So Obama wants to stop AIG bonuses

**Labcabin** · 03-16-2009, 02:04 PM

So AIG is still giving multi millions dollar bonuses and Obama is mad and wants to find a way to block them. Now maybe the bank bailout money was passed before Obama became president. BUT FUCK'N A, remember how RUSHED congress was to pass the bill, and how if we waited another day to debate or think about it, the economy would fail. Well we are still here and why the fuck didn't congress write something into that bill so that AIG couldnt give big bonuses out. Why does it seem that our politicians are so stupid that they always get the wool pulled over their eyes and have to go back after the fact and fix the reasons they where made to look like an ass.

Now Obama looks like a pissed off school kid trying to find a way to get the lunch money back they his club got suckered out of.

I thought congress at least had to have a little brain to get where they are. But they get duped again, with our money. WTF.

Obama, Bush, Dem, Repub ... stupid fucks.

**OSECS** · 03-16-2009, 02:06 PM

Is this from the first TARP bill ??

**Labcabin** · 03-16-2009, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by OSECS

Is this from the first TARP bill ??

Im really not sure. I was trying to save the current president a little face by thinking maybe it was. If its from the latest bailout. More egg on your face Obama, and fuck you Pelosi for both times.

**OSECS** · 03-16-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Labcabin

Im really not sure. I was trying to save the current president a little face by thinking maybe it was. If its from the latest bailout. More egg on your face Obama. And Fuck you Pelosi for both times.

Bingo on the Pelosi jab !! Whether it was Pres. Bush or Pres. Obama, Congress wrote the bill. Not to stick knitting needles in anyones eyes (well maybe just a little

) it was a democratically controlled house and senate.

**Tye 1on** · 03-16-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by OSECS

Bingo on the Pelosi jab !! Whether it was Pres. Bush or Pres. Obama, Congress wrote the bill. Not to stick knitting needles in anyones eyes (well maybe just a little

) it was a democratically controlled house and senate.

Majority Dem, but not 60 in the Senate. Hudge difference.

But, your point is just as valid. A crappy bill, rushed, that had no transparency or good planning behind it.

And whining about $160million in bonuses kinda pales to the billions we've paid out to them...

**OSECS** · 03-16-2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

And whining about $160million in bonuses kinda pales to the billions we've paid out to them...

Yep, my mistake on the house make up. I have such mixed feelings about the phrase "$160 million kind of pales". One one hand it is a pretty measly sum, but on the other hand how many of these $160 million sums are out there spread throughout the TARP bills I and II, and throughout our typical budgets ??

**Labcabin** · 03-16-2009, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

Majority Dem, but not 60 in the Senate. Hudge difference.

But, your point is just as valid. A crappy bill, rushed, that had no transparency or good planning behind it.

And whining about $160million in bonuses kinda pales to the billions we've paid out to them...

Let alone how much pork was taken from that bill for congress' own agenda's. The hypocrisy is too much. Obama also signed that bill, came back from the campaign trail to make a point he was needed and to try and make McCain look bad. So what the fuck did he do when in DC. Had a fucking media presser. Its all so much crap.

**OSECS** · 03-16-2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Labcabin

Let alone how much pork was taken from that bill for congress' own agenda's. The hypocrisy is to much. Obama also signed that bill, came back from the campaign trail to make a point he was needed and try and make McCain look bad. SO what the fuck did he do when in DC. Had a fucking media presser. Its all soo much crap.

Very good points. McCain was the one who really tried to make political hay from that act though.

**Labcabin** · 03-16-2009, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by OSECS

Very good points. McCain was the one who really tried to make political hay from that act though.

Very true

**Downbound Train** · 03-16-2009, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Labcabin

I thought congress at least had to have a little brain to get where they are. But they get duped again, with our money. WTF.

Obama, Bush, Dem, Repub ... stupid fucks.

That's our big mistake. These clowns only have to be good at two things....Getting elected and staying elected.

