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01-06-2010, 03:45 PM #51Registered User
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Sorry 'bout that. I'll defer to the original Yo. Never owned a fat, but I did have a genuine Eddy Merckx bike back in the day. Somehow the name stuck.
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01-07-2010, 06:20 AM #52
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01-09-2010, 01:57 AM #53
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01-09-2010, 08:16 AM #54
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01-20-2010, 10:19 AM #55
Reporting back into this thread on my experience with the full on oven method on the new Full Tilt Intuition Power Wrap liner and the Dabello Gold ID liner.
The Full Tilt boot manual warns that you should not go above 180* F when heating their liners so I used 225* . I used 10 minutes of baking on both sets of liners and got great results. I did not notice any problems with the liners "melting" in any way and the fit was fully formed with good bends and solid depressions. So 225* worked great and maybe I could have gone even lower in temp, but I usually use 240-250* so I felt like 225* was a good compromise.
The main thing I noticed with both sets of liners is that they didn't "blow up" nearly as much as the Intuitions I've used that I got directly from Intuition. I was worried that I was going to have volume problems (with the liners getting too thick after heating), but the Full Tilt and Dalbello versions didn't really blow up much at all - they just got soft and floppy like they should.
Anyhow, I like what Dalbello has done with the liner they developed with Intuition. I'm not sure if the Full Tilt version of the Power Wrap is that much different from what you would get direct from Intuition these days, but they do talk about their multi-laminate construction using 3 different types/densities of foam.
At this point I'm now sure that I'll never bother with the rice method. No need IMO.
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01-20-2010, 10:57 AM #56
I did mine using the oven method with great results.
Went directly with the instructions in the beginning of this thread:
[ame="https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102575"]Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]
The key to me was using the boot spreader:
[ame="https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2680148&postcount=91"]Teton Gravity Research Forums - View Single Post - Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners[/ame]
If I ever decide to recook; for instance if I decide to try insoles, I might consider using the rice method since the outside of the liner has already been molded to the boot shell.
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03-05-2010, 06:33 AM #57Gel-powered Tech bindings
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- Dec 2004
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- Amherst, Mass.
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- 4,684
I have my own boot oven, and have never had any problems with using it, but I'm nervous about using it for the DyNA: the liner foam is a bit thinner than usual, and more importantly the neoprene cutout reduces the liner rigidity so much for insertion that a heated liner might be a hopeless stuff-fest.
I don't know if any shop around here has a blower (anyone have any idea about that for southern New England, or the North Conway area?), so I've been thinking about the rice method.
One concern I had was adequately heating the toe box (which is tight), but this sure seems like the solution:
I mean, once I fully insert the rice sock, seems like I should have enough time to install the liner before it becomes hopelessly floppy?
My other concern is custom footbeds. I saw only one other brief reference to this in the thread, but if I keep my custom footbeds in the liner throughout the rice molding process, will the hot rice sock damage the footbeds?
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03-05-2010, 09:52 AM #58
Generally you'll never want to have your custom footbeds in the liner during any sort of heating. Most are made of materials that will definitely deform with even minor heating. So you should go with the method that heats the liner then put the footbed (alone or taped to your foot) and foot in the liner, then shove everything into the shell.
I'm wondering why you're concerned about the neoprene? I haven't had any issues with that on the one set of liners I've done that had a neoprene toe box. If you insert your foot into the liner and then into the shell you shouldn't have any problem with the loss of "rigidity".
I say use the oven and maybe just go with a slightly lower temp, but longer time (less stress on the foam). Keep checking the liner every 3 to 5 minutes to monitor its progress.
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03-05-2010, 10:21 AM #59Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Thanks for the warning on the custom footbeds. If I try the rice approach, I could mold them with some green Superfeet in there, then put my custom footbeds back in after molding. (I doubt the different footbeds will position my feet so differently that it will affect the molding noticeably.)
