Lhasa Pow 186 vs 196 Review

[Eldo]

Running length of EE's old 188 Bros is 63.5" (161 cm). They have quite a long turned up tail. Don't know how that compares to current 188s.

[Howie]

Great review man. Going to pull the trigger on a pair of of 186's I Think.

[bluejet59]

I'll second that one.... is there a place in Jackson to demo the Lhasas?

[jondrums]

I'm patiently waiting on a pair of 196 carbons. Thanks for making it extremely hard to stay patient - especially with snow coming down...

[schwerty]

WOW!!! you should work for PM gear! but I guess independent reviews are more valuable than reviews from people on the payroll.....I am definitely looking for either the 196's or the 186's. Sure would be cool to give those a try in JH next week. anybody know of ski shops that rent them for demos? or wanna let me ride them for a day. I'll pay for beers at the end of the day.

Awesome review!

My 186's are mounted with dukes...317bsl. Assuming I'm not skiing, you can take mine for a spin.

[Jesse]

Is there anywhere to demo these in Whistler? I hear so much good stuff that I'd love to try them out.

[eldereldo]

Is there anywhere to demo these in Whistler? I hear so much good stuff that I'd love to try them out.

What's your boot sole size? When are you going to be in Whistler next? Know any Maggots to vouch for you? Sorry about that one, but 17 posts, and your chosen name leaves me wanting some backup for comfort before I hand you $1500.00 worth of skis and bindings. If your boot sole is close enough we can meet during the day and we could swap for a few runs for you to try them, but you really should ski on them for a full day

[khyber.pass]

The only thing I have found it that they don't exactly fit into some of the rather narrow sideslips that are cursing access to the Whistler bowls this year, so now I have to straightline them

I know the feeling. Straightlined down Cirque last week instead of trying to nav around the usual-but-now-even-tighter rocks and sharp left. That was "interesting." Shot out into the bowl at Mach 5, pulled a big arc, and flipped over backwards. Landed back on my feet. FKNA feeling, mind you.

Hey Elderado, I'm going to drop you a line... perhaps I can swap ya' to demo some Lhasas. I'm here in Whistler, and yah, got them references.

[Jesse]

I was lucky enough to try out a pair of 186 Carbons yesterday; thanks Eldorado! The conditions were a little less then ideal, ranging from hard pack to boiler plate. The BRO's ripped through these conditions better than I expected them too. The only time I wished I was on something else was on truly icy, (for Whistler), steep groomers. In nearly all other conditions these ski's killed it. They require a lot more skier input then my usually skis, but respond with amazing stability at speed. The Carbon's return everything you put into them. They reminded me of some of my older ski's in the sense that it took a bit more then simply leaning them over to turn them. I found that I had to concentrate a bit more and work on wieght transfer. I think I would really need more then one day to really dial in the 186s, but really they felt pretty natural from the first turns at speed. These don't like to be skied slowly and are a lot more work to ski that way. I found it best to just open them up and go for it. I was really glad I was wearing stiff alpine boots, I'm not sure how easy it would be to control them with light touring gear.
These loved to make bigger turns in all conditions. In the bit of softer snow I was able to find these ski's were amazing and flew through open bowls at high speed. The Lhassa's really suited my skiing style and I was in love with them all morning. However, I did find that near the end of the day as my legs began to scream a bit, I began to wish for something a touch easier. I would definitely have to work out more if I wanted these as an every day ski.
Overall a great ski, and a possible everyday west coast ski, especially for a stronger (or heavier) skier. I wish I had these in out in ideal conditions, but since they worked as well as they did in poor conditions, I can only imagine how good they'd be on a pow day.
Finally, to add a little to this thread, I don't think that I'd need the 196, I never really felt like these were too short.
p.s.
A little about me.
6'1 ~ 190lbs.
Skiing 20 years, mostly Whistler/Blackcomb
Fairly fast, aggresive skier by most people's standards; but maybe not by people on this boards
I currently ride Prophet 100's as everyday ski (I would be very happy to have 2 ski quiver: Prophets for days with no new, Lhassa Carbons for most soft days)

[bennettc14]

I think I could use a nice 192cm Carbon Lhasa. I'm in the in between stage. I'm around 5'10 165lbs and ski very aggressive. Thinking I'll get a 196cm Carbon Lhasa as well. Unless a "medium" 192cm comes out for next year? My 186 Carbons are kickin ass every day. Yeah boiler plate sucks with them, but shit I've skied: pow with a thick crust layer, chalk, spring slush, bumps, tight trees, groomers, steep chalk, hard shit crud, slush ice with death cookies, and good ole kickass pow...and these things kill it. Weird Jackson shit during high pressure a week out from 18 inches. I may suggest an extra 1-2mm of camber for more all around kickin ass? I wouldn't suggest the 186 for anyone over 175lbs or over 6'.

192cm Lhasa = Perfect length...I foresee

I agree with the 192 comment. I'm 5'9 165 and I have the 186 glass and sometimes wish I had something longer and stiffer (I know I know carbons). I would consider getting some carbon 196s but I could never see myself using them out East. I find the 186s do suprisingly awesome in soft bumps, feel like I have a 95 waisted ski on my feet. The 186s as everyone said are great for everything hands down but sometimes wish I had more effective edge when stuff starts to firm up. When things get really hard and crummy I grab my 89 squads but I can't even begin to keep those tips from diving on me. I think a 190-192 carbon would be the tits for me . Maybe I'll just have to sack up to the longer length but I think I remember Pat saying he was interested in a medium length. Anyone out here on the ice coast looking into some 196s?

[schwerty]

I'll add to the pile...

Ski: 186 Carbons
Boot: Factor
Binding: Duke
Me: 195lbs. A little out of shape but aggressive skier. I ski mostly in AT boots and bindings on and off the resort. So, despite the carbons being light, this is a fairly heavy rig in my mind.

