Thread: Dear Conservatives

Originally Posted by OSECS

Can they without major legal maneuvers ?? I don't know.

Reason I ask: if they can(it makes sense that they should be able to) and aren't, then Bush didn't destroy or even erode our system of checks and balances(as many have claimed). Instead, he merely revealed that it was already broken and the fault lies with congress for not doing their constitutionally mandated job, not with the Bush administration.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Reason I ask: if they can(it makes sense that they should be able to) and aren't, then Bush didn't destroy or even erode our system of checks and balances(as many have claimed). Instead, he merely revealed that it was already broken and the fault lies with congress for not doing their constitutionally mandated job, not with the Bush administration.

That's making my brain hurt.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Yes it was, which was during the time when Bush was(according to the Lefties) one of the worst presidents of all time and despised across the nation and around the world. Yet most people still identified themselves as conservatives. Showing how wrong you are when you say:



Conservatives are driven by their values, not party affiliation, and this is what so many on the Left misunderstand. Their support of Obama is a statement of what they thought of the Republican party, not an endorsement of Obama and his policies. Once conservatives disillusionment with the republican party begins to fade, as it will in time, so will their support of Obama because their values are in such contrast to his.

So I agree with you. That poll is very eye opening.

My God you are living is la la land. Conservatives are diven by their values? They they voted for Obama and still support him even though "their values are in such contrast to his". If conservatives really voted their values then according to your assessment of Obama being such a liberal conservatives should have never voted for Obama. The wouldn't have to had voted for the Republicans either as there were other candidates they could have voted for. Even if you tried arguing they voted for Obama to send a message to the Republicans that wouldn't explain his current approval numbers. Of coarse that argument would mean conservatives vote out of spite rather than their values.

Face it from the poll you love and Obama's approval numbers he is popular with those conservatives (probably the somewhat conservatives albiet) even though the is spending government money like crazy. So either Obama is not as liberal as you'd like to think or these conservatives are not as conservative as you'd hope.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

...And Obama has kept that ball rolling in spades
...And the Supreme and Federal Courts legislate from the bench
...And Congress buries all kinds of unknown shit deep into unrelated bills that no one reads.....

Point is, it's every branch of gov in BOTH parties...

We need to PURGE the government and put in people whose will be accountable to the intent of the Constitution and the voters.

Purge the government how? Like with violence? People rising up and taking shit into their own hands? That will cause far more problems than it could ever hope to solve.

Did you mean by peaceful means? Who's going to be in charge of that purging? Do we form a committee of politicians to oversee this purge? Who's going to enforce it?

This idea of a purge is as naive as the hippies in the 60's thinking they could end war.

The best we could hope for is that in 4 or 8 years, people become as fed up with the dems as they are with GOP now, then maybe third party candidates will become viable. I actually think that by driving people away from the GOP, the Bush admin might have actually accomplished something wonderful, albeit, unintentionally, it is the first step towards much needed change in this country. I have this fear that even if the dems drive people away from them, people are so stupid and unimaginative, that they'll just go right back to the GOP, regardless of whether or not they have changed at all.

If third party platforms become viable, then we might be able to bring power back to the states and restore the fedgov to its original role. A struggling economy = a weakened fedgov, so states have a chance.

I have hope that we may see some real change for the better in this country. Things have certainly stagnated for long enough that change is coming, this will not be the same America in ten years, its just whether we change for the better and land on our feet or become a police state with a stagnant economy.

I am reading this book called "Gangs of New York" (the same as the movie)
The Draft Riots of 1863 were pretty crazy. Goes to show how pissed off people can get.

Originally Posted by Grange

So either Obama is not as liberal as you'd like to think or these conservatives are not as conservative as you'd hope.

Or, there is a third possibility.

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that everyone in America knows everything that Obama is doing and understands what it means in the context of the country and their professed values. I don't think that is an assumption you can make.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Or, there is a third possibility.

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that everyone in America knows everything that Obama is doing and understands what it means in the context of the country and their professed values. I don't think that is an assumption you can make.

So the conservatives who support Obama are dumb? Of coarse not everyone who supports Obama understands everything he is doing, but many do. You just can't handle that some of the conservatives that support Obama do know what he is doing and what it means to their values.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Purge the government how? Like with violence? People rising up and taking shit into their own hands? That will cause far more problems than it could ever hope to solve.

Did you mean by peaceful means? Who's going to be in charge of that purging? Do we form a committee of politicians to oversee this purge? Who's going to enforce it?

This idea of a purge is as naive as the hippies in the 60's thinking they could end war.

The best we could hope for is that in 4 or 8 years, people become as fed up with the dems as they are with GOP now, then maybe third party candidates will become viable. I actually think that by driving people away from the GOP, the Bush admin might have actually accomplished something wonderful, albeit, unintentionally, it is the first step towards much needed change in this country. I have this fear that even if the dems drive people away from them, people are so stupid and unimaginative, that they'll just go right back to the GOP, regardless of whether or not they have changed at all.

If third party platforms become viable, then we might be able to bring power back to the states and restore the fedgov to its original role. A struggling economy = a weakened fedgov, so states have a chance.

