Thread: Government waste

Aren't govt contracts really just redistribution of income? Taxpayer dollars are handed out to "GC's", who then hand it out as they see fit. Not just construction - all contract work!

Why don't certain groups of people get in a wad over this type of redistribution? Weird...

Just cqall him "DJ SNAP!"

Originally Posted by DJSapp

The government/owner pays bills according to the specs, usually 30-60 days after the monthly pay application. To cover costs, most projects have a mobilization item (which can vary in size, but usually winds up being about 5% of the bid) which is paid up front. After that first payment, the trick is to submit your billing so you maintain a positive cash flow (a completely different strategy).

If the government is late in payment, case law supports the contractor being paid in full + interest for every day payment is withheld. Usually the interest isn't enough to cry about, but it's good for horse trading in the end.



The chaos that would come from allowing anyone to submit a number to see if they're low without any risk would pretty much stop all public works from EVER happening. Think about it. You could turn in a number for any project out there, and just walk away if you don't like where you ended up. This pretty much invalidates the closed bid system.



See also the current padded room thread. The sad fact is contractors go under or walk off losing jobs on a regular basis. When this happens, and the government is holding a bond, the bond kicks in and pays whatever it takes to finish the project (instead of doubling the cost of construction). THIS PROTECTS THE PUBLIC FOR FRACTIONS OF A CENT ON THE DOLLAR.



Sigh, lawyers do suck, but this is everywhere. I suggest you pm Irul with complaints.



Prevailing wage or union scale? You make the call, they're both about the same. At least the prevailing wage laws helps to keep the unions a tiny bit further out of government as well as allowing non-union contractors to remain non-union.

As far as the rest of your crying, I have a couple words: 'Or equal' and 'Value Engineering.' First, most specifications allow the substitution of products that can be demonstrated as superior or equal in all aspects of performance to the specified product. The typical exception to this is expansion to existing facilities where for maintenance reasons they want to keep similar products. If there is no reason for this, you can file a claim, and there is case law that supports substitution of products as long as you can clearly prove that in every aspect your product is superior or equal (this may be very difficult, as judges are not engineers). The way you sugarcoat it is to partner up with government and perform some 'value engineering' Basically you say, 'hey dumbass, if you back off your spec just a hair and let me use this, we can save $$$ and we'll split the difference 50/50.' That usually gets their attention if the savings is large enough to pay for the 10 meetings they will have to discuss it.

Keep going, please.

Holy shit, a well thought out informative post in the asshat room. Damn, who would have thought.

Seriously, thanks for taking the time. You left me with nothing to argue.

Originally Posted by Grange

There is often a process on large scale projects i've been involved with. It's called a pre-bid meeting.

Your experience is way off from my when it comes to government project. Trying to get the designers to spec out anything from a method of construction to a selected site (borrow or waste) is like getting Dick Cheney tell the truth. I just rarely happens.

I've been to several preconstruction meetings for ARRA funded projects and the controls on spending are very restrictive compared to a normal project. Change orders aren't a given anymore and the scrutiny on prompt payment or work performance is heavy.

The contractor that often gets the job is the contractor that does the most homework.

I don't have much experience with government work. Typically I am isolated from the headaches by a couple layers of contractors above me. I am still a rookie in this whole game.

Around here on the larger projects it really seems like it's who fucked up that gets the job. In other words, who forgot to price something out, etc...

dbs, the construction market is a scary place right now. New projects and funding has dried up (hence the new buzz word shovel-ready), and generals are slitting their own throats to keep revenue coming in just to keep the lights on. This basically means some contractors are bidding work pretty much at cost, so if you miss something it going to hurt. What makes this even more scary is the influx of residential contractors trying to get into the public works arena who have no idea what they're doing. Lots of businesses are getting killed out there.

I can't begin to tell you how many projects I have bid where the low bid was under my direct cost. Some have even come in under my direct cost without labor. If you're wanting to gain the broader vision, get a full copy of the specs, read and understand the general requirements (division 0 and 1).

Add in the supposed stricter controls on change orders so missing something could really cost the contractor. I knew a couple of contractors that were known as the "kings of the change orders". I swear they must plan the number of change orders before bidding to calculate their profit. Not surprisingly one of them hasn't gotten much stimulus work.

As far as the shovel ready projects for the stimulus bill that is crap. I've got a lot of project aren't close to shovel ready and they are being funded for construction as early as this year. If you want to see the government scramble look at a new project that has the ARRA logo on it.

Originally Posted by Grange

As far as the shovel ready projects for the stimulus bill that is crap. I've got a lot of project aren't close to shovel ready and they are being funded for construction as early as this year. If you want to see the government scramble look at a new project that has the ARRA logo on it.

We've located a number of projects that are going through or that will go through P&E with stimulus funds. The P&E efforts are on a fast track to be construction ready in 2012.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

We've located a number of projects that are going through or that will go through P&E with stimulus funds. The P&E efforts are on a fast track to be construction ready in 2012.

Perfect a fast track gov't project ready for construction, just when the Earths supposed to end... how typical !!

Within the last two weeks I've received proposals for four brand new projects that had not been reviewed and would not have gone forward were it not for the stimulus bill. Let's not count the projects that were close to shovel ready that received stimulus funding.

For anyone that thinks the stimulus bill isn't creating jobs should see my in-basket. Though after today I was able to review three of them so that leaves one exiting project until the mail comes tomorrow.