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  1. #1
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    Heaviest Ski You've Mounted with Dukes (and AT advice in general)?

    about me:
    6', 165lbs., 23 y/o, have skied exclusively alpine for 18 years, consider myself to be an "expert" to most (but definitely nothing special on here). i prefer stable, damp skis and long, powerful, driven turns in general. however, i also consider myself to be a very "well-rounded" skier, doing a bit of EVERYTHING, such as cranking out gs and slalom turns on groomers, bangin tight bumps, chutes and trees, ripping big open bowls and steeps, hucking medium-sized (10-25') cliffs, and even some park (but much less than in the past, due to injuries). so i always like my skis to be pretty versatile within their own specific category (i believe in quivers with a wide breadth for different conditions, but i feel that my skis should always be decently competent at any conditions i could reasonably encounter during the day).

    current quiver:
    - 192 salomon rockers w/ rossi scatch 140ti's --> deep days
    - 187 dynastar xxl's w/ look px15's --> charging, steeps, and crud-busting
    - 179 k2 pe's w/ rossi scratch 140ti's --> bumps and park
    - 178 dynastar contact 4x4's --> groomers and firm days

    the scenerio
    i'm finally thinking about getting into AT just for slackcountry purposes. i currently live in los angeles, so i do not feel that it would be practical/wise to try to get into the real backcountry or serious touring (and i wouldn't even have someone to go with me...). however, i DO travel quite a bit, and in the last 3 years i've gotten to crested butte (1x), fernie (1x), Kirkwood (1x), SLC (4x), and mammoth (9x), in addition to day trips to the local los angeles mountains. if you've noticed a trend in the resorts that i choose to ride, they all have GREAT lift-served freeriding, but they would all have a LOT more potential with a short (20-30 minute) skin here and there. so, basically, i just want to get a set-up for those short treks to the goods off the tops of lifts. i also foresee myself getting to more remote places in the future (like las lenas and chamonix), where i would really benefit if i could tour for at least an hour or two. in the future, once i'm out of dental school, i could see myself getting into longer tours, and would like a set-up that would allow me to expand into that

    what i am asking YOU (if you read NOTHING else, then read THIS):
    like the title says: what is the heaviest ski that YOU have mounted with dukes? how long are you REASONABLY able to tour on this set-up? what kind of shape are you in? i currently have a set of unmounted 187 xxl's (my FAVORITE ski of all time), which i originally purchased just as back-ups for the set that i am currently riding. so i was just thinking of mounting those up with dukes, which i know will be heavy as all fuck. am i way out of line here? is this too heavy for my stated purposes (which, if you didn't read the other sections, is just a handful of 20-30 minute slackcountry tours, right now, to get to the goods during my day at the resort... and maybe a couple hours of skinning if i get out of the country or decide to get more into AT in the future). i am in DECENT shape, and i could certainly train to get in better shape if i had to (i used to be a distance runner). AT is my next frontier, but i have no idea at this point what i'm getting myself in to. just speculations and conjectures. so will the collective please set my expectations straight?


    side question:
    i'm gonna start off with just the basics for AT gear:
    - pack (dakine heli pro 16L)
    - probe (BD 230 quickdraw carbon fiber probe)
    - shovel (BD transfer 3)
    - transceiver (BCA tracker dts)
    - AT bindings (marker dukes)
    - skins (BD ascension sts)
    - level 1 avi-cert (just for starters)

    is there any other equipment (snow survey tools, skin and binding maintenance, spare parts, etc.) that you think i would REALLY benefit from for my limited purposes? or is there any FAR superior gear (at a similar cost) to those specific brands/models that i have listed?

    -kevin
    Last edited by lukc; 05-02-2009 at 06:35 PM.

  2. #2
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    Side question advice: Your level 1 avi-cert will be a great resource in answering all of your bc gear related questions. If you take it from someone who is a guide or the likes ask them to see their personal pack and what they take with them. You'll get some great ideas as far as first aid items and repair items. I would hold off on the more technical snow science gear for now.
    Last edited by snapt; 05-02-2009 at 06:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    for 20-30 minutes, it really doesn't matter the weight. just pick the ski you'd want to be shredding.

    i used to tour on 190 powder plusses w/ 920s and trekkers - the skis were WAY heavier than an xxl. in retrospect, that was a very stupid thing to do, especially as i used them for full 8-10 hr BC days, and it kicked my ass beyond belief. but they were what i wanted to be on for the way down.

    but really, if you even at one point used to be a distance runner, a 30 minute skin is no big deal. especially if you already HAVE the skis sitting there. sorta sounds like a no brainer. the duke xxl will not keep you held back unless you are thinking about some for of fast/ligh peak bagging excursions, or wind up touring with folks on sissy-sticks.

    side question: beacon, shovel, probe, brain. decent pack. decent ski/bindings/skins. you are set. though i would really suggest a 3m probe. there still is a reasonable rescue chance for some burried 7-10 feet, and if you only have a 2.3m (7ft) probe, you ain't finding them and they are dying a terrible death. or i guess you could save a little weight.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  4. #4
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    Save your money and just pick up some trekkers for now. that way you could have some versatility with what skis you tour with. XXL skins will work on the rockers..

