Thread: Obama/North Korea Policy

How is Cheney behind this latest sabotage of Obama's new world order?

Bueller?

What happened?

Don't worry, Obama will just talk to them and make it all better.

How is Cheney behind this latest sabotage of Obama's new world order?

well i'm no expert, but i would think the scope of foreign policy of the US right now is rather limited, due to the forces being engaged in finding wmds and obls in iraq. i'm sure, i'm not the only one who figured that out. ahmedinjad, kim, putin and obl (the other one) immediately come to mind.

Originally Posted by I Dunno

What happened?

there was an earthquake with the magnitude of 4.7 in north korea.

The Police song So Lonely* is unbelieveably rad.




* ok: North Korea - Kim JONG Il, JONG Il - "Me so ronery" (Team America), "Me so ronery" - So Lonely by the Police. Seriously, tell me this doesn't rule:

Originally Posted by Cono Este

How is Cheney behind this latest sabotage of Obama's new world order?

Bueller?

I'll bite.

GWB fucked it up by refusing to sit down and talk with Kim without preconditions.

He hid behind the five way talks with China Japan and other countries that dont matter.

He pissed off the little bastard an made him go nuke u lar.

not obamas fault. Kim was there first. and Shrub was there before he was.

Originally Posted by Core Shot

not obamas fault. Kim was there first. and Shrub was there before he was.

And Clinton was there before shrub and did exactly what you say Bush should have done. How did that work out?

Bottom line: N. Korea wanted Nukes to raise it's status in the world. They have been working on them for a long time and now they have them. In retrospect there is nothing anyone, other than China, could have done short of a military strike that would have prevented this.

The question is, what to do now. You know Iran is watching this closely. What we do here will set the stage for our treatment of them when they get nukes.

Maybe the int'l community should publicly ignore him, cut him off completely and continue intense security monitoring and survelliance. Don't answer his calls, send his mail back, oust every NK ambassador/consul, refuse any air travel/landing access. No food, oil, fuel. The little shit will never give up his nukes, using them assures that NK is turned into a sheet of glass. Stoned thoughts on a Monday nite.

This is Clinton admin. leftovers. Anyone remember M. Albrights talks with the midgett ?? Those did a lot of good.

Time will tell, but if you cosider all the starving N. Koreans that have bought the farm pre maturelly the last 50yrs, I'd say next its wonderful work in Palestine, N.Korea might be the Un's finest failure or proof we should have just fought it out then and there.

True, McArthur was first lunatic to dream of a mushroom cloud over the korean peninsula, but maybe he just needed to wait a bit a longer for it.

The other lunatic, is honestly capable of it.

It is truly unfortunate that due to the previous administrations' failure in taking us in to Iraq, and this administrations' failure in getting us out of Iraq, that we are not in a position to deal with this correctly.

My knee jerk reaction, and not necessarily a bad one,if you ask me, is to launch a massive tactical airstrike against North Korea followed up by strategically taking out NK troops and inserting our military. Completely wipe out the heads of their government and military. Disarm their military, and then let Iran know, that we will do the exact same thing if they keep fucking around.

But, that's not what we will do.

North Korea better watch out, the UN security council is on to them and is...................OMG! They are drafting a new resolution!!!



"In an unanimous statement adopted just hours after Monday's nuclear blast, the Security Council decided to start work immediately on a new resolution, condemning Monday's test as a "clear violation" of a previous resolution banning such tests in 2006."

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...14165620090526

Just for you, snookums...

Did they use enough plates? Clearly have a dishwasher, and are global warming denyers, spewing detergent and cyanide directly in our faces.

Bastards.

If you want to be pissed at Obama for something here, be pissed that he cancelled the Air Borne Laser.

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

My knee jerk reaction, and not necessarily a bad one,if you ask me, is to launch a massive tactical airstrike against North Korea followed up by strategically taking out NK troops and inserting our military. Completely wipe out the heads of their government and military. Disarm their military, and then let Iran know, that we will do the exact same thing if they keep fucking around.

AHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Oh wait... you were being serious. My God, that is the stupidest idea I've read in weeks.

North Korea is NOT anything like Iraq... or Afghanistan... or Iran. You can't just disarm them without serious consequences. They have spent the last 50 years making sure of it. Nuclear weapons are just the latest tool in the box. There is no way to accomplish what you propose without killing millions of SOUTH and North Koreans, and probably tens of thousands of Japanese. Not to mention, there would be more dead American servicemen in a week than have died in the last 6 years.

