Thread: M*ther#^%#$%!!!!!!!!

Pedaling along at Blue today (in the midst of Debacle - looooove that trail) and hear a creakcreakcreak beyond the norm. Oops. Discovered a crack along the top-tube, about an inch from the seat-tube. Not on a weld, not a super stressed area, not the usual spot to break a frame. . Call and left a message with the builder. I'll either get a GTFO or a completely new frame, or anything in between.

Fast forward to home, and stripping the frame, as well as stripping the olde Peyto frame of its singlespeed bits to transfer parts over...and find two cracks in it! Small hairline on a weld along the drive side chain-stay, close to the BB. Another one Up by the seat-tube slot, about 1/4 of the way around the tubing. Sigh. At least that is something I can have repaired local, for not much dough. Hell, was going to strip it down and repaint this winter anyhow.

A size medium Rocky Mountain Flow DJ frame is on the way, shipped for under $200 now...
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...rame+2008.aspx

Gots to have me a burly hardtail! With the way I like my fork and all, it'll end up with just about the same geometry. Set, at least until i figure out what is up with warranty on the ti frame/get the steel frame repaired.

Are you not running enough seat post insertion?

Or are you just a fat bastard?

Or maybe both?

Originally Posted by toast2266

Are you not running enough seat post insertion?

Or are you just a fat bastard?

Or maybe both?

Way more than the min (by a few inches) in the frame - actually on both frames, and I weigh 150# soaking wet.

hmmm... I guess it just kinda sucks then.
Weird that it didn't crack on a weld though - maybe on an abrupt internal butt?

Is it that taiwanese Ti frame you were running?

Originally Posted by rideit

Is it that taiwanese Ti frame you were running?

Nope.

It's that Chinese frame I was running.

Tubing isn't butted. Thicker walls on the down-tube and chain stays, standard wall thickness on the rest, with lotso' gussetting here and there. The seattube is sleeved for a good chunk of length, to thicken it up and run a 27.2mm post without a shim as well. I'm wondering if all that made it too beefy in some spots, screwing with the flexiness of the material? It's over an inch away from the nearest weld.

Design/drawing/build go between done by Gene Spicer of Spicer Cycles. Does his own steel and alu, but farms his ti out to them. As I understand, he does pretty well with taking care of people who have any problems. That said, i've been riding it pretty hard for near on two years now, so may be SOL.

Yeah, I know: caveat emptor.

At least the steel frame is an easy repair.

Best of luck scrubby. Always like your ride reports. You beat your frames but it seems that you know what you want. Methinks you told the builder that and hopefully they back their work up.

Originally Posted by Daywalker

Best of luck scrubby. Always like your ride reports. You beat your frames but it seems that you know what you want. Methinks you told the builder that and hopefully they back their work up.

heh. the ti bike has a 1yr. warranty, but maybe he'll throw me something anyhow. i'm at nearly two years on it. i've heard/read stories of him taking care of people, but the frame breakage stories i've heard have all been in much less time than it took me to put a crack in this frame. we shall see. i'm not holding my breath.

the steel frame builder has been out of building since 2006; doesn't even have his equipment any longer. at least there are plenty of steel guys who can repair it for far less money than a new frame. it's burly, but a pound lighter than most other frames of its ilk due to some nice tube selection rather than just plain old tank bike frame 4130.

anyhow, i think i'll stick with steel on any future new hardtails anyhow. the flow frame ought to be here in a few days, so at least i've got something to throw the parts on and ride in the meantime.

one yr warranty on ti frame seems pretty damn short. mine has a lifetime warranty, but is XC-targeted.

one of the things that ticks me off a bit about short warranties is that it doesn't take into account how many bikes or skis you own. i have some quiver-filling skis that get used maybe 5 days a season, and some bikes that get used once or twice a month, but on the days i use them i'm glad i have them. if i ever had a 'mfg defect' issue, i would hope the mfg'er could look at the overall condition (paint scratches, etc) and see that it has low mileage.

sorry for the thread drift.

good luck.

my options now are:

have him throw a bead on the tube for free, and he'll also repair my steel frame for free. i pay shipping and to repaint the steel frame. i trust his work enough for this. he has done some steel stuff for me in the past that is still kicking just fine.

he'll still do the steel frame, and i can have the ti frame sent back to xacd for repair/tube replacement at my cost, with hefty shipping.

i'm thinking to have him just do it all, and relegate the ti frame to lighter SS duty, and the steel frame back to the bigger fork/geared setup like it was to start with. it rides a touch better that way anyhow.