The liner's neoprene insert is at the rear of the calf right above the Achilles tendon. Combined with the velcro strap on the liner, this allows the liner to flex back & forth, allowing an amazingly unimpeded skinning stride.
However, it means that when the liner is inserted into the shell, you can't press on the upper cuff of the liner to put pressure on the lower part of the liner. And the fabric tongue is glued across the lower shell. So reinserting the liner even under normal conditions is a bit tricky. Coming out of the oven all floppy, I'm really worried that I'll mash it all up trying to reinsert it into the shell.
I don't think inserting my foot into the liner and then inserting the foot+liner combo into the shell is feasible, but I'll have to experiment with that...
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03-05-2010, 10:33 AM #60Registered User
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- Mar 2008
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- northern BC
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I got the orange liners (one down from the gold in density )in the dalbello surge ,I bought em at Fanatyck in whistler who have a rep as a very good bootfitter ,the liner has a size 24 stamp in a 24 boot
buddy used an oven ,I didnt take notice of the time or temp , but they didnt puff up or or go all limp and it didnt seem to matter if you were not as quick to get your foot in the boot so they seem more stable during the molding than my original riachle thermo fits or G-fits
the fit turned out perfect
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10-22-2010, 01:20 AM #61
Just tried the rice bag method on my BD boa liners after repeated heat gun/hairdryer failures and near meltdowns... Will report on ski-ability after this weekend. With early walking around the house my toes are sans ischemia, and much happier than they were after the other moldings. This doth bode well. Party on Garth
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11-09-2010, 08:20 AM #62
Just an update on this. I confirmed this w Crystal and they also recommend heating the tongued liners in the boot.
I added a 3rd liner to my Intuition collection having molded up a Luxury liner this w/e. Its the first time I'm trying one of their tongued liners.
IMO you are better off popping this one into the boot first and then putting it on the blower.
I molded the liner the 1st time the way I always do it: blower, then on foot, then in boot. The tongue on this liner makes that process fiddly--even putting a nylon stocking on the outside to keep everything together. The warm lux liner is very floppy compared to the pwrap liner making it harder to keep from getting things twisted when putting your foot/liner combo in.
So I reheated them in the boot and and did them the other way. Came out much better the second time.
Also, this was the first time I did not use footbeds in the Intuitions. There is a nice arch built into the bottom of the liner and I'm looking forward to trying the liner w/o footbeds this season.
I will also say this about the lux liner. I put these into a pair of Shamans and they have definitely softened up the boot a notch compared to the stock liner and the pwrap. I may even be able to do some short tours in this combo. By contrast, I think the pwrap in this boot makes it a bit stiffer than stock.
I'm going for max stiff on my foreal order with the plug pwrap.
At that point I should probably stop buying any more liners.
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11-12-2010, 05:31 PM #63
Just posting to say that I used the oven method and it worked perfectly.
Full Tilt First Chairs 27.5
Intuition PowerWrap size 28
Sole Thin Sport foot beds.
In this order:
Heat Oven 300 turn off.
Liners in oven 12 mins.
Sock Toe cups.
Footbed.
Med-thin ski sock.
Hot liner on foot.
Stuff assembly in boot.
Stand toe up on 2x4.
No boot Spreader.
No wrinkles.
They now fit 100% better.
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12-01-2010, 08:04 PM #64Registered User
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- Dec 2009
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- Sun Valley, ID
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- 2,527
So the consensus seems to be that footbeds are ok in the regular powerwrap? I know the new plug has a thinner sole to accommodate them.
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12-02-2010, 05:55 AM #65
CaliBrit - I think it totally depends on your shell fit/available volume for the footbed you want to use.
Your goal should be the absolute tightest shell fit you can tolerate. Then use a thin/firm responsive liner (I'm partial to the Intuition Power Wrap Plug) and welcome to nirvana.
