Katana bindings ripping out

**morrisairtime** · 04-04-2009, 06:19 AM

Me. 180lb agro tele skier on 183 Katana '08 with BD 01s (also own a pair of Mantras with 01s). 2 * in deep snow in the past week I have ripped bindings out of the Katanas. BD is covering the bindings under warranty, but Volkl says no, that the ski isn't tele specifc and they won't cover them. Seems wrong. Anyone else having issues?

**morrisairtime** · 04-04-2009, 07:10 AM

Seems funny that BD is covering the bindings when it really is not a binding problem. Did a heliocoil to repair the first tear and it ripped out again, buckling and tearing between the holes, this time rendering the ski unusable unless I want to move the mount almost 3cm, which I don't. Am considering going to the Hammerhead 'cause it has a 6 hole mount as opposed to the BD 4. I have owned 4 pairs of Volkls in the past 2 years and love the performance but not the durability (lack) and swear I'll find another brand if they don't make this right

**DropCliffsNotBombs** · 04-04-2009, 10:17 AM

That's of course an alpine designed ski. Your bindings have four (closely spaced) holes, not eight holes (spread out). Big guy+stiff plastic boots+only four binding screws="why did I rip out my tele binders?"

**khyber.pass** · 04-04-2009, 11:19 AM

Volkl alpine skis are not designed for the force of a tele binding. For example, people come into the shop all the time with tele bindings ripped out of K2 Seths, and we have to say: yah, they're not meant for that. That's why K2 sells tele-specific skis with metal reinforced mount plates. As for Volkls, most do not have reinforced wood or metal underfoot to hold tele bindings. Some tele skiers get away with it, but if you are aggressive or heavy, you will rip out the binding.

**trainnvain** · 04-04-2009, 11:50 AM

Drill right through, countersink a flat t-nut, base weld over.
(that is if you have no other option)

**mtnbikerskierchick** · 04-04-2009, 12:00 PM

BD 01's are definitely not compatible with most Volkl skis it seems. Seems to be a known issue as I've heard from some of my tele friends. Seems like a real pain to deal with! Helicoils definitely don't work. There's no one really to blame. The skis aren't meant for a binding like the 01's. And the 01's aren't meant for a Volkl ski.

**morrisairtime** · 04-04-2009, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs

That's of course an alpine designed ski. Your bindings have four (closely spaced) holes, not eight holes (spread out). Big guy+stiff plastic boots+only four binding screws="why did I rip out my tele binders?"

This is all fine and well except for a few things, all of which amount to tough sh-t for me.
a)Shops all over the place (good reputable shops) are happy to take your $1100 to set you up on this and nobody says a word.
b)Shop techs are acknowledging that Volkl is prone to this problem, and Volkl is aware too that their skis are being sold this way and nobody says anything until it happens, then they tell you it isn't covered and never should have been sold in the first place. Too late...
c)I have been mounting tele on alpine skis for years and have never had this problem before.
d) I am told that Volkl will reinforce the under-toe area for next years line. Don't think I'll buy a pair though!
I got 10 days on this $1100 set up and now I am out of luck AND K2 is the only manufacturer out there making a line-up of tele specific skis. Why so if this is an issue?

**FattyCBR** · 04-04-2009, 06:49 PM

Do a search on the nutsert insert for swapping bindings between skis. Someone posted up the part used on snowboards. It's a T-nut with Ptex on the bottom. You drill through the bottom and countersink, then do a base grind. It may take a little work and a little more money, but at least you can keep using your skis.

**morrisairtime** · 04-04-2009, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by FattyCBR

Do a search on the nutsert insert for swapping bindings between skis. Someone posted up the part used on snowboards. It's a T-nut with Ptex on the bottom. You drill through the bottom and countersink, then do a base grind. It may take a little work and a little more money, but at least you can keep using your skis.

Sounds like THE TICKET! I did some Googling though and see Nutserts but none with the P-Tex face on it. Do you have a lead for me? Thanks Much!

**FattyCBR** · 04-05-2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by morrisairtime

Sounds like THE TICKET! I did some Googling though and see Nutserts but none with the P-Tex face on it. Do you have a lead for me? Thanks Much!