I have hope that we may see some real change for the better in this country. Things have certainly stagnated for long enough that change is coming, this will not be the same America in ten years, its just whether we change for the better and land on our feet or become a police state with a stagnant economy.

Purge the way you discribe it is what I had in mind. Ballot box revolution. Third party would be the best but maybe not realistic.

Could a leader rise within an existing party that could rise above the status quo and literally change the entire party?

That would be my hope. A Libertarian movement within the Republican Party would have the best chance of getting something done.

Problem with 3rd party is that you have to not just win a Presidential Election. You have to have majority support in the Gov to govern, and that's a lot of 3rd party winners.

Like Jessie Ventura in Minnesota. He won but after awhile, both parties gave him hell. (Of course he was a nut job which didn't help but the point is, one guy can't change the system alone)

Originally Posted by Grange

So the conservatives who support Obama are dumb?

No, just busy living their lives. Our system of government has historically been stable enough that people have become accustom to being able pay scant attention to the day to day actions of our politicians and still live a comfortable life.

Obama is far different from any other president in our life times. It's going to take a while for the American people to realize just how far left he is.

You just can't handle that some of the conservatives that support Obama do know what he is doing and what it means to their values.

You are wrong. But if that is what you choose to believe there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Purge the way you discribe it is what I had in mind. Ballot box revolution. Third party would be the best but maybe not realistic.

Could a leader rise within an existing party that could rise above the status quo and literally change the entire party? In a word, no. At least I don't think so.

That would be my hope. A Libertarian movement within the Republican Party would have the best chance of getting something done.

Problem with 3rd party is that you have to not just win a Presidential Election. You have to have majority support in the Gov to govern, and that's a lot of 3rd party winners.

Like Jessie Ventura in Minnesota. He won but after awhile, both parties gave him hell. (Of course he was a nut job which didn't help but the point is, one guy can't change the system alone)

Well ideally, a third party becoming viable wouldn't just be a shift to a new two party system, it would open things up for a fourth and fifth party, and a more open minded way of doing things.

Things would be a lot more chaotic, for a while at least, and it would be harder to get shit done, but imagine if there were several different parties running this country. Once shit got sorted out a little, instead of two parties constantly trying to undermine each others every move just because the other guys are "the enemy" everyone would have more choices than just "fight the enemy, whatever they say, say the opposite".

Originally Posted by Rubicon

No, just busy living their lives. Our system of government has historically been stable enough that people have become accustom to being able pay scant attention to the day to day actions of our politicians and still live a comfortable life.

Obama is far different from any other president in our life times. It's going to take a while for the American people to realize just how far left he is.

You really should open your eyes. A lot of people are paying attention. Their day to day lives are not comfortable and they approve of what Obama's doing. Now they may not be paying attention to the republican spin.

You are wrong. But if that is what you choose to believe there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

You said the majority of people are conservative and the majority of people approve of Obama. Now If Obama's numbers drop dramatically or he loses to a conservative then you could convince me of what your desperately trying to believe has merit. But until then face reality there is no revolt against him and they aren't as you said "regretting their vote for Obama".

What is left and what is right? What is liberal and what is conservative? I know we had a good thread where you can answer a few questions and end up in a quadrant with Hitler or Gandi, but what does that mean for 'Mericans???

All you Euros, just stay out of this thread, we're trying to work things out ;-)

Canadiens and Mexicans welcome. I'm the new moderator Jer.

Dear Conservatives,

Quit bitching and form your own party. I'm sick of you fucktards dragging the Republican party down with you.

Abe & TR are rolling in their graves.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Well ideally, a third party becoming viable wouldn't just be a shift to a new two party system, it would open things up for a fourth and fifth party, and a more open minded way of doing things.

Things would be a lot more chaotic, for a while at least, and it would be harder to get shit done, but imagine if there were several different parties running this country. Once shit got sorted out a little, instead of two parties constantly trying to undermine each others every move just because the other guys are "the enemy" everyone would have more choices than just "fight the enemy, whatever they say, say the opposite".

That would be nice but I'm sceptical of a 3rd or 4th or 5th party succeeding. To win in our system you need a majority vote, and I can't really imagine more than 2 parties consistently winning majorities.

People are "joiners" but base their individual vote on very few issues. They join the place that represents thier issue(s). There are not enough issues to support multiple parties. One of the 2 parties right now has something for 90%of the people. How can the rest fit in with enough support? Especially since so many people seem to be more that happy to cast a "lesser of 2 evils" vote.

I think the only REALISTIC chance for immediate change is for a Libertarian movement to rise within the Republican party. That CAN happen.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Obama is far different from any other president in our life times. It's going to take a while for the American people to realize just how far left he is.

He's been in office a little over 4 months and you've already made that conclusion? Ooooooooooooooooooooooookey dokey.

Sound logic there.

Originally Posted by 13

He's been in office a little over 4 months and you've already made that conclusion? Ooooooooooooooooooooooookey dokey.

Sound logic there.

Very sound...are you blind? Obama is doing so much, so fast that most people don't even notice. This isn't business as usual in DC.

