Thread: What's the best waterproofing spray

or is the best product not a spray at all?? Been a few years since I've bothered to re-waterproof a coat but I've got a Marmot shell that DESPERATELY needs it, so what have you found works the best?

if its gore-tex,they may replace it

I bought a pair of Kinco gloves this year and they recomended SnoSeal....don't know if it comes in spray, and don't know if it will work for your coat, but won't hurt to look into.

I use the Nikwax Tx Direct on my stuff. Works great. I use the wash in stuff as I can throw in my coats and pants and get it all taken care of at once. I usually do it at the end of the year when I put my stuff away for the summer or at the begining of the season. I'm sure the spray on stuff works well also.

Have you washed it? If it gets dirty I think it helps it pull in water, or at least wet out because it's not breathing. Wash it with that Nikwax tekwash if so, or use their direct pray. GorTex also says drying on medium helps.
or ScotchGuard.

I was dissapointed in the Nikwax wash in stuff... Never tried anything else though, but next time, i will be using the spray on

revive-x

its what arcteryx uses on their productx

sno-seal is a wax for leather, wouldn't want it on a jacket

Originally Posted by JayPowHound

I've got a Marmot shell that DESPERATELY needs it,

No shit dude, when I read the thread title I knew you would mention Marmot in the post. I've got tshirts more waterproof than some of their gear.

I like Scotch Guard outdoor fabric protector. It is meant to be used on outdoor couch cushions and things like that. It has a pretty rough odor, but it goes away in a few hours.

Someone once told me that it clogs the pores of goretex, but I have not noticed any breathablilty issues on the stuff I've used it on.

I had a pair of ski pants that started after years of wear to loose their proofing. Especially in the butt and thighs. I could not find anything local except the ReviveX and Gander Mtn had some Penguin Waterproofing, which I tried. It helped and lasted probably the season before I noticed the same trend. I washed them FelsNaps soap first and then sprayed them. There was a slight residue powder on them that I had to wipe off after I was done and they dried (black pants so was noticable still).

Most of the above products do not water proof the shell, the Gore-tex or other membranes does that, so if it is truly leaking the membrane is bad. The topical products and finishes repel water to cause it to bead up which allows the membrane to breath. If the surface wets out, the membranes stops breathing, but it is still waterproof (if intact), but you get wet from condensation.

As noted washing the shell will after revive the manufactures surface treatment. Some recommend a light tumble in the drier to revive it.

The best answer is to call Marmot and ask them their recommendation since there are so many different fabrics and membranes out there.

hutash correctly distinguishes between "waterproofing" and DWR (durable water resistant) coatings. DWR's function is to help water bead up on the fabric surface. In theory, the PTFE laminate (GoreTex, eVent) or urethane coating (most breatheable waterpoof fabrics) provides the waterproofing. DWR assists by delaying the wetting out that can affect both breatheability and waterproofness. (IME, wetted out BWP fabrics are more likely to seep water).

Some above have mentioned DWR treatments, including Graingers, Nikwax and Revivex products. They all work to some extent if used as directed-- they work best when sprayed on very clean and damp (i.e., wetted out) fabric, followed by throwing them into a medium heat dryer until crispy. But, no matter how much care is taken, DWR treatments will never perform like factory DWR.

The inescapable fact of alpine travel is that brush will abrade off DWR. We PNW alpine travelers have both the most precipt and the brushiest approaches, so maintaining DWR on our shells is a constant struggle.

BTW, it's ReviveX, not Revive-X, not many places sell it at retail, and it's made by these guys, www.mcnett.com

Originally Posted by hutash

Most of the above products do not water proof the shell, the Gore-tex or other membranes does that, so if it is truly leaking the membrane is bad. The topical products and finishes repel water to cause it to bead up which allows the membrane to breath. If the surface wets out, the membranes stops breathing, but it is still waterproof (if intact), but you get wet from condensation.

As noted washing the shell will after revive the manufactures surface treatment. Some recommend a light tumble in the drier to revive it.

The best answer is to call Marmot and ask them their recommendation since there are so many different fabrics and membranes out there.

Originally Posted by Big Steve

hutash correctly distinguishes between "waterproofing" and DWR (durable water resistant) coatings. DWR's function is to help water bead up on the fabric surface. In theory, the PTFE laminate (GoreTex, eVent) or urethane coating (most breatheable waterpoof fabrics) provides the waterproofing. DWR assists by delaying the wetting out that can affect both breatheability and waterproofness. (IME, wetted out BWP fabrics are more likely to seep water).

Some above have mentioned DWR treatments, including Graingers, Nikwax and Revivex products. They all work to some extent if used as directed-- they work best when sprayed on very clean and damp (i.e., wetted out) fabric, followed by throwing them into a medium heat dryer until crispy. But, no matter how much care is taken, DWR treatments will never perform like factory DWR.

The inescapable fact of alpine travel is that brush will abrade off DWR. We PNW alpine travelers have both the most precipt and the brushiest approaches, so maintaining DWR on our shells is a constant struggle.