It's in here:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ht=ptex+insert

Post:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...0&postcount=90

**Chowda** · 04-05-2009, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by morrisairtime

This is all fine and well except for a few things, all of which amount to tough sh-t for me.
a)Shops all over the place (good reputable shops) are happy to take your $1100 to set you up on this and nobody says a word.
b)Shop techs are acknowledging that Volkl is prone to this problem, and Volkl is aware too that their skis are being sold this way and nobody says anything until it happens, then they tell you it isn't covered and never should have been sold in the first place. Too late...
c)I have been mounting tele on alpine skis for years and have never had this problem before.
d) I am told that Volkl will reinforce the under-toe area for next years line. Don't think I'll buy a pair though!
I got 10 days on this $1100 set up and now I am out of luck AND K2 is the only manufacturer out there making a line-up of tele specific skis. Why so if this is an issue?

Yeah I'd love to see your post after you walked into a shop and they told you they wouldn't sell you that setup because it may fail...

**Smails** · 04-05-2009, 11:00 AM

Sounds like maybe Volkl has a point with the 4 hole tele bindings, but that said, just another instance of Volkl's freeride line sucking in terms of durability. I won't buy them anymore myself and was a huge Volkl fan previously, hell, they used to give me nearly free skis when I raced so I was always loyal to them. Loved the performance too. It's a shame, but I hope it comes back to bite them on the ass eventually for producing such poorly manufactured skis. A company can't hide behind there name forever, soon Volkl will be synonymous for crappy quality and poor customer service, not for being the best.

**XXX-er** · 04-05-2009, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by morrisairtime

Seems funny that BD is covering the bindings when it really is not a binding problem.

you didnt mention which springs you have ?

The people with the ridculously stiff springs are pulling them out cuz the binding is so active,those big springs running under the boot and helping to flex the bellows , pressuring the tips/edges put ALOT of pressure on the rear screws ... the thing that peopel love is what is killing the binding & ski SO IMO it actualy it is a binding problem

my buddy has them on anti-pistes with the inserts ,he rips pretty hard and goes very low ... no problems so far .

a riser wiht more screws would be a good thing for this app and would solve your problem but I know of none that are currently commercialy available and you would be so high off the ski you would be getting nose Bleeds ...maybe a thin aluminium riser with machine screws for the binding

**H-wood** · 04-05-2009, 05:16 PM

People have been riping tele bindings out of skis for 20 years, and a quick search here would reveal that people have especially been ripping BD 01's out of all kinds of skis for the reasons that others mention above.

You don't make it clear whether the shop in question actually sold you the skis and bindings together. If so, it's their responsibility, if not, it's yours. Sure as shit isn't Volkl's.

**morrisairtime** · 04-05-2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by H-wood

People have been riping tele bindings out of skis for 20 years, and a quick search here would reveal that people have especially been ripping BD 01's out of all kinds of skis for the reasons that others mention above.

You don't make it clear whether the shop in question actually sold you the skis and bindings together. If so, it's their responsibility, if not, it's yours. Sure as shit isn't Volkl's.

Mr H-Wood,
Fair enough. People may have been ripping up skis for 20 years but I haven't, and that would seem to define both an engineering challenge and an economic opportunity.
In the interest of full disclosure, they were both bought here in Colorado and yes, the skis came from one shop and the bindings from another (same town), only because the one shop was out of stock on the bindings in the cartridge I wanted. They both sell Volkls and they both sell BD bindings. And fair enough Volkl may not have legal liability here but I have bought four pairs of their skis in the past two years and I believe they knew people were buying that ski for tele. If I am out $900 after 12 days and that'stough shit on me, then I won't buy their skis again. That;s free-market economics, right? The shop where I bought the binding and did the mount sells Volkl. They sell dozens of pairs of Gotoma's with tele setups and told me they have been having lots of "problems" with Gotamas and Mantras and that Volkl is fixing the problem next year. Had anyone told me I should maybe not be mounting that ski with BD's because I had a real chance of ripping the shit out of the ski and wasting $900 I surely would have done otherwise. That's good service, right? And Volkl ought to make sure the people selling their shit know what they are doing, right? Otherwise people lose out and get pissed at them. Seems like good business to me.
Tell me you would feel otherwise?

