Are DH brakes worth it?

[Particle]

I'm really tempted to pick up some Codes or Saints (4-piston) before race season really gets underway for me. I'm just not sure if it's worth dropping 3 bills+ on. My hope is it'd reduce hand fatigue and overall improve my times via easier/more powerful braking. But, I've done pretty well with Juicy 7's and XT's in the past.

So what say ye? Codes worth the investment?

[kidwoo]

Not really.

Most of the "DH" brakes I've ridden impress me in the parking lot but never really translated to something I notice while riding.
If I weighed 300lbs maybe.....then again maybe not.

[Conundrum]

Santa Cruz clearance used to have Codes for cheap...like around $200/set for everything.

I have Codes on my Demo and 7s on my Enduro. I really like both. It's hard to say how much of a difference there is because they are on different bikes for different riding. I think the Codes work really well though.

Edit: After reading what Z said, I agree. I've never had to use two fingers on my Codes. Wow-that sounds wrong and right on a lot of levels.

[shmoesmith]

I've noticed a difference between my codes and my hayes 9's. I like the codes better. I get less hand cramping with them...that said, its not like a night and day difference, just a bit more comfortable.

[tigerstripe40]

Juicy 5s w/ 203mm rotors seem to be plenty of brake for me during races. I am pretty sure that I weigh more than you do, but I can lock up either wheel pretty easily with light finger pressure on the lever. If my brakes were in need of replacement I'd consider the DH brake route.
But on the other hand, if it isn't broken why fix it?

[Z]

Codes are definitely stronger than Juicy 7s. Not a ton, but it kinda seems like the difference between NEVER using 2 fingers on your brakes. With Juicys I would slip another finger on their sometimes. Just to see how it feels.

[funkendrenchman]

Codes are definitely stronger than Juicy 7s. Not a ton, but it kinda seems like the difference between NEVER using 2 fingers on your brakes. With Juicys I would slip another finger on their sometimes. Just to see how it feels.

If your Juicys stop working, buy some Codes. Otherwise, it isn't worth ditching the Juicys.

[ridevt]

I ran Juicy 7's for the 07 season and went to the code 5's last season. Slightly better modulation, def more power but where I really noticed them was on long extended descents. I think my old 7's had a tendency to heat up and I have only experienced fade on the longest of DH runs (Whistler Gondi all the way to bottom) with my codes. Overall, a definite improvement but not huge by any means.

[Dromond]

If your Juicys stop working, buy some Codes. Otherwise, it isn't worth ditching the Juicys.

So under this logic I should buy codes. I bought Juicy 5s for the DH bike in Fall of 06 (I think) and the damned things have never worked properly, even after careful bleeding. It seems stupid to ditch brakes with maybe 10-15 days of DH riding on them I don't ride the big bike as much these days but a main reason for that is that the brakes suck.

[kidwoo]

I ran Juicy 7's for the 07 season and went to the code 5's last season. Slightly better modulation, def more power but where I really noticed them was on long extended descents. I think my old 7's had a tendency to heat up and I have only experienced fade on the longest of DH runs (Whistler Gondi all the way to bottom) with my codes. Overall, a definite improvement but not huge by any means.

This is about the only benefit I can see...heat dispersion.


But, I've never in my life glazed a pad and I'm not someone that drags their brakes on butt dragging, steep as shit fall line trails all day long either.

I don't see it being an issue in ohio

[Mani_UT]

My hope is it'd reduce hand fatigue and overall improve my times via easier/more powerful braking. But, I've done pretty well with Juicy 7's and XT's in the past.

Juicy's 7 are plenty good for DH. You should trying tweaking the lever position/reach some before you spend any money. Usually that's were it all starts.

[JakeCast]

I'm running the new saints (Shimano replaced my last years that I bought off of Chainlove when the front caliper stopped working)-

The biggest thing I've noticed is how good the modulation is vs. some of the lower end brakes I've used. They have a huge range of braking power you can apply which is handy for a lot of types of riding.

[kidwoo]

The biggest thing I've noticed is how good the modulation is vs. some of the lower end brakes I've used. They have a huge range of braking power you can apply which is handy for a lot of types of riding.

But that's every current shimano brake vs an older model.

Most of the people in here except for Z are comparing new 'dh' marketed brakes to older systems. Hayes 9????? Come on. Every modern hydro works better than those.

What you have to realize is that every company finds a system that works, and then for the most part uses it across the board. There's no more power or functional difference in a juicy 7 than a juicy 3. The more expensive brake is just better (lighter and maybe more durable) materials. Where something like a code or a new saint comes it, the biggest change is just the size of the caliper and maybe an extra piston. Anyone who's ridden those nutty 500 piston hopes knows that more pistons doesn't mean more power. Same thing between the original two pot shimanos vs the one pots that came out not too long ago. The new ones were just as good or better. With the dh marketed versions you get a bigger system that MAYBE dumps heat better. All that extra fluid volume and caliper mass may also HOLD heat better however.