Anyone out there motivated to list the huge and radical things Obama has done or proposed so far?

Originally Posted by 13

He's been in office a little over 4 months and you've already made that conclusion? Ooooooooooooooooooooooookey dokey.

Sound logic there.

Debating with conservative republicans is like arguing with a stone wall. Your intelligent observations and plain facts have NO EFFECT on them whatsoever!
They only understand classism, racism, war, and fear mongering. (oh yeah, and not wanting to pay ANY taxes at all)

Why bother? It just stirs them up and makes them act more and more loony! Just look at them nowadays. (Malkin, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Beck, etc...) I watch FOX "news" now sometimes just for the entertainment factor. I can only last a few minutes before either slapping myself in the forehead (doh!) or busting up laughing! They all seem to have that scary "wing-nut glazed-over look" in their eyes. Ever notice?

Gay marriage will ruin the world but pissing off the entire rest of the world is patriotic?

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Very sound...are you blind? Obama is doing so much, so fast that most people don't even notice. This isn't business as usual in DC.

Anyone out there motivated to list the huge and radical things Obama has done or proposed so far?

I'll start....

#1 Used our tax $$ to purchase 2 car companies for the UAW

#2 Blackmailed California into keeping their union contracts 100% intact despite the states impendeing financial colapse.

Originally Posted by 13

He's been in office a little over 4 months and you've already made that conclusion? Ooooooooooooooooooooooookey dokey.

Sound logic there.

Yep, sounds like RubeLogic.
He "reserved judgement" on sarah Palin to the end, when it was blatantly obvious to most that she was a nutjob, but he passed judgement on Obama long before he took office.
Typical. But that sorta ideologically-based blindness will keep the repub party in the minority, so it's fine by me.

Originally Posted by natty dread

Yep, sounds like RubeLogic.
He "reserved judgement" on sarah Palin to the end, when it was blatantly obvious to most that she was a nutjob, but he passed judgement on Obama long before he took office.
Typical. But that sorta ideologically-based blindness will keep the repub party in the minority, so it's fine by me.

Sarah Palin has a clear track record in Alaska. None of it falls into the "Nutjob" category. Yet, based on nothing but your dislike for her possitions and dumb sounding accent, you just KNOW she's a nutjob.

Obama had NO track record except one of being the farthest left voting Senator in the US Senate. He's far more "Extreem" on the political spectrum that anyone who ran for Prez or Vice. Palin crossed the isle in Alaska. Obama NEVER did.

It isn't hard to pass judgment before an election, your vote IS your passed judgment.

Obama has done nothing to change the view that we had of him before the election. He's step by step working the Saul Alinsky play book from "Rules for Radicals". How can anyone NOT pass judgement after 100 days.

Rubi has an ideology but it's FAR from BLIND.

AND the reason you give for the Repubs being in the minority is wrong. When they field a true conservative who can articulate the message, they will be back in power.

Fixed it for ya.

Originally Posted by steepconcrete

Dear misguided liberal person-

No one will take your bitching seriously unless you are able to present facts, logic and alternate plans. Scare tactics, hate mongering and misinformation does nothing but make you all look like a big bunch of idiots. what blows my mind is how its spreading like a sickness thru all liberals.

Do you even care that the democratic party is becoming a joke and once-beloved Obama has become a hated laughingstock overseas?

yes i know we conservatives bitched for 8 years about how we needed to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddic Mac and presented facts, logic and alternate plans about what would happen if we stayed on the current course, but the democrats said "the housing market is perfectly fine, stay out of it" and look what happened: we were right. (Look it up somewhere unbiased, and not on one of the liberal propaganda sites. Incidentally McCain was one of the first to sound the alarm.)

can you fucktards (hello Barney Frank and Maxine Waters) even admiit that your people totally fucked this country??

no one in the world respects any of you, and that wont change unless you do.

so please seek help, im tired of you giving our country a bad name.

Of course, the thing most people miss is that the current Republican Party is more liberal than the Democratic Party was just a few decades ago. Other than the abortion issue, they're both so far left it's laughable. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.

I'd prefer just enough government to keep us from toppling into anarchy, no more, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs

(Malkin, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Beck, etc...) I watch FOX "news" now sometimes just for the entertainment factor.

Bullshit. You Tvo The O'Rielly Factor every day just like the rest of the obsessed libdouches here.

Originally Posted by natty dread

ideologically-based blindness

Damn, that's some grade-A irony there!

Originally Posted by 1000-oaks

Fixed it for ya.

I already fixed it for him a few pages ago.

For some reason dogs pooping always brings a smile to my face.


Everytime I'm driving around and I see a dog pooping, I always encourage him by yelling "Good job, boy!! Goooood Job!!!".

Originally Posted by 1000-oaks

Of course, the thing most people miss is that the current Republican Party is more liberal than the Democratic Party was just a few decades ago. Other than the abortion issue, they're both so far left it's laughable. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.

I'd prefer just enough government to keep us from toppling into anarchy, no more, thank you very much.

Solid point 100% Right On ^^^ Solid Avitar too^^^