Help with decision - new camera for skiing

**horizon** · 09-21-2009, 05:53 AM

I've done my research - read reviews in various places and several threads here (including the recent one by BigTrubs which created some controversy). I'd welcome some comments regarding the questions below, especially if you have direct experience of some of the cameras I've mentioned.

My basic dilemma is whether to switch to a DSLR when skiing, or try to stay with a compact, and in the latter case which one.

I already own a DSLR (Oly E510 with lenses covering from 18 to 300 mm in 35 mm-equivalent). I'm afraid that if I take it with me I will lose countless photo opportunities with the camera in my backpack, as my main aim is to ski, not stop for significant periods of time and take ski photos. Also, I'd be worried about falling on it and breaking it.

I could also consider having the DSLR in the backpack (for touring and other occasions when there's time for photography) and a compact in my jacket for quick snaps.

My current compact is a 4-year old Olympus C-7000, which has a decent lens. I've taken some nice shots with it but I'd be ready for an upgrade if there was a good one to replace it.

My IDEAL compact camera for skiing would have:
- an optical viewfinder, however crappy
- a decent burst mode
- a decent shutter lag (I know, it's not going to be DSLR-class)
- decent but not necessarily best-in-class IQ
- waterproofness (but there's no waterproof camera with an optical viewfinder).

So what are my options?
- Canon offers most models with a viewfinder - G10/11, A650IS, SD990...but the burst mode is pretty slow on them - in fact significantly slower than on my old compact. Any recommendations here?
- Nikon P6000? (not the best IQ in class but if anyone here uses it - how fast is it?)
- forget the optical viewfinder...and then which camera? - a waterproof one or a better-quality one with maybe a higher burst rate?
- a speed demon like the Casio EX FC100?
- Others I've missed?
- stay with my Oly C-7000 until someone makes a real upgrade?

Am I missing something important in the decision process? (well, money - let's say that within reason, ie not Leica prices, I could afford it, but I'd pay top dollar only for a cam checking a lot of the boxes).

Thanks for your views!

**smmokan** · 09-21-2009, 08:26 AM

It takes me approximately 10 seconds longer to get my dSLR out than it does a smaller compact camera. If you have the right pack setup, it isn't an issue.

I only say this because your exact reasoning is along the same lines of why I didn't get a dSLR for so long... but I finally pulled the trigger, and I'm surprised at how easy it is to carry and pull out. You won't regret it.

**dumpy** · 09-21-2009, 08:39 AM

You have one of the smaller DSLRs on the market, but yes it is still a pain. I have the same camera and only occasionally take it skiing, which yes does require a pack. BTW what lens are you musing to get 18mm equivalent? That would be a 9mm lens on an Olympus.

I'd suggest checking out something in micro 4/3. Like an SLR, but with no mirror, so much smaller. With an adapter it can use your current 4/3 system lenses.

The Ep1 with 17mm prime would be a sweet pocket camera. 17mm (34mm equiv) at F2.8 would be a good lens for skiing. Fast and wide angle. In camera IS, HD video, lots of win in this camera.

Put one of your longer 4/3 lenses and an adapter in another pocket and you're all set.

**summit** · 09-21-2009, 10:02 AM

You are well researched and you understand exactly what features matter. You've also learned that there is nothing on the market that fits your needs right now. If you want to stay compact, my advice is to buy a used A610 or 620 and wait 6mo or a year for Canon to release some high FPS CMOS P&S cameras with OVF.

**Eldo** · 09-21-2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by dumpy

The Ep1 with 17mm prime would be a sweet pocket camera. 17mm (34mm equiv) at F2.8 would be a good lens for skiing. Fast and wide angle. In camera IS, HD video, lots of win in this camera...

Unfortunately it has one huge weakness: Autofocus that is as slow or slower than many P&S cameras, which is a deal breaker on a larger sensor camera with their shallower depth of field.

Panasonic managed to provide near SLR-like focus speed on their GF1 and GH1 using contrast detect autofocus, but Olympus has not figured out how to make its system anywhere near as good as phase detect. Unless the firmware update they issued last week dramatically improves the autofocus, the EP-1 is not a good action camera.