**H-wood** · 04-05-2009, 08:58 PM

I agree about some shop responsibility, and maybe Black Diamond should be addressing the issue, but I don't think Volkl owes anyone a ski that can handle a big-ish skier charging with four closely-spaced, highly-leveraged screws.

Aggressive tele skiing means you need either a bunch of screws, or an insert/thick metal topsheet, or both. You could ask your shop or BD to comp you a different pair of bindings with more screws and mount them up.

**morrisairtime** · 04-06-2009, 07:51 AM

[QUOTE=XXX-er;2340460]you didnt mention which springs you have ?

The people with the ridculously stiff springs are pulling them out cuz the binding is so active,those big springs running under the boot and helping to flex the bellows , pressuring the tips/edges put ALOT of pressure on the rear screws ... the thing that peopel love is what is killing the binding & ski SO IMO it actualy it is a binding problem

my buddy has them on anti-pistes with the inserts ,he rips pretty hard and goes very low ... no problems so far .

a riser wiht more screws would be a good thing for this app and would solve your problem but I know of none that are currently commercialy available and you would be so high off the ski you would be getting nose Bleeds ...maybe a thin aluminium riser with machine screws for the binding[/QUOTE
I am actaully on the soft ones...free flex as I prefer a less active binding, and what is curious is that I was no hucking or pounding bumps. Both times was on relatively mellow powder days,though deep snow might put alot off stress.

**morrisairtime** · 04-06-2009, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Chowda

Yeah I'd love to see your post after you walked into a shop and they told you they wouldn't sell you that setup because it may fail...

Why would you say that?

**morrisairtime** · 04-06-2009, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Smails

Sounds like maybe Volkl has a point with the 4 hole tele bindings, but that said, just another instance of Volkl's freeride line sucking in terms of durability. I won't buy them anymore myself and was a huge Volkl fan previously, hell, they used to give me nearly free skis when I raced so I was always loyal to them. Loved the performance too. It's a shame, but I hope it comes back to bite them on the ass eventually for producing such poorly manufactured skis. A company can't hide behind there name forever, soon Volkl will be synonymous for crappy quality and poor customer service, not for being the best.

Truthfully I think you are on target. I love the way all of my Volkls ski..Mantras, Gotamas, Katanas, but they have not been durable and they are pricey...but damn I like the way they ski! I don't wish them ill, though I do think they should work with me on this and maybe they will...the shop is advocating on my behalf but warned me that Volkl has shut them down on this issue in the past.

**Chowda** · 04-06-2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by morrisairtime

Why would you say that?

You can honestly say that you would have been okay if the conversation went like this:

you: I'd like to buy these Katanas to throw my o1's on.

Shop: oh no, those aren't tele skis, you should get these (as they point you to some piste stinx)

you: That's a great idea, I'm so glad you pointed that out to me. I might have died on those Katanas

Shop: You bet! We pride ourselves on knowing what is best for our customers.

**morrisairtime** · 04-06-2009, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Chowda

You can honestly say that you would have been okay if the conversation went like this:

you: I'd like to buy these Katanas to throw my o1's on.

Shop: oh no, those aren't tele skis, you should get these (as they point you to some piste stinx)

you: That's a great idea, I'm so glad you pointed that out to me. I might have died on those Katanas

Shop: You bet! We pride ourselves on knowing what is best for our customers.

Maybe not...BUT if the shop shop had said; " You know, I should tell you that this is a sweet powder ski but there's a chance based on this not being a tele engineered ski and BDs design issues that you might rip the binding out of this ski and if you do you should be aware that Volkl will likely not cover the issue, so please consider that before you give us $1100 dollars. Volkkl has had issues of this type with the Gotama, and oh by the way these Anti Piste are clunky sluggish shitty boards so no matter what you decide don't buy them. And, if you are going to roll the dice maybe go with a Hammerhead binding which has a 6 hole pattern over a broader area....blah, blah.
Expert advice is why I go to a specific shop in the first place and it's why I write to a forum like this...does that make sense to you? All of this is water under the damn bridge.