You hate Bush for Iraq? Iraq was a mistake, not because a Republican did it, but because it was a bad use of American lives, money, and resources. What the fuck makes you think your disarming first strike and occupation of North Korea is a good one? Because a Democrat is in office it's suddenly OK to beat the war drums no matter the target? Seriously... you are a fucking moron. STFU and never speak about foreign policy again.

Originally Posted by Summit

AHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Oh wait... you were being serious. My God, that is the stupidest idea I've read in weeks.

North Korea is NOT anything like Iraq... or Afghanistan... or Iran. You can't just disarm them without serious consequences. They have spent the last 50 years making sure of it. Nuclear weapons are just the latest tool in the box. There is no way to accomplish what you propose without killing millions of SOUTH and North Koreans, and probably tens of thousands of Japanese. Not to mention, there would be more dead American servicemen in a week than have died in the last 6 years.
.

Not that I'm endorsing a military strike, but what do you think they would do ?? What's NKs scenario if attacked ?? I'd be thinking a bout a Chinese response as well, in any scenario you deem plausible.

North Korea has insane amounts of artillery and it is very well emplaced, so well that counterbattery would not be very effective. You couldn't hope to wipe a significant portion out in a first strike without nukes, and even then, you would definitely not get it all. They would have enough left to turn Seoul into a rubble heap sprinkled with fleshy bits in an hour or two. This is the primary basis of DPRK's deterrent force. It would be an artillery barrage unlike anything the world has seen.

North Korea has a bunker system that rivals if not surpasses anything else on the planet. They have a great number of bunkers that we cannot destroy without nukes. In those bunkers are ballistic missiles and chemical and biological weapons. They would be launched at Japan, ROK, and US bases. This, more than anything, is why we have been working on ballistic missile defense (and why we are working hand in hand with Japan).

Add to that, North Koreans streaming across the DMZ in predug tunnels and precharted gaps in the minefields and you'll have a full on meat grinding ground war, and it is unknown as to whether USFK and ROK's Army could stop them without heavy ground reinforcements from the USA. Korea is not open desert where awesome feats of maneuver by long positioned heavy formations will flank, envelop, overrun, and crush the enemy like we did in Iraq (twice). Korea is hills and mountains. There will be lots of blood. The Korean peninsula has been its own mini cold war since the 50s. Instead of Soviet armor pouring through the Fulda Gap, you'll have fanatical North Koreans streaming across the DMZ. North Korea has been preparing for this for a long time.

It's not that we couldn't beat them, it's that it would be painful, bloody, costly, horrible... we don't want to light that firecracker. That's deterrence.

What would China do? Be EXTREMELY fucking pissed that we lit the firecracker on their doorstep. They definitely wouldn't be stoked on an occupying army doing a regime change on their border. Would they fight us in Korea like they did last time? Not likely. They have an easier power play now. If they wanted Taiwan, that would be their opportunity even with our entire might in the theater. We don't want to fight China and North Korea at the same time, even if we weren't tied up in the sand box. Actually, we don't ever want to fight China.

We could mop the floor with Iran, rather bloodlessly on our part, if all we did was airstrikes against their missile forces, air force, air defense, and nuclear production facilities. There'd be a few missiles tossed at Iraq and Israel, maybe a few ships sunk in the Gulf, but it wouldn't be very costly in lives to the US or it's allies. Iran probably wouldn't shoot at the Arab nations because then they would have a pretext to actually invade.

Iran versus North Korea... Israel is 700 miles from Iran and there's 7 million people there. North Korea has 50mil allied civilians within 200 miles and 175mil within 500 miles. Guess who can kill more?

North Korea does shit like this to secure their position and because they want us to bribe them yet again to stop rattling their saber. And we'll bluster, negotiate, and pay them off until the next time. I wonder who the next Dear Leader will be? KJI is reary ronery and ill these days.

I don't have much confidence in anything created by N. Korea. Have you guys read the book "The Reluctant Communist"? It puts in perspective how inept the N. Koreans are at just about everything. They can't produce enough electricity for their citizens, enough food for them, enough water, etc etc etc...yet we should be worried about them like they are damn near equal playing ground as the US militarily on the Korean Peninsula? I just don't buy it although i don't know much about their military prowess. I'm sure they have a ton of guns pointed at S. Korea...now would the artillery rounds actually work? Who knows. Most of it must be over 50 years old and being run by some innept N. Korean Kim Jong Il brainwashed citizenry. Also, beautiful architecture there:

Seriously though, this latest show is probably because they ran out of grain or heating oil and want the West to pay them off. Again, if you want to be pissed at Obama, be mad he cancelled the Airborne Laser program, a great counter to North Korean missile attacks.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

we should be worried about them like they are damn near equal playing ground as the US militarily on the Korean Peninsula? I just don't buy it

Of course we would stomp them in a war, but at what cost? (especially to South Korea)

There's less than 30,000 US troops in Korea. There are over 2 million DPRK troops. Their army *IS* their priority. They are the most highly regimented and militarized society on the planet. They get first dibs on food and money. When the peasants are starving, the army is still well fed.

I'm sure they have a ton of guns pointed at S. Korea...now would the artillery rounds actually work? Who knows. Most of it must be over 50 years old

Old shells work just fine. Artillery shells aren't that different today than 30 years ago... or 50 years ago... or 90 years ago. Most of it is newer than Korean War vintage. The Chinese buy land in NK and pays in weapons.

Originally Posted by Janes Information Group

Jane's International Defense Review estimates that if North Korea launched an all-out barrage, it could achieve an initial fire rate of 300,000 to 500,000 shells per hour into the Seoul area –– home to about half the country's 48.5 million people.

The biggest are 170-mm self-propelled artillery guns and 240-mm multiple rocket launchers. It also has hundreds of Scud missiles that could hit any part of South Korea.

North Korea is also thought to have been working to attach chemical and biological weapons to its long-range artillery.

^If the thought of that, or even half of that, doesn't send shivers of carnage down your spine, I don't know what to tell you.

Originally Posted by Summit

post

Your post is spot on, I would like to add to it that to some degree the war would almost be the easier part in that at least we know what to do. Post conflict someone would be responsible for that shit hole once Kim Jong and Co where out. If you think Iraq is tough imagine a place where millions of people think Kim Jong went to the moon and invented the car, your essentially talking about showing up and telling millions that the last 60 years of their lives was complete bull shit.

Additionally North Koreans who have made it to the South have a real hard time as they are not able adapt to a society with so much personal freedom and lack of a top down structure.

Is it possible ? Sure but it would be ungodly expensive and time consuming.

Originally Posted by Summit

Seriously though, this latest show is probably because they ran out of grain or heating oil and want the West to pay them off. Again, if you want to be pissed at Obama, be mad he cancelled the Airborne Laser program, a great counter to North Korean missile attacks.


Of course we would stomp them in a war, but at what cost? (especially to South Korea)

There's less than 30,000 US troops in Korea. There are over 2 million DPRK troops. Their army *IS* their priority. They are the most highly regimented and militarized society on the planet. They get first dibs on food and money. When the peasants are starving, the army is still well fed.



Old shells work just fine. Artillery shells aren't that different today than 30 years ago... or 50 years ago... or 90 years ago. Most of it is newer than Korean War vintage. The Chinese buy land in NK and pays in weapons.


^If the thought of that, or even half of that, doesn't send shivers of carnage down your spine, I don't know what to tell you.

It does send shivers down my spine...I just don't think the N. Koreans are nearly as militarily effective as they once were...and the idea of them developing a nuke bomb seems to complex for them...then again they could kidnap some scientists and engineers and force them to build one I suppose. The carnage would be insane...I just have little confidence in the N. Koreans ability to do much these days.

Here's how this all plays out: KJI is getting older and sicker. His next of kin are into the western lifestyle and not nearly so fanatical as their nutty pops and grand-pops. KJI dies, probably of a current ailment, perhaps in a quiet assassination/coup. Military leaders take the helm, can't cooperate and don't like the mess they've won - so they fight amongst themselves some. Intelligence agencies from around the world are in the background trying to win over the military leaders, this will involve CHina, US, Japan, South Korea, Russia, and many more nations and/or interests. The US or one of our allies in the area will probably "win" this game because we have more allies and more levers to pull with those allies - but I wouldn't count out China, they are already competing hard. So with some other country managing a puppet gov't in NoKorea, we'll have some "populist leader" rise and do the bidding of one of the super powers. These activities will include some reconciliation with SoKorea (America), the mysterious vanishing of huge amounts of weapons (Russians), the greater influence of China on the entire peninsula (China), and a whole new set of Tom Clancy books about "how we pulled it off" while the real story will be less glamorous but more disgusting skullduggery by the double-oh-sevens of the world.
Ten years.

Yeah, ride is a homo with a hairdo.