Rice Molding Instructions A La Intuition

[F.D.V.]

Props for the peeps at Intuition for getting back to me in less than ten minutes.

Rice molding instructions follow!

Enjoy!

Steps:


1. Take out your fit kit from your liners; this includes 1 pair of fitting socks, 1 pair of toe caps.


2. Take your old liners out of your boots and replace them with your new Intuition liners.


3. Remove 1 fitting sock from the package.


4. Fill the sock with 3-4 lbs of long or short grain white rice. That’s right, fill it with rice! Use 3 lbs. of rice for sizes 9 and below and 4 lbs. of rice for sizes 10 and above.


5. Now tie a knot at the end of the sock. A figure eight if you know how or a granny knot will also work.


6. Spread the sock out on a counter and form it into a large, long sausage shape.


7. Place the rice sock into your microwave oven; be sure to keep it in an even tubular shape.


8. Set your oven on one of the following settings based on the ovens wattage output 700W - 7 min / 1000 – 1100W 5 min / 1200 – 1250W 4 min


9. Heat the rice sock in the oven for the specified time.


10. Place the toe cap on your foot, left or right your choice. Be sure to place the Intuition logo on your big toe.


11. Place the other fitting sock over the toe cap and pull up the sock evenly, eliminating all wrinkles.


12. When the timer goes off pull your rice sock out of the oven by the knotted end. Be careful it’s hot and you could get burned!


13. Hold it by the knot and place it into your liner. You will need to work the rice sock into your liner by hitting the boot into the floor multiple times first on its heel and then on it’s toe. Keep on tapping it into the floor going back and forth between the heel and toe until the rice sock has settled deeper into the liner.


14. Set a timer for 5 - 7 minutes and let the boot stand with the rice sock inside the liner.


15. Remove the rice sack after at least 5 minutes and place your foot in the boot liner with your toe cap on securely. Buckle up or lace up your boot to the normal tension settings. Keep weight on your boot for 5 – 7 minutes, walking around occasionally.


16. You are now done. Remove your foot, take off the sock and toe cap and get ready to do the next boot in the same way.


If you have any questions or concerns give us a call at (604) 879-9231or send us an e-mail info@intuitionliners.com


Have fun and enjoy your new liners.

[PNWbrit]

Sounds far less fuckupable than the oven..

[F.D.V.]

Yes and no.

It is less fuckupable if you aren't careful about putting your liners in the oven and if you don't have another person/boot spreader. I am not sure why there is this sudden shift away from using the oven to cook the liners, but, LeeLau hit on some possible reasons in his thread on Intuitions.

Personally, I am going to bake my new Intuitions with a blower style heater that will be borrowed from a local ski shop. I will compare the oven baked Intuitions with the blower baked Intuitions and see if there is a difference.

In my humble opinion, I think the oven would work well for high volume feet and the rice/blower method would work better for low volume feet (as there will need to be less compression of the foam for these foot types).

Sounds far less fuckupable than the oven..

[PNWbrit]

I've got quiet feet.

[haydukelives]

are we still aiming for 200deg? how high to ruin the liner?

[khyber.pass]

Personally, I am going to bake my new Intuitions with a blower style heater that will be borrowed from a local ski shop. I will compare the oven baked Intuitions with the blower baked Intuitions and see if there is a difference.

In our shop we carry both the Intuition/Scarpa blower heater and a thermostat-set air oven. We used the air oven for years, and got the blower last year. After some fuse issues, the blower is back in action.

Overall, I think all of us bootfitting prefer the blower. It allows you to heat the liner in the boot, which reduces the dreaded wrinkle issues with getting the liner in the boot (which has called for, in the past, everything from plastic bags to silicon spray to homemade bearclaw contraptions to keep the shell open). The blower is consistent.

What we don't like about the blower is that it heats only from the inside. Sure, this is good, but most of us are accustomed to also molding the outside of the liner. With the blower, the inside molds more than the outside. Sometimes it feels like the outside of the liner expands less to fill the gaps between the shell and the liner, which is more of a concern when you are putting in an Intuition in a boot designed for another kind of liner.

As for DiY @ home, the rice works better than baking, hands down. Much more consistent. As for your tests FDV, I would hope the shop's blower will work much better than the rice or your own home oven.

[skiing-in-jackson]

...