**Tippster** · 09-21-2009, 11:52 AM

We've been over this countless times. The answer is Holga, and move to Lebanon, NH.

**3snowboards** · 09-21-2009, 11:53 AM

Until they come up with a P/S that has 10meg/6fps, high ISO/low noise, and good glass, it will be a choice between a dslr for good to great shots and a P/S camera where you have to have luck on your side for a shot.
The manufactures are always going to keep the point and shoot segment of the market behind the Dslr in technology.
Q

**mev** · 09-21-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by 3snowboards

Until they come up with a P/S that has 10meg/6fps, high ISO/low noise, and good glass, it will be a choice between a dslr for good to great shots and a P/S camera where you have to have luck on your side for a shot.
The manufactures are always going to keep the point and shoot segment of the market behind the Dslr in technology.
Q

I don't know about that. the panny lx3 is pretty close to what you're asking for.

**summit** · 09-21-2009, 12:19 PM

OK, folks have been PMing asking for something more modern than an A610 and don't care about manual modes.

This guy looks pretty good on paper as a ski P&S:

Sony W150 ~$190
Pros: 2fps, 8.1mp, 5x zoom 30-150mm is a great range, optical viewfinder, optical image stabilization, small, good battery life, cheap
Cons: small buttons, have to use Sony Memory Stick, no M/Av/Tv modes, only standard def video

If you dont need manual/aperture/shutter priority it seems like a good match and you keep the optical viewfinder which is so important for ski shots.

Review here:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/sony/dsc_w150-review/

Disclaimer: I have not fondled this camera so I cannot comment on the UI.

Originally Posted by mev

I don't know about that. the panny lx3 is pretty close to what you're asking for.

What LX3 are you talking about?
no optical finder
1.9fps
terrible noise at high ISO
60mm on the long end of it's tiny 2.5x zoom

**bean** · 09-21-2009, 12:56 PM

slr is the only way to go for getting an acceptable keeper/junk ratio. I've got a camera bag rigged up on the hipbelt of my pack and it works great. Stays out of the way for skiing, and it's in my hands ready to go faster than it'd take me to get a P&S out of my pocket. Only drawback is that it blocks a hipbelt pocket thus reducing my at-hand snickers capacity by two, but that's easy enough to deal with.

**Lonnie** · 09-21-2009, 04:05 PM

PM Bigtrubs.....

**couloir** · 09-22-2009, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Lonnie

PM Bigtrubs.....

too soon...

**Arno** · 09-22-2009, 01:34 AM

I have my eye on a Panasonic GF1 as my first step into the world of DSLR - it'll be interesting to see some more views on that

I have found the LX3 very good in low light so Summit may have a point about high ISO but I have never needed to use more than 400 because the lens is so fast. Not sure it's the ideal ski camera - could do with more zoom and optical viewfinder - but the pics are better than my old G9 and it is much more pocketable

Hugh Conway · 09-22-2009, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Arno

I have my eye on a Panasonic GF1 as my first step into the world of DSLR - it'll be interesting to see some more views on that

I think the GF1/ EVILs (no mirror, not an SLR) have great potential for pocket cameras. If I had some more $, and they hadn't come out just before I left, I'd own one right now. Similar in size to a G10/G11, interchangeable lenses, bigger sensor.

10 seconds is a PITA if you are taking a bunch of shots no way around it (not a problem for the do it for the internet crowd) and the perfect pack doesn't exist, they all suck ass.

**horizon** · 09-22-2009, 03:23 AM

The annoying thing is that all this can be done, and you could market it at a premium as a non-pro, carry-anywhere, active sports camera. Say a 28-140 lens, 10MP sensor, optical viewfinder and at least 2 - 2.5 fps with an ok shutter lag. Not too much to ask for, surely?
(Maybe even waterproof, though that complicates things).

Canon's G series come close but fall down on fps. I'm sure Panasonic could do one of these...

This would not even come close to DSLR quality but it would be there when needed - biking trips, skiing, etc.