Originally Posted by frorider

one yr warranty on ti frame seems pretty damn short. mine has a lifetime warranty, but is XC-targeted.

one of the things that ticks me off a bit about short warranties is that it doesn't take into account how many bikes or skis you own. i have some quiver-filling skis that get used maybe 5 days a season, and some bikes that get used once or twice a month, but on the days i use them i'm glad i have them. if i ever had a 'mfg defect' issue, i would hope the mfg'er could look at the overall condition (paint scratches, etc) and see that it has low mileage.

sorry for the thread drift.

good luck.

Thats a bummer, that bike was super fun. Hope it works out.

Originally Posted by toast2266

Weird that it didn't crack on a weld though - maybe on an abrupt internal butt?

I vote that this is the likely answer. But scrublover says it's not butted, which indicates that it's probably the forward (i.e., nearer to the head tube) end of the heat affected zone.

Originally Posted by uncle crud

I vote that this is the likely answer. But scrublover says it's not butted, which indicates that it's probably the forward (i.e., nearer to the head tube) end of the heat affected zone.

Yep, not butted tubing, or at least it wasn't meant to be. It's about an inch in front of the seat tube. No discoloration or dent or any other visible damage, just that crack. Looked over the rest of the frame, and it appears fine otherwise as well.

Builder has said it'll run 400-500 all done to ship back to XACD to have them replace the tube, as that involves messing with the front end with all its gussets, and all the TT cable guides. He can toss a ti bead across the crack (or any other domestic ti builder) but I figure that won't do much and it'll just crack down the road again. I'm just going to do that and turn the bike into a mellow cruising SS or something. I'm no all that confident in XACD any longer at this point...so don't want to hassle with sending it back to them. For that price I could get a new TransAM frame.

I trust his steel work, and he is going to repair my steel frame (not built by him - builder stopped building in 2006) for free. I just have to pay shipping, and cover new paint/powder coat.

Meantime, I have the Rocky Flow frame on the way to toss parts on. May still order up a TransAM frame anyhow, and sell off the Flow frame later.

Hate this crap.

Yeah the heat affected zone extends beyond where the heat actually causes discoloration. That might be what caused this. Or it could be that the method the builder chose to join the top tube, seat tube and seat stays shifted seatpost/rider related stresses to that point 1" ahead of the junction. An odd thing if there's no butt there, since as toast suggested that's the commonest place for a crack outside a joint.

Cool the builder's standing behind his work. It's a bummer to be without the bike, but he'll probably make sure this doesn't happen again.

Originally Posted by uncle crud

Yeah the heat affected zone extends beyond where the heat actually causes discoloration. That might be what caused this. Or it could be that the method the builder chose to join the top tube, seat tube and seat stays shifted seatpost/rider related stresses to that point 1" ahead of the junction. An odd thing if there's no butt there, since as toast suggested that's the commonest place for a crack outside a joint.

Cool the builder's standing behind his work. It's a bummer to be without the bike, but he'll probably make sure this doesn't happen again.

i'm not too worried. i've got other bikes to ride, and having the steel frame fixed is actually of greater import. overall, i like it just a touch more. it's not a full replacement, but i knew the score going into buying it that if something happened i may not end up with a great deal after all. at least i got near two years of quality ride time on it first. they're just hunks of metal.

if i had to pick an off the shelf replacement, it'd be a tranny transAM frame. chromag stylus for a bit more cash, and custom for a bit more. the flow frame ought to work fine until the peyto is fixed though. geometry numbers on paper + my fork setup should give me the actual geometry i like.