Went out for a short tour this afternoon. They continued to impress me. Not the first tour but the most interesting for sure. I've got some resort laps in all conditions on these and a couple short tours in consolidated snow on a variety of slope angles. They get more fun every time I take 'em out.

I decided to really test these things today - tried to find the shittiest conditions, (for the dh), possible. Being that that isn't overly tough to do in the tetons lately, I had no trouble finding a 800 vert run with bulletproof ruts, sun baked consolidated snow, wind crust, thick sun crust, and just plain ole rotten snow. I wanted know what these things could do in all types of shitty conditions in the case I find myself on an all day survival turns type tour. I fully expected to hate every minute of the downhill. I was blown away! These things actually made conditions that nobody would call fun, very tolerable. The transitions between conditions were almost seamless! I expected to take few tumbles and have at least one double ejection, (set the binding lower than normal in anticipation), from breaking through some of the nasty crusts I encountered. Never happened. Top to bottom twice blasting through all the shit.

There was no speed limit and ANY type of turn was possible. Pretty impressive for what I was skiing. As stated before, when on hard snow you can't be in the back seat. Found myself cheating there through a few transitions and was tossed around slightly but was able to recover easily.

Bottom line : I continue to be more and more impressed by the 186 carbons . They are mostly a resort set up for me but they proved worthy of any condition from my outing today. I've never found a ski that can handle so many condtions. Can't wait to get on the 196's!

[Tye 1on]

FKNA great review Schwerty. Do recall your initial ambivalence about them as an all arounder from some interesting times on hard snow, but it's great to hear of their schwing in the crud. Much more challenging conditions than just the firm. Can't wait to hear how the 196C's do for ya!!!

[upallnight]

I decided to really test these things today - tried to find the shittiest conditions, (for the dh), possible. Being that that isn't overly tough to do in the tetons lately, I had no trouble finding a 800 vert run with bulletproof ruts, sun baked consolidated snow, wind crust, thick sun crust, and just plain ole rotten snow. I wanted know what these things could do in all types of shitty conditions in the case I find myself on an all day survival turns type tour. I fully expected to hate every minute of the downhill. I was blown away! These things actually made conditions that nobody would call fun, very tolerable. The transitions between conditions were almost seamless! I expected to take few tumbles and have at least one double ejection, (set the binding lower than normal in anticipation), from breaking through some of the nasty crusts I encountered. Never happened. Top to bottom twice blasting through all the shit.

thanks for the info, schwerty. for those who are local, can you tell us where you tested these? that would help put some comments into perspective.

[i understand what you were trying to assess and applaud you for the commitment to your test. i was skiing steep pow yesterday, day 100 of 08/09. ]

[splat]

I'm patiently waiting on a pair of 196 carbons. Thanks for making it extremely hard to stay patient - especially with snow coming down...

Jon - you have been waiting like a saint. And a bunch of other people have, too.
We are back on 196s and we're gonna have them pounded out just as fast as we can. Thanks to everyone who has waited so faithfully. We got started on them once, then had a materials glitch that interrupted pressing them, but the guys that got out on the ones we pressed reported back in a snowgasmic-like trance state about them. Shit, I wanna ski them, too!

ps - There's a demo pair of 196s at Cornice Sports in Kirkwood.

[jondrums]

no problem...
ps. sick pictures - thanks for the stoke!

[schwerty]

thanks for the info, schwerty. for those who are local, can you tell us where you tested these? that would help put some comments into perspective.

[i understand what you were trying to assess and applaud you for the commitment to your test. i was skiing steep pow yesterday, day 100 of 08/09. ]

I was up Phillips. Towards ski lake/P. Pass trail area...north of the cliffs directly below the Tucks runout. I also skied the low angle crap above beacon basin on the way out instead of the sled tracks to the road. That was exceptionally shitty! I wish I had more time to ski some fun snow but it was a one headed test mission.

[splat]

I was up Phillips. Towards ski lake/P. Pass trail area...north of the cliffs directly below the Tucks runout. I also skied the low angle crap above beacon basin on the way out instead of the sled tracks to the road. That was exceptionally shitty! I wish I had more time to ski some fun snow but it was a one headed test mission.

Thanks for doing that, schwerty. It's nice to have someone else's third party objective testing confirm what I've been saying. The cool thing about the Lhasas is how at first you think, "oh, shit, this is weird", then you start saying "wait a minute, these babies got some unforeseen personality traits that simply fukkin rock." And then those personality traits start unfolding more and more...

[pechelman]

In any event, this is probably a dumb idea for a number of reasons, especially, since the Lhasa was—probably—never designed with the Dynafit crowd in mind but the ski really does kill it in the Utah backcountry.

fwiw, this ski was most definitely designed with dynafits in mind
it just so happened the ski pat asked me to draw up was the exact ski i wanted for everday general backcountry use here in colorado.
ive had two pair and mounted them both with dynafits, as was my plan all along.

[MultiVerse]

fwiw, this ski was most definitely designed with dynafits in mind
it just so happened the ski pat asked me to draw up was the exact ski i wanted for everday general backcountry use here in colorado.
ive had two pair and mounted them both with dynafits, as was my plan all along.

The skis are FKNA awesome. I was just whinging a little because my feet were chewed up by a skin track that was rock hard, slightly narrow, and chewed up by a snowmobile (you never know until you get there, right), so, five miles of off camber skinning with wide skis put huge blisters on the instep of both heals.

Otherwise, the Lhasa Pow is awesome in every condition and I expect it to use it for spring skiing as well.

[pechelman]

i know that feeling exactly, and they do indeed suck there

[upallnight]

I was up Phