ACL Tear?

**AgileBC** · 07-24-2009, 06:37 PM

Hi,

I found this forum in my Google search on ACL tears. There is lots of good information here!

Anyway, my sport is dog agility. (I was a skier many moons ago when I lived in CO). Running in dog agility is very similar to soccer in that you sprint, twist/cut and turn a lot... Last night in class when performing a specific maneuver my foot caught on the floor matting as I was changing direction and I took a spill. I didn't hear a pop, but when I got up I could barely put weight on my right leg as my knee felt very weak and wanted to buckle.

I put ice on it right away, then managed to pack my dog and gear in the car to go home. I reached up to pull the back hatch down and as I was pulling down my knee buckled to the inside.

I went to see my GP earlier today (actually it was one of his colleagues since he was off today). She was puzzled because she performed the Lachman test without my feeling any pain; and neither do I have much swelling. She did the obligatory (per insurance) x-ray which of course didn't show anything. She said we couldn't do an MRI right off the bat (again because of insurance!

) but that would tell us for sure (of course!). Grr.

So, based on the little swelling there was, and the Lachman test, she wasn't ready to make a diagnosis. I happen to be seeing a PT for my plantar fasciitis and will have another appointment for that on Monday. The doc wanted to wait the weekend to see what my knee does, then Monday when I go back to PT let the PT know what is going on and see if she has an opinion. I guess then an MRI would be the next step.

My question is what do you all think is the likelihood of this being an ACL tear? I've read where some people had little swelling like I do and even the same experience with no pain when doing the Lachman test (maybe I wasn't so relaxed either hence a 'false negative') and they ended up with one. If I sit for a long period of time my knee gets stiff when I get up. I walk on it very gingerly and try not to do any sideways movement because I don't want my knee to buckle again. I was supposed to run my dogs in an agility trial this weekend, but unless hell freezes over that ain't gonna be happening!

I've never injured this knee; I did twist my left one ages ago when skiing but didn't tear anything. It got stiff and swelled a little and I had to walk stiff-legged for a few weeks but that knee never wanted to buckle like this one.

Is it possible to stretch the ligament - ACL or otherwise - without it tearing? And still cause the knee to want to buckle? <-- that is the part that we were puzzled about. Of course this is all speculation until I get that MRI to know for sure, but I'd appreciate your thoughts!

Linda

**SkiED** · 07-24-2009, 07:05 PM

without an mri all you're going to get is a bunch of internet speculation.... I say you tore it my roomate says you didnt. Was that helpful for you?

good luck hopefully you didnt.

**mtnbikerskierchick** · 07-25-2009, 02:26 PM

I've known a lot of people to tear ACL's w/o even knowing it. It doesn't have to swell up. You'd probably be in more pain if you stretched or partially tore your ACL or other ligament. Generally, completely tearing an ACL is not very painful, unless you did damage to other things along with it. Since you mentioned the Lachman test- that didn't hurt me either when I tore mine in February. At any rate, I wouldn't put much stock in what any general practitioner has to say. It's just not their forte. The doc I saw after I tore my ACL didn't think I tore it. But when I saw an ortho, she did the same Lachman test and said I did. Get an appointment for an ortho. Your GP shouldn't have a problem with that. A lot of times, orthos can tell w/o even getting an MRI.

**KimD** · 07-26-2009, 01:50 PM

^ I agree. When I saw my GP back in November, she emphatically told me "you DO NOT have a surgical knee." Shows what she knew.

**jerlane** · 07-26-2009, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by mtnbikerskierchick

I've known a lot of people to tear ACL's w/o even knowing it. It doesn't have to swell up. You'd probably be in more pain if you stretched or partially tore your ACL or other ligament. Generally, completely tearing an ACL is not very painful, unless you did damage to other things along with it. Since you mentioned the Lachman test- that didn't hurt me either when I tore mine in February. At any rate, I wouldn't put much stock in what any general practitioner has to say. It's just not their forte. The doc I saw after I tore my ACL didn't think I tore it. But when I saw an ortho, she did the same Lachman test and said I did. Get an appointment for an ortho. Your GP shouldn't have a problem with that. A lot of times, orthos can tell w/o even getting an MRI.

Well said. I agree with everything stated above. Lachman's is not done to assess for pain, it is done to test for stability. It is not an easy test to do unless you do it a lot and develop a feel for it. Your description of your symptoms certainly could be an ACL tear, but there are other things that can present similarly. Your PT should have a better feel, but you really should see someone in Ortho if the knee is still giving you trouble.

L7 · 07-26-2009, 08:14 PM

When I did my ACL (full rupture) there was little to no swelling and little pain. Thinking back I realized there was intense but brief pain when I did it. I'm told the lack of pain and swelling may have been due to the full rupture. I tested fairly stable although my knee did sag at little when the leg was lifted by the toe and I could feel the knee moving in all new exciting ways.