Overall, I think all of us bootfitting prefer the blower. It allows you to heat the liner in the boot, which reduces the dreaded wrinkle issues with getting the liner in the boot...

I've used the blower- and prefer the oven. Yes wrinkles can be an issue and and they appear out of nowhere, but it offers the most consistent heating.

[F.D.V.]

I see where you are coming from, but, to be honest, with my massive volume foot sans arch, I think the baking is the better bet.

I have never had an issue with wrinkles, which probably means I will wrinkle the shit out of my next oven mold. I spread by boots using a 3 way boot spreader, and when my foot is in the liner fresh out of the oven I can step right in (of course, a little lube helps the tight fit).

In our shop we carry both the Intuition/Scarpa blower heater and a thermostat-set air oven. We used the air oven for years, and got the blower last year. After some fuse issues, the blower is back in action.

Overall, I think all of us bootfitting prefer the blower. It allows you to heat the liner in the boot, which reduces the dreaded wrinkle issues with getting the liner in the boot (which has called for, in the past, everything from plastic bags to silicon spray to homemade bearclaw contraptions to keep the shell open). The blower is consistent.

What we don't like about the blower is that it heats only from the inside. Sure, this is good, but most of us are accustomed to also molding the outside of the liner. With the blower, the inside molds more than the outside. Sometimes it feels like the outside of the liner expands less to fill the gaps between the shell and the liner, which is more of a concern when you are putting in an Intuition in a boot designed for another kind of liner.

As for DiY @ home, the rice works better than baking, hands down. Much more consistent. As for your tests FDV, I would hope the shop's blower will work much better than the rice or your own home oven.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

are we still aiming for 200deg? how high to ruin the liner?

240 based on this thread.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=molding

The recommendations have been successful for my home oven liner moldings.

I like the fact they come out like jello...I just feel it does a better job of molding to all aspects of the boot and foot.

[yooper]

(of course, a little lube helps the tight fit).

That's what she said.

[Truenilbog]

I have a pair of Dynafit Zzeus boots in size 27. I normally wear a men's 11 street shoe. However, I tried several size shells and could get 3 stacked fingers behind my heel with the 28. So I went down to a 27. The fit of the shell seems about perfect.

The TFX liner, however, is another matter. My toes touch the end and are ever so slightly curled, similar to comfortable climbing shoes, I guess. My pinkies go numb after about 20 minutes just wearing the liners outside of the shell.

So I'm considering changing the liner. Intuition suggested a 27 medium volume Luxury liner. The existing TFX liner is covered in a material similar to Cordura and even after professional blower heating, doesn't look like it will stretch/pack out much in the toe area.

Will the Intuition liner pack out more during heating and fitting than the TFX? Should I try the 27 or go ahead and size up to the 28 liner? I know a larger liner will fit in the shell, as I've tried a 29ish liner from my mountaineering boots in the Dynafits.

Thanks for any info!

[PNWbrit]

After a dry run with the rice sock just decided to put them in the oven, 220 convection for 11 minutes. No problems getting floppy, puffed up, hot liners onto feet and then into shells resulted in what seems like an excellent fit. Used a toe cap made from two ski socks, green superfeet and a very thin liner sock over the top.

Can't wait to ski them.

[Mr. Toad]

Thanks for the post. Its perfect timing since I just picked up some used boots with Intuitions. What does this rice sock look like? What's it made of? Can I just use some regular cotton socks?

[YoEddy]

I don't understand heating the liners in the oven, then putting on foot, and THEN putting in foot/liner in the boot?

Why not put the liners into the boot first (with footbed) and then put your foot in? I remember reading that is the way the folks at Intuition do it ...

[Wild4umlauts]

YoEddy - there are a couple problems with what you're suggesting. First, when the liner is fully heated (as done in an oven) it becomes very "floppy" with very little support coming from the liner itself. Inserting that floppy liner into the shell and trying to get everything lined up right would be one huge act of frustration.

Second, the first 5 minutes after the foam is heated is the critical time period. You need to get all the parts and pieces together (shell, liner, footbed, foot) as quickly as possible without creating any problems. I have actually attempted your idea once (many years ago) and trying to get your foot into the hot liner once it's already in the boot (without creating bunching and wrinkles) is pretty much impossible. When the liner is hot it just lacks the support - you have to put it on your foot first.