The GF1 is intriguing given Panasonic's reputation for fast AF. But it would be biggish with a zoom...I wonder if the 20mm pancake is too limiting - guess I could also carry the zoom lens separately.

Bean, interesting about the camera bag on hipbelt of backpack. Isn't that dangerous (for both the camera and your hip) if you fall on it? And, doesn't the camera freeze off?

Summit, I'll take a look at that W150. But it just doesn't represent that much of an upgrade from my Oly C7000 I guess (well, IS and smaller package, but also smaller sensor).

Thanks for the comments everyone. This winter I may end up trying the DSLR in backpack plus compact in jacket pocket route.

**Arno** · 09-22-2009, 03:36 AM

I have done the camera on hipbelt thing for touring. It's usually in the spring so cold temps less of an issue (although I found the G9 to be not too susceptible to cold); probably no more of a risk to the camera's health than putting it in your pocket. I had a reasonably sturdy case and I generally ski quite conservatively when i have my tour on. Seen some people attach the camera case to the shoulder strap on their pack - can't see how this would not be annoying

**Laxcrazy23** · 09-22-2009, 02:11 PM

I ski with an SLR with a larger lens and have taken some wicked falls with it in my bag. nothing has broken (knock on wood).

I put it in a case inside my bag with some hand warmers. Keeps it warm enough so the battery makes it the whole day.

**Lonnie** · 09-22-2009, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by horizon

The annoying thing is that all this can be done, and you could market it at a premium as a non-pro, carry-anywhere, active sports camera. Say a 28-140 lens, 10MP sensor, optical viewfinder and at least 2 - 2.5 fps with an ok shutter lag. Not too much to ask for, surely?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...ic_dmcfz35.asp

With 1280 x 720 HD to boot....

**Todds** · 09-22-2009, 06:38 PM

Is the olympus SP-590 any good?
10fps burst speeds @ 3MP, 6fps @ 5MP, or 1fps @ 12MP
26x zoom
EVF
smaller than DSLR.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camer...uz-review.html

**summit** · 09-22-2009, 08:14 PM

Todds:

EVF = fail
gotta crop to 5MP to get high framerate, 26x zoom is suspect IQ, have to use XD cards

OTOH it does use AAs (hooray!)

$450 gets you a used 20D and a lens

**bean** · 09-22-2009, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by horizon

Bean, interesting about the camera bag on hipbelt of backpack. Isn't that dangerous (for both the camera and your hip) if you fall on it? And, doesn't the camera freeze off?

The bag is lightly padded, but I know it's there, don't fall much, and if I do, do my best to not fall on top of it. So far it's never been an issue, especially since I don't take it unless the snow is good, it might suck (a lot) to fall on it on hardpack. I've never had any freezing issues.

**LeeLau** · 09-22-2009, 10:48 PM

horizon,

Your Olympus might fit into a smallish radio pouch you can wear in front. It's the kind of pouch that patrollers use.

MEC in Canada sells such a pouch. It's not bad for lift-served. A bit of a pain when touring.

http://www.mec.ca/reviews/pwr/produc...o-Harness.html

**Todds** · 09-23-2009, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

Todds:

EVF = fail
gotta crop to 5MP to get high framerate, 26x zoom is suspect IQ, have to use XD cards

OTOH it does use AAs (hooray!)

$450 gets you a used 20D and a lens

Summit:

I agree with you about EVFs, but a lot of people like/accept them.

I think it will work with micro SD also

Is 5MP so bad if most of your images are viewed on screen or printed at less than 8x10?

On paper it looks like it might not be a bad choice for someone that doesn't want to carry a DSLR. It would be a lot smaller than a 20D with a small/medium sized zoom.

It certainly isn't a pro camera.

**donkeykong** · 11-05-2010, 03:27 AM

bumping this thread...trying to decide on a POV helmet cam or a digi cam with decent video capability.

i want a P/S for its size and ease of use, as i'm a camera noob. most important qualities in digi cam are good burst function, little to no shutter lag, small size. suggestions?