung is a last resort for when otherwise bad decisions have been made. Take an avalanche course, get properly trained with your equipment, practice using it often and ease your way into BC-skiing. All in all, be safe but have fun.

I got one of those cheap Coverts that were on TD in the spring but sent it back because it didn't fit and I was already on the fence as it was.

I have an Avalung II that I use with a BD Frenzy and Osprey Exposure 50. I'm picking up an Osprey Kode 38 or Variant 37 in the next couple of months.

BD packs are ok, but Osprey packs are way better IMO.

It's a mild annoyance to take the II on/off when I change layers, but I'd rather deal with that than use a pack I don't like.

Avalung variations aside, I pretty sure I wouldn't be able to get the thing in my mouth if I was in a slide. Although I've never skied with one and so don't know how focused your subconscious is to use it should you need it. But at the moment my money is heading to one of those air bag packs.

( Edit: Having said that I appreciate there is a cost factor here. The piggy bank has a rather hollow sound to it at the moment and an air bag pack is $$$.)

As another thought, I understand some people have been saved by a-lungs, but how many people have worn one, been in a slide and not had time to get it in (hopefully all walk aways)? Really that's the figure that shows if these are an effective aid. Although I do understand any chance is better than none.

The above is a stat I'd be really interested in.