I've ridden codes a few times. On the trail I honestly notice no difference in performance from any of the juicys. I've also ridden new saints and new xts and couldn't tell a difference. At least for me the big bad tough looking 'dh' brakes aren't worth making my bike heavier.

[pechelman]

until someone actually designs a DH LEVER, there isnt *that* huge of a difference, or really any at all

its all about piston area behind the pads vs piston area on the lever
if want more power, youve gotta increase the area on the master cylinder piston and update the brake lever leverage ratio

[Conundrum]

Anyone who's ridden those nutty 500 piston hopes knows that more pistons doesn't mean more power.

I had those Hopes and actually like the Codes better.

[pechelman]

add more pistons and more piston area at the caliper and use the same lever = more modulation and less force at the pad

ie 500 Piston Hopes

[JakeCast]

But that's every current shimano brake vs an older model.

Most of the people in here except for Z are comparing new 'dh' marketed brakes to older systems. Hayes 9????? Come on. Every modern hydro works better than those.

What you have to realize is that every company finds a system that works, and then for the most part uses it across the board. There's no more power or functional difference in a juicy 7 than a juicy 3. The more expensive brake is just better (lighter and maybe more durable) materials. Where something like a code or a new saint comes it, the biggest change is just the size of the caliper and maybe an extra piston. Anyone who's ridden those nutty 500 piston hopes knows that more pistons doesn't mean more power. Same thing between the original two pot shimanos vs the one pots that came out not too long ago. The new ones were just as good or better. With the dh marketed versions you get a bigger system that MAYBE dumps heat better. All that extra fluid volume and caliper mass may also HOLD heat better however.

I've ridden codes a few times. On the trail I honestly notice no difference in performance from any of the juicys. I've also ridden new saints and new xts and couldn't tell a difference. At least for me the big bad tough looking 'dh' brakes aren't worth making my bike heavier.

Ya, I've only used 3 different hyd. brakes so I don't consider myself an expert by any means.

I've used Juicy 3's from a couple years ago, last year's Saints and this year's Saints.

I.M.O. This year's Saints have better modulation than last year's and the Juicy 3's. That being said there are no organic pads for the new Saints if that is important to you-

[kidwoo]

I.M.O. This year's Saints have better modulation than last year's and the Juicy 3's. That being said there are no organic pads for the new Saints if that is important to you-

The xts are like that too though. It's the servo whatsamajig. That's the lever/master cylinder design that's not specific to the saints...which is kind of my point. Calling something a dh brake doesn't change the function when it's exactly the same as their other stuff.....just meaner looking

Fuck those organic pads. Riding those things in the rain at whistler on joy ride gave a few light at the end of the tunnel moments.

[Z]

Codes are definitely more powerful than Juicy 7s. I don't think that's really a question. I think some people don't need or even want the power of codes especially if you are a smooth mofo. That said, I want the strongest brakes made for my DH bike. Sure can't hurt as you just become used to the power, just need to know your specific brakes...

Also. Might have some used white code 7s for sale if anyone wants em.

[JakeCast]

If weight is super important you could look at these:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/sea-ott...akes-2009.html

Warning: The video on pinkbike is basically 4.5 minute Formula Brake ad-

[funkendrenchman]

New levers will help a little with hand fatigue (ie. Straitline).

[kidwoo]

Hey Z.


Who bled your juicys?

[LeeLau]

I routinely do 5,000 ft descents but I am pinner @ 160lbs. Magura Louises, Avid Juicy 5s and 7s were the best in that situation. Hayes Stroker Trails lacked a bit of power and started to fade a bit in those situations. I never realized how bad the old Hayes were in those situations till I hopped onto new brakes. I have some Avid Elixir CR's on a test bike and have high hopes for them too.

EDIT: I actually found Magura Gustavs and Avid Codes to be almost too much power. In a bizarre way, they almost lacked modulation given their raw stick in the spokes power - but then I'm not 250 pounds plus

[Particle]

Wow, the collective suggesting I save money and NOT buy new fancy parts? This thread should be preserved for posterity

I really had no issues whatsoever last year with my XTs, love those brakes. The only time they were bad was when my fork puked fork oil all over the front brake pads. Heh.

funken - great idea on the straitlines. I have a set on my Vagrant that I LOVE, would be a really nice upgrade for the Demo J7's. Word. Done deal.

[BushwackerinPA]

who ever mentioned Hayes 9....

those might be the worst brakes I have ever used, they are so bad I feel like I dont want to sell them on here.

BB7 are better than Hayes 9.

to the original topic I just got some Exlizers on my trail bike and they rock, best brakes I have yet to use so far.