At any rate the first doctor completely misdiagnosed it largely based on lack of swelling and pain as well as the stability. I will say I didn't so much hear but certainly felt a 'pop' or feeling of a big rubber band stretching tight and snapping in my body.

BTW since you are new to TGR there is some leeway for your oversight. However it is traditional when new and asking helpful advice to post naked pictures of yourself to appease the helpful if not lascivious amongst us.

**splat** · 07-26-2009, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by L7

BTW since you are new to TGR there is some leeway for your oversight. However it is traditional when new and asking helpful advice to post naked pictures of yourself to appease the helpful if not lascivious amongst us.

I'll post a proper medical diagnosis and do an MRI here via the interwebz as soon as those pics are up.
Thanks for picking up the slack, L7.

CravenurdotterII · 07-26-2009, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by AgileBC

Hi,

I found this forum in my Google search on ACL tears. There is lots of good information here!

Anyway, my sport is dog agility. (I was a skier many moons ago when I lived in CO). Running in dog agility is very similar to soccer in that you sprint, twist/cut and turn a lot... Last night in class when performing a specific maneuver my foot caught on the floor matting as I was changing direction and I took a spill. I didn't hear a pop, but when I got up I could barely put weight on my right leg as my knee felt very weak and wanted to buckle.

I put ice on it right away, then managed to pack my dog and gear in the car to go home. I reached up to pull the back hatch down and as I was pulling down my knee buckled to the inside.

.

I went to see my GP earlier today (actually it was one of his colleagues since he was off today). She was puzzled because she performed the Lachman test without my feeling any pain; and neither do I have much swelling. She did the obligatory (per insurance) x-ray which of course didn't show anything. She said we couldn't do an MRI right off the bat (again because of insurance!

) but that would tell us for sure (of course!). Grr.

So, based on the little swelling there was, and the Lachman test, she wasn't ready to make a diagnosis. I happen to be seeing a PT for my plantar fasciitis and will have another appointment for that on Monday. The doc wanted to wait the weekend to see what my knee does, then Monday when I go back to PT let the PT know what is going on and see if she has an opinion. I guess then an MRI would be the next step.

My question is what do you all think is the likelihood of this being an ACL tear? I've read where some people had little swelling like I do and even the same experience with no pain when doing the Lachman test (maybe I wasn't so relaxed either hence a 'false negative') and they ended up with one. If I sit for a long period of time my knee gets stiff when I get up. I walk on it very gingerly and try not to do any sideways movement because I don't want my knee to buckle again. I was supposed to run my dogs in an agility trial this weekend, but unless hell freezes over that ain't gonna be happening!

I've never injured this knee; I did twist my left one ages ago when skiing but didn't tear anything. It got stiff and swelled a little and I had to walk stiff-legged for a few weeks but that knee never wanted to buckle like this one.

Is it possible to stretch the ligament - ACL or otherwise - without it tearing? And still cause the knee to want to buckle? <-- that is the part that we were puzzled about. Of course this is all speculation until I get that MRI to know for sure, but I'd appreciate your thoughts!

Linda

How about a picture of your BC??

My wife tore her ACL and really didn't know until she had an MRI. A hamstring tear would cause buckling also but I would wager you'd be black and blue all over from that. Don't run on that sucker until you get it diagnosed.....don't want a big cartilage tear on top of ligament damage.
In fact I would get in a brace immediately to stabilize the joint

**FredsTrees** · 07-27-2009, 09:27 AM

get a knee ortho to do a lachmans and confirm it with a MRI.

The MRI is 90% accurate or so. The lachmans done by someone who does it several times a day is as well.

Your ACL is.....torn. But WTF do i know?

**rhodes.mike1** · 02-27-2013, 06:51 PM

Hello, I have an ACL injury the doc told me my acl is torn but not completely. I am a dancer. I can walk down stairs.. up hurts a bit. I cannot do a squat on my right leg without pain. I used to be able to walk well and dance still with my leg giving out only on cetain twisting moves. It hurts sometimes now to walk.

The doc told me to get the hamstring surgery instead of the bone. Is this better? Is recovery better? IS there anything I should ask the doc before my surgery in 3 months? Please help, thanks

**Chainsaw_Willie** · 03-04-2013, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by FredsTrees

get a knee ortho to do a lachmans and confirm it with a MRI.

The MRI is 90% accurate or so. The lachmans done by someone who does it several times a day is as well.

Your ACL is.....torn. But WTF do i know?

What everyone else is saying. Get thee to an Orthopedic surgeon. Preferably one that works in sports medicine. I wouldn't trust a general practitioner to properly diagnose something like this.

As to which surgery is best, I can only say that when my first one was done 18 years ago they did the hamstring tendon graft and that worked out really well for me. The doc that did that surgery has since retired or I'd go back to him. I haven't spoken yet with the doc that will be doing my next surgery so don't know what the state of the art is or what he'll recommend this time around.

**Wildman** · 03-04-2013, 02:08 PM

I recently tore my ACL. I had very minimal swelling in the first 24 hrs and no pain.

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