You both make good points. In fact, the coat is still waterPROOF. Moisture does not travel completely through the fabric, it just doesn't bead up and all off the way it used to. I find that although the inside will remain dry (excepting sweat) The outer part becomes "wetted out" which is what I'm trying to fix. I'll try getting in touch with Marmot to see if they have a recommendation. I'll also give it a wash as many have suggested. It's been a few seasons since it's had one, and that will probably help. I think I'll wash with the Nikwax Tekwash, then maybe try the Revive-X Spray product after. I've used Tekwash before, but never the Revive-X.

JPH, the nikwax stuff is great, but many people just wash their coats with regular detergent or not at all before they try to TX Direct it and make it waterproof again. Failage.

You have to wash it with TECH WASH first, then use the TX direct, then let it air dry. The tech wash leaves no detergent residues behind, which if you had used regular detergent, would totally fuck your waterproofing no matter how much TX Direct washes you put 'er through.

The tech wash is just a prep step and should do nothing to improve your waterproofing. The TX direct is the stuff you need on there. I mean, the shit is $8, even if it only helps a little it's still worth it.

I'm not sure about your Marmot, but my Arc'Teryx jackets and pants responded very well to this treatment. I also got a Nikwax spray for my gloves because they have leather, neoprene AND cordura, and that stuff supposedly works for all that kind of stuff. Won't know until this season, though.

Try this link, and don't be afraid to ask the peeps at BC.com what they recommend.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/sea...j5WNi&q=Nikwax

I wash in the automatic washer with detergent to cleann away the dirt ,then I wash again in just water without detergent to get out all the detergent ,then I drench in revivex or grangers spray-on and thro in a hot dryer

I ran out of one or the other so I did half an arcteryx shell in revivex and the other half in grangers and then wore for a year ... they were pretty equal

Lots of right on info already given here.

One thing to note, the TX direct wash in product is for 3 layer construction jackets, ie. where you can see the seam tape on the inside with a layer of light (often tricot) fabric over it.

If your jacket has a hanging mesh liner it's a 2 layer and you should use a spray on. The theory being that the mesh liner is a wicking layer and you don't want to make it repel water.

Above all else heed all warnings previously stated about not using traditional detergents, especially liquid, they have a surfactant that will strip the DWR coating off the fabric.

The best thing you can do on a regular basis for any technical garment is keep it clean. Dirt attracts water. When the fabric is dirty and the DWR is compromised you effectively shut off the moisture gradient that allows vapor to escape through whatever barrier is there whether it's a PU coating or Gore it's all the same concept. Then you get wet inside but it's coming from you not necessarily the outside.

Noteworthy data from Dr. Shitfacts: the human body gives off a tablespoon of water during a night's sleep, imagine how much comes out when you're working hard?

Originally Posted by Nobody Famous

BTW, it's ReviveX, not Revive-X, not many places sell it at retail, and it's made by these guys, www.mcnett.com

FTR we carry McNett and Nikwax along with many other gear care/aid products. We can get Penguin Products (which is the same company of Nathan Sports) and SnoSeal. If there are any of these products and others needed and hard to obtain, let me know.

Some quality info.. Hutash/Big S/Ticket

What is missing is the core concept of how waterproof/breathable fabrics work. All W/B membranes/coatings work best when the outer fabric is dry. Once the outer fabric is wet, the temperature of the membrane/coating drops, resulting in a dewpoint condition within your shell. All vapor transmission stops at this point. Feeling cold and clammy yet? (In extreme cold conditions, this 'dewpoint' effect is unavoidable, thats why you see 3-ply gear. The vapor will freeze and build-up as a frost layer inside your jacket, linings hold this frost in between the layers. With a 3-ply, you can just shake it out.)

DWR coatings, factory or otherwise address this dewpoint condition. They provide much needed 'shedding' of water and dirt molecules. Once your fabric becomes wet or dirty (water will bond to the dirt very quickly), the water molecules now are in direct contact with the underlying W/B membrane/coating, lowering the temperature. This is not to say that now the water will pour thru the shell at this location, however, condensation inside your sleeve for example will collect at your elbow, giving you the impression your jacket is leaking. Shoulders are the other obvious location, vapor rises, condenses inside the jacket and now "my $550 shell sucks!".

The often overlooked fact is that if the membrane/coating can also get dirty (pores clog from sweat/oils/salt carried off your body as vapor) from the inside, wont that same 'contamination' cause a buildup as it passes thru the membrane/coating into the very fabric we are trying to keep dry with the DWR? The answer is yes, thus it is best to wash all W/B garments often, even a 'clean looking' shell can be filthy at the molecular level.

p.s. Spray-on DWR coatings work much better than the wash-ins, they only put the DWR where you want in, on the outside of the jacket. Just don't overkill, too much can clog up your W/B membrane/coating as well. Another reason not to wash-in these type of fabric treatments.