And for the most part that's ALL they are good at. Buying votes, trading donations for favors and leaving US holding the bag. TERM LIMITS!

**farmguy** · 03-16-2009, 02:56 PM

And another reason the first bailout was passed on to AIG so fast...that is where the Congress has ALL their pension money deposited, yet now they (congress)are crying over bonus's paid out even while they are hoping and praying their own nest egg stays intact. No one has yet to tell the truth and admit that this whole mess starts and ends in Congress's hands.

Mid-term elections cannot come soon enough, vote EVERY person in DC out and start with a brand new Congress, well at least 1/2 of them.

**BSS** · 03-16-2009, 02:58 PM

Must be nice to be AIG. Your business is completely in the tank and you STILL have enough muscle to arm twist and basically tell president of the united states and the entire congress to suck it. That's pretty remarkable.

**Tye 1on** · 03-16-2009, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by farmguy

And another reason the first bailout was passed on to AIG so fast...that is where the Congress has ALL their pension money deposited,

orly?

You have anything to back that up? Last I saw, all those knuckleheads had the same retirement as any other fed employee, had been CSRS, then FIRS, with the Thrift Savings Plan. Are all those all deposited at AIG as well?????

**ski_adk** · 03-16-2009, 03:37 PM

Well, since those bonuses were contracted before any of the bailouts happened, and since we're supposedly a nation of law, I don't think Obama will really be able to block the bonuses.

Besides, the bonuses were mostly geared towards clock punchers -- you know, they're the type people who just go in, do their jobs and go home. These folks are just everyday workers performing their job duties, just like many of us do day-in, day-out. These really aren't the types of people per se who caused this financial crisis.

The real bastards we should be going after are those who changed company policy to allow for the recklessness which drove the economy over the cliff.

Smokey McPole · 03-16-2009, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

These clowns only have to be good at two things....Getting elected and staying elected.

I still have hope that sooner or later (actually just make that sooner) the American Zombie class will snap out of it and cancell this ^^^^ out. That or the ex-Zombies will be angry enough to just bypass the ballot box and decorate every streetlight in DC with hanging clowns.

**Downbound Train** · 03-16-2009, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by ski_adk

Well, since those bonuses were contracted before any of the bailouts happened, and since we're supposedly a nation of law, I don't think Obama will really be able to block the bonuses.

Besides, the bonuses were mostly geared towards clock punchers -- you know, they're the type people who just go in, do their jobs and go home. These folks are just everyday workers performing their job duties, just like many of us do day-in, day-out. These really aren't the types of people per se who caused this financial crisis.

The real bastards we should be going after are those who changed company policy to allow for the recklessness which drove the economy over the cliff.

^^^That pretty much says it right there. Good post Sir...If you want to hang somebody by the balls, make it The members of the House Banking Comittee and the SEC. They make AND enforce the rules don't they? THEY FAIL!

If the Gov expects AIG to void legal contracts, they should have let them go bankrupt.

**rideit** · 03-16-2009, 04:27 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/dead...administration

Is this offensive?
And what does the Golden Gate Bridge have to do with fried chicken?

**OSECS** · 03-16-2009, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by rideit

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/dead...administration

Is this offensive?
And what does the Golden Gate Bridge have to do with fried chicken?

I've seen a lot more offensive stuff than that. I mean come on.... it's the Germans what do they know about being offensive ??

Smokey McPole · 03-16-2009, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by rideit

Is this offensive?

Yes. Curry tastes like puke.

**farmguy** · 03-17-2009, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

orly?

You have anything to back that up? Last I saw, all those knuckleheads had the same retirement as any other fed employee, had been CSRS, then FIRS, with the Thrift Savings Plan. Are all those all deposited at AIG as well?????

Oppps, I just was reading through a few emails and passed it on, I have since checked it out and it was BS......

But, they still need voted out at the next election

**woodstocksez** · 03-17-2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by ski_adk

Well, since those bonuses were contracted before any of the bailouts happened, and since we're supposedly a nation of law, I don't think Obama will really be able to block the bonuses.