    Just dont forget to bring a straw.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rip View Post
    Save your money and just pick up some trekkers for now. that way you could have some versatility with what skis you tour with. XXL skins will work on the rockers..

    Just dont forget to bring a straw.
    hmmm... i thought about this, but the VAST majority of the costs are in the safety gear. trekkers vs. dukes is not much more than $100 difference, so i just figured i'd do it the right way. good point on being able to use the rockers too, though... DIDN'T think of THAT.

    EDIT: on the skins, i size them to the WAIST width when buying, right (so 110mm skins for the xxl's)? do i NECESSARILY need to trim? from my understanding you just take off a little extra around the sides to expose the edges, but cover as much base as possible? if i trimmed for the xxl and then threw them on the rockers, would they just be narrower than ideal, but i just try to center them? how often do you need to service your skins if you take care of them properly and what else do you need to do than just dry them off? do you keep them folded when not in use?
    Last edited by lukc; 05-02-2009 at 10:01 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    for 20-30 minutes, it really doesn't matter the weight. just pick the ski you'd want to be shredding.
    yeah, i figured as much. i guess i'm not so much worried about the set-up being too heavy starting off. i just wanted the possibility of expanding my tours out to several hours, because i do have some visions of grandeur for the future after i'm out of school and can gets lots of time off to travel (as proximity to the major mountains and a touring companion are my limiting factors for AT right now).

  7. #7
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    just an update, but i went ahead and pulled the trigger on the bindings, pack, transceiver, shovel, and, as per marshal's wisdom, a 3m probe. still a bit unsure about skins, though...

  8. #8
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    I'll post the opposite question, I've been touring for the last 15 years here on the other side of the pond, where all we think about is low weight, 'till couple of years ago when I started skiing mid fats with Dukes, great set up, but way too heavy. Now, I don't want to give up on the size of the ski, just ordered the Coomback, but I'm thinking to mount them Dynafit Verticals. Any of you tried them on mid Fat skis??? I'm 6' by 210 pounds.

  9. #9
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    Re: Skins - lots of sizes will work, I find it easiest to get one size down from your tail dimension. i.e - tail width of 127 = get the 120mm skins. Your traction is from the back of the ski not the front, so a little extra exposed ski on the tip is not a big deal at all, and saves a few bucks. You will still have to trim a little bit, but its retardedly easy to do..

    I started touring on some dukes mounted to some lib techs. A pretty heavy set up. Although when you don't know any better, it doesn't seem that bad...Until you skin for more than 2 hrs... As Marshal said above, its totally doable, just not as enjoyable.

    This year I switched to 181 coombas with dynafits, and the change is incredible. No more dread of long uphills, and you can annoy the shit out of friends still on heavy set ups when they come chugging and sweating up behind you. They are a bit wimpier of a ski, and now I get my meadow-skip on a bit more on the downhill than before, but the weight tradeoff is so worth it. However, on the other end of the spectrum, a few weekends ago I was out in tahoe and we were doing donner pass laps. One day I took up my 195 motherships mounted with p18s and trekkers(there may not be a heavier setup possible!). I was prepared for complete and utter suckage, but actually it wasn't too bad. If it was my first tour of the season I would have most likely died, but after a season of skiing, it really didnt bother me, I was definitely slower than with dynafits, but did not get crushed. and the ride down was much more fun.

    Its been said before on this board a bunch of times. If you want to tour, get dynafits. If you want to tour sometimes and avoid the suckage of trekkers, get dukes. If you are a broke POS...get trekkers.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukc View Post
    side question:
    i'm gonna start off with just the basics for AT gear:
    - pack (dakine heli pro 16L)
    - probe (BD 230 quickdraw carbon fiber probe)
    - shovel (BD transfer 3)
    - transceiver (BCA tracker dts)
    - AT bindings (marker dukes)
    - skins (BD ascension sts)
    - level 1 avi-cert (just for starters)
    FIRST AID KIT.
    The number of people that go into the sidecountry or backcountry without one continually boggles my mind.
    How do you plan to treat your partner's broken leg and various lacerations after a bad tumble?
    How do you plan to treat trauma after you successfully dig your buddy out of an avalanche?
    Relatively minor injuries can quickly turn life threatening if you can't treat them within a short timeframe. And even 3 feet on the other side of the boundary, a rescue may be hours away because ski patrol has no responsibility to help you, and assembling a SAR team takes time.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukc View Post
    [COLOR="red"]what i am asking YOU (if you read NOTHING else, then read THIS):
    like the title says: what is the heaviest ski that YOU have mounted with dukes? how long are you REASONABLY able to tour on this set-up? what kind of shape are you in?
    190 Explosivs (the lightweight -heh- setup)
    182 Czars (surprisingly heavy for their size)

    Both get used only for day trips, as I haven't done any longer BC trips. Yes, they're heavy. But the Duke skis like an alpine binding for the downhill.

    I'm going to put Dynafits on some Sanouks -- since they're only a pure-powder ski anyway, should hold up OK for inbounds pow days. I also bought some 190 Lotus 120s from the clearance sale a little while ago, with the idea of putting Dynafits on those too. If I do that, I'll probably sell the Czars in the fall.