It's possible to "stamp out" the bottom layer of an Intuition BEFORE you put the whole enchilada into the boot during fitting. This takes out some of the volume in that layer, but it does take away some critical time for getting the rest of the liner molded correctly so you really have to have your process dialed in.
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12-02-2010, 07:12 AM #66Registered User
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- Sep 2010
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- 18
First step in the oven method:
Check the temperature in yer oven with a good thermometer!!
I wasted 1 beer and half a day the first time I baked liners. Thing sat in the oven and didn't seem to do anything; when I put it on it barely felt warm...Ended up having to make a run to a store to buy a thermometer and then discovered that the oven was way off...Have to set it 20 deg. F higher to be close to the recommended temperature.
Then it worked perfectly.
I think most of the effort is rigging up proper toe caps and arranging things like insoles. Also critical is how much you buckle the boot when performing the final phase. For Scarpa's I found relatively tight on the instep buckle helped drive my heel into the liner really nicely but actually rather loose on the other buckles.
Never molded my Black Diamonds and happy I didn't - they packed out nicely walking around the house. Dynafit Titans were the same - wore the liners for two weeks straight while watching tv and then the fit was good (toes stopped going to sleep). After skiing them they packed out a bit more too.
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12-02-2010, 11:39 AM #67Registered User
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- Sun Valley, ID
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12-02-2010, 04:25 PM #68
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02-10-2011, 12:52 PM #69
I'm reporting back after using the rice method:
Boots: Krypton Pro 2008 models (non intuition)
Custom Footbeds - Cork Superfeet (pretty thick)
Liner: Intuition Powerwraps
I tried forever trying to figure a method of getting my footbeds into the boots with the liners already in the boots. To make a long story short I did two things to make the rice molding apparently work (have not skied in them yet).
1. I put the rice in the liner outside of the boot, then shoved the boot into the shell - with the tongue removed.
2. I duct taped my footbed to my foot, ripped up the foam pieces from my wife's toe painting spreader deals, through on the Intuition provide toe cap and sock and molded away. I also taped a piece of the foam to the outside of my pinky toe for a little extra space.
Duct taping the footbed was the only way i could get it in the boot. After my foot was in I threw the Krypton tongue back on and tightened my boot etc. I tried to get the rice in the liner with the liner in the boot and it was just not working out. I don't see any downside to shoving the rice in the liner, then liner in the boot. The Liner still is cold and seems to have enough support to be shoved safely into the liner.
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02-10-2011, 01:33 PM #70
I used the rice method to heat mold some Scarpa liners I bought off Sierra Trading Post. It worked reasonably well. In order to make sure I heated the toe, I made a smaller rice in sock ball which I dropped down into the toe first then put the longer sock in after.
It worked reasonably well, though my liners now smell a bit like burnt rice. I also once messed up the toe cup and needed a bit more room in the toe so I just put the smaller ball back in the microwave, didn't account enough for the smaller size and having already been heated several times before. I ended up with tons of smoke and needing to toss water into my microwave. I don't recommend this.
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02-10-2011, 08:07 PM #71
Mine also smell like hot rice, it doesn't stink just you know a distinct smell. I guess foot odor will eventually take care of it
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02-10-2011, 10:06 PM #72
I have one of those cool Bosch heat guns with digital temp control, which can be adjusted in 10 degree increments and has a nozzle for a 3/4" hose so I can pipe heat down to the toes. A month ago Intuition said it should work great if I run it for 7-8 minutes at 250 degrees, just like a shop heat stack. The lady I spoke with said Intuition doesn't recommend using an oven anymore due to it making the liner too floppy and people wrinkling the outside of the liner when they try to put it in the shell.
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02-10-2011, 11:13 PM #73
That sounds straight forward. I'll have to grab one of the digital heat guns, as I'm planning on doing another pair.
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02-10-2011, 11:40 PM #74
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02-11-2011, 05:42 AM #75
Honestly guys - the oven method ain't rocket surgery.
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