You have to be careful to not compress parts of the liner foam that you don't want compressed. I would think that sticking your foot into a hot liner already placed in the shell would result in a less than perfect fit (but I can't recall exactly what happened when I tried this many moons ago).

[Wild4umlauts]

I haven't attempted this new rice method yet (and I doubt I will), but as I read through Intuition's instructions the main thing that hits me is that this is just their attempt to avoid all the problems beginners have with molding their liners. It may result in more "consistency" in getting successful molds without wrinkles, but it's also not going to result in the best possible liner molding (since the liner won't be molding to the shell as well).

The section where you have to get the hot rice sock fully down into the liner (all the way to the toe) also looks kinda sketch. Can anyone who has done this method chime in on how hard it was to get the rice sock all the way into the liner with the rice still distributed evenly? I bet it's tough to get it all the way to the toe.

I think a possible improvement to this method would include heating the boot shell (lightly). I know there are people who swear that you should never heat the shell, but I've had good success with shell heating with a limited number of boots (I mostly use shell heating for ZipFit liners). I would think that a hot shell combined with the rice sock method could be the final solution that would achieve a good mold on both sides of the liner while still reducing the chances of wrinkles, but I'm wondering if it's possible to heat the shell enough without messing with the liner (since the liner is already in the shell in this new method).

Aw hell - scratch that thought. I'm thinking that what I just suggested would result in the same problems I pointed out in my previous post. If the liner gets too soft and floppy you may end up with the same problems when getting your foot into the hot liner. I guess I may just have to try this once to really see what results.

[Wild4umlauts]

Ok - maybe I'm thinking about this way too much, but here's an idea.

1. Heat the rice in the sock
2. Heat the shell (without the liner) in an oven
3. Put the hot rice sock in the liner (it should be easier to get the rice all the way down into the liner when it's not in the shell - and be able to check that the rice is all the way down into the toe box)
4. Stick the liner (with the rice sock already in it) into the heated shell (quickly - before the outside of the liner gets warm and the liner still has "self-support")
5. Let the whole setup "cook" for the 5-7 minutes Intuition recommends (maybe even put everything back in the warm oven - say at 150 or maybe 200 - to keep the shell warm)
6. Pull the rice sock, put your foot in, and proceed as normal for a fitting

This might avoid the problems of putting a hot liner into the shell while still getting a full mold. The only question in my mind right now is how hard it will be to slip your foot into the liner/shell while everything is hot. You'll probably have to be really careful to not cause any bunching or wrinkling while getting your foot in. Maybe use the "plastic sock" idea here (like many shops use) to allow your foot to more easily slip in.

[L7]

My only comment is have the other boot on already and heat mold that second boot while standing EVENLY in both boots.

[Wild4umlauts]

Ok - maybe I'm thinking about this way too much, but here's an idea.

1. Heat the rice in the sock
2. Heat the shell (without the liner) in an oven
3. Put the hot rice sock in the liner (it should be easier to get the rice all the way down into the liner when it's not in the shell - and be able to check that the rice is all the way down into the toe box)
4. Stick the liner (with the rice sock already in it) into the heated shell (quickly - before the outside of the liner gets warm and the liner still has "self-support")
5. Let the whole setup "cook" for the 5-7 minutes Intuition recommends (maybe even put everything back in the warm oven - say at 150 or maybe 200 - to keep the shell warm)
6. Pull the rice sock, put your foot in, and proceed as normal for a fitting

This might avoid the problems of putting a hot liner into the shell while still getting a full mold. The only question in my mind right now is how hard it will be to slip your foot into the liner/shell while everything is hot. You'll probably have to be really careful to not cause any bunching or wrinkling while getting your foot in. Maybe use the "plastic sock" idea here (like many shops use) to allow your foot to more easily slip in.