    After fiddling with the Dynafits on the workbench, I think those things are brilliant. I hope I don't break them.

  12. #12
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    Skins for XXLs = 120mm, IMO. 130s would work too, but you don't really need them. Save the extra $10.

    And in addition to your listed gear, and the first aid kit, one word: GLOPSTOPPER
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  13. #13
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    My dukes are on my Salomon Rockers. I've been on short day tours with them and never had an issue, probably 3-4 hours of skinning. If they could be lighter it would be nice but not to sacrifice the performance.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    FIRST AID KIT.
    The number of people that go into the sidecountry or backcountry without one continually boggles my mind.
    How do you plan to treat your partner's broken leg and various lacerations after a bad tumble?
    How do you plan to treat trauma after you successfully dig your buddy out of an avalanche?
    Relatively minor injuries can quickly turn life threatening if you can't treat them within a short timeframe. And even 3 feet on the other side of the boundary, a rescue may be hours away because ski patrol has no responsibility to help you, and assembling a SAR team takes time.
    i hear ya. but what items should i make sure to include? bandages/gauze, antiseptics, pain killers... what else?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUTSKI View Post
    And in addition to your listed gear, and the first aid kit, one word: GLOPSTOPPER
    how often do you apply this? what about regluing?

  16. #16
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    motherships with dukes here. woah, they're heavy, but i'm only a day tourer, and its sooo worth it going down.


    second first aid kit. never been injured out on a trip, but it has all sorts of little things that I use a ton, duck tape, safety pins, etcetera.
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  17. #17
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    CPR mask and gloves.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

    The Bonin Petrels

  18. #18
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    just added a first-aid kit, a knife, and a emergency blanket (cause it just looked so COOL) to the pack!

    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post
    CPR mask and gloves.
    shouldn't be a problem to get a hold of . i go to school in what used to be the UCLA hospital (up until this last summer, when the new one opened up across the street...). and i have BOXES of gloves. i'll easily be going through 20-30 pairs of gloves a day for the rest of my career.

  19. #19
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    I know Dukes are great performers,I have them myself, but has anybody tried both the Dukes and the Dynafits??? Is there so much difference???

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vendul View Post
    I know Dukes are great performers,I have them myself, but has anybody tried both the Dukes and the Dynafits??? Is there so much difference???
    aside from the fact that the weights are clearly listed for both? one is an alpine binding that can tour and the other is a touring binding that you kinda ski on...

  21. #21
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    That's fine, but have you skied on both??? or know anyone who does??? that can actually state that??? I do ski with people that mounts dynafit and they say they are the best... but never skied anything else, and they go anywhere...

  22. #22
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    I have dukes on BH Shoots, possibly the world's heaviest AT setup. I've never done multiday hut trips with them, but I keep up fine on long day trips with tele/dynafit guys. I'm in pretty good shape and would much rather deal with it and have a good ski down on a bomber setup then have a light hike and pissed I didn't have skis on wanted on.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukc View Post
    how often do you apply this? what about regluing?
    Trust me, when you need to re-apply the globstopper, it will be painfully obvious. Just carry it in your pack always, and when snow starts to stick to the skins every step, knock it all off and throw a whole bunch of it on there, always rubbing with the grain, not against it.

    keep the glue clean and they'll last at least a couple seasons for sure. I had a pair of G3's that lasted 5 seasons before I needed to reglue them.


    And I have 194 XXL's with dukes. It works great, Im sure the 187's will be of no issue.

  24. #24
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    I have Dynafits on my Lotus 120's. I've only been out 3 days, but the first day I popped out of both of them on an aggressive jump turn. I cranked up the din to 9 and so far so good. Good thing I had leashes or it would've been a very long day. I have Dukes on Praxis Pow's. They're as solid as they get. I went to the Selkirks this winter with a buddy and we did 35,000 feet in 6 days - he had Dukes on his Coombas.

    I would also carry a basic tool kit, duct tape, Voile straps, GPS. For long tours I tele, and carry extra bindings.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Toad View Post
    I have Dynafits on my Lotus 120's. I've only been out 3 days, but the first day I popped out of both of them on an aggressive jump turn. I cranked up the din to 9 and so far so good. Good thing I had leashes or it would've been a very long day. I have Dukes on Praxis Pow's. They're as solid as they get. I went to the Selkirks this winter with a buddy and we did 35,000 feet in 6 days - he had Dukes on his Coombas.

    I would also carry a basic tool kit, duct tape, Voile straps, GPS. For long tours I tele, and carry extra bindings.
    Make sure the rear heel piece is set right with the feeler gauge. I pre-released a lot on my dynafits initially, then I checked the feeler gauge to find there was a hair too much space b/w the boot and heel piece. I turned like a half to full turn of the screw and no more pre release ever - no need to turn the din up.

    My impression on dynafit is they hold up just fine to everyday resort and bc skiing (ft12's). It's pretty much all I skied this winter and I got 40 days, maybe half inbounds with no problems. I've heard of one broken heel piece on an ft12 so far.
    Ride Fast, Live slow.

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