I don't know bankruptcy law, but if a company is bankrupt, employees may be the ones to absorb part of the losses. I do know that at one of my clients that was on life support a few years ago, at least my contact person had his pay suspended for a short period of time. The point is, saying we're a nation of laws doesn't really get you to an answer on this question: you've got to analyze the situation in view of all the relevant laws.

Originally Posted by ski_adk

Besides, the bonuses were mostly geared towards clock punchers -- you know, they're the type people who just go in, do their jobs and go home. These folks are just everyday workers performing their job duties, just like many of us do day-in, day-out. These really aren't the types of people per se who caused this financial crisis.

You're being sarcastic, right? Or are you really that retarded? No, you're being sarcastic. Right?

**woodstocksez** · 03-17-2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

If the Gov expects AIG to void legal contracts, they should have let them go bankrupt.

When a company goes bankrupt, they have legal monetary obligations to a bunch of different entities, many of whom don't get paid in full or, in some cases, at all. AIG would be bankrupt without government intervention. (Edit to add - so, setting aside the real legal analysis that should be done, I guess what this means to me is that I'm OK with treating them as effectively bankrupt.) So blathering about "voiding legal contracts" doesn't mean much. If you know something about relevant bankruptcy law, then let's hear it.

**1080Rider** · 03-17-2009, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by woodstocksez

So blathering about "voiding legal contracts" doesn't mean much. If you know something about relevant bankruptcy law, then let's hear it.

The company entered into employment contracts. They have not filed for bankruptcy protection so they can and will get sued for not fulfilling the employment contracts. Since you and I now own AIG, I'd hope that we fulfill the employment contracts and not allow the company to be sued thus lining the pockets of some attorney's at our expense. It will be cheaper to pay the bonuses than the atty's fees and judgments that will be awarded when the bonuses aren't paid.

**Downbound Train** · 03-17-2009, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by woodstocksez

When a company goes bankrupt, they have legal monetary obligations to a bunch of different entities, many of whom don't get paid in full or, in some cases, at all. AIG would be bankrupt without government intervention. So blathering about "voiding legal contracts" doesn't mean much. If you know something about relevant bankruptcy law, then let's hear it.

I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer. Don't know that much about it. Willing to be educated.

I'm saying that the Gov SHOULD have let AIG go Bankrupt. Then AIG would be able to re-negotiate their contracts and cancel or reduce some of these bonuses and huge deals with the European banks...

What motivation does an AIG creditor have to renegotiate NOW?

They have contracts that are, in effect, backed by AIG AND the government under the current situation.

My point is that the government ENABLED all these contracts to remain payable by AIG. Now they are pissed about it. Sounds like bad planning by the Gov??

My understanding is that a company is on the hook for all of their contracts unless they declare bankruptcy. Am I off the tracks?

**woodstocksez** · 03-17-2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by 1080Rider

The company entered into employment contracts. They have not filed for bankruptcy protection so they can and will get sued for not fulfilling the employment contracts. Since you and I now own AIG, I'd hope that we fulfill the employment contracts and not allow the company to be sued thus lining the pockets of some attorney's at our expense. It will be cheaper to pay the bonuses than the atty's fees and judgments that will be awarded when the bonuses aren't paid.

See the edit to my post above.

I don't know what the relevant legal analysis should be, but government intervention is obviously not the norm for a company to avoid bankruptcy. Perhaps, then, there is an argument that the rules are different in that case. Maybe not. But my initial thought is that the obligation to fulfill those contracts is predicated on a regime that does not include government bailout of a company heading toward bankruptcy.

Eminent domain allows the government to take private property and pay appropriate compensation. The property owner doesn't get to say that they won't sell for any price, as they could if the government was not involved. I'm suggesting that similar modifications to the normal rules may apply here (edit to add - the general idea being that extraordinary government involvement changes the rules of the game). Or they may not. But it seems a reasonable avenue of inquiry to pursue.

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