I messed around with this process this morning with a pair of Intuition Alpine Powerwraps I wasn't using. The one glaring fault I ran into was the use of custom footbeds (really any footbed). There doesn't seem to be any good place in the process where you can safely get a footbed involved. I should clarify that I'm talking about any footbed that would be killed by heat. Footbeds that aren't harmed by heat (like trim-to-fit Superfeet) would be OK I think, but I would have to test how much heat they can stand (can they live through the hot rice cooking?). You would have to insert the footbed before starting the hot rice part of the procedure. I couldn't insert any of my custom footbeds into my liners when the liners were already in the shells. Maybe I should try the tape the footbed to your foot idea again, but the last time I tried that the footbed didn't end up in the same position on the bottom of my foot as it does when my foot is in the boot. I think that's the problem with that idea - it's hard to guess exactly how your foot lines up on a footbed when it's in your boot. When you just put your foot on top of the footbed outside of the shell the alignment is a bit of a guessing game.

I didn't feel like grabbing any of my cheap off-the-shelf footbeds when I was checking out this process this morning so I went without any footbeds. Other than the footbeds, this does seem to work pretty well. Clearly the liner didn't get anywhere near as hot and "form-able" as when you use an oven, but the liner did take to the form of my foot and the shell pretty well. Although these liners had already been formed once and had good heel pockets. I'm not sure how good the results would be if I started with a new liner that was only pre-formed from Intuition.

To really compare the two methods I would need to use the exact same liner model in the exact same shell using each method and then compare. I may do that and snap some pics, but I guess in the end all that really matters is how they ski. I've also never tried the rice method without the shell heating that I've added, so in reality I don't really know how much better this idea I've come up with is. I guess we'll have to wait on some other "guinea pigs" to give it a shot and report back.

[oftpiste]

my bootfitter always has attached the footbed to my foot - under the toecap, attach with tape, fitting sock over the whole shebang....

[XXX-er]

In our shop we carry both the Intuition/Scarpa blower heater and a thermostat-set air oven. We used the air oven for years, and got the blower last year. After some fuse issues, the blower is back in action.

Overall, I think all of us bootfitting prefer the blower. It allows you to heat the liner in the boot, which reduces the dreaded wrinkle issues with getting the liner in the boot (which has called for, in the past, everything from plastic bags to silicon spray to homemade bearclaw contraptions to keep the shell open). The blower is consistent..

I realize this is a n intuition thread but how about G-fits ,we tried the scarpa blower on my G-fits at the local shop but the oven worked better

on my really tight fit the wrinkles were a big problem

[Wild4umlauts]

my bootfitter always has attached the footbed to my foot - under the toecap, attach with tape, fitting sock over the whole shebang....

Yeah - it's the old school "original" solution. Doesn't necessarily mean it's right.

[F.D.V.]

Forgot to update this action, but, I ended up remolding my Typhoons last night without rice in the oven and got a prefect fit sans wrinkles.

I was dealing with a issue with volume but I removed the boot board, installed a heel shim I made out of foam, and remolded and now the fit is awesome. Had to do a bit of foam work to develop more of a heel pocket but now all is well.

Fuck the rice and the blower, the oven is where it is at!

[telepariah]

I have never had a problem with the oven and have fit every pair of moldable liners I have had over the last 15 years myself -- multiple times as they pack out. I've probably done the job at least 20 times. While the rice method sounds interesting, I think it would be difficult to know for sure if you have the rice evenly distributed throughout the liner when it is inside the shell.

Here are my tips (nothing really new here I don't think):

1. Open a beer and keep it near at hand, close to the oven.
2. Remove the rack from the oven.
3. Preheat the oven to 300 deg F.
4. Turn the oven OFF.
5. Place liners in the oven on a cold rack -- they will not scorch if you don't touch the oven walls with them.
6. Put toe caps on your feet, footbeds in the socks and put the socks over your feet.
7. After about 10-12 minutes, remove one liner, slide your foot in and holding the cuff open as wide as possible (an assistant can help but with Scarpa Tele boots I have no trouble doing this by myself) slide the liner with your foot into the shell.
8. Pull the liner up and wiggle your foot around as you do so to get rid of wrinkles. You have to tug pretty hard to get this done properly.
9. Tap your heel.
10. Buckle the boot only moderately tight.
11. Repeat with the other boot as quickly as possible.
12. Stand with your toes on a 2x4 drinking beer for 15 - 20 minutes.
13. Remove your feet, take the footbeds out of your socks, and put them in the liners.
14. Have another beer to celebrate.

With all that said, I might try the rice method with a spare pair of liners I scored from a friend.

[haydukelives]

"Open a beer and keep it near at hand, close to the oven"

see step #12...how can you make one beer last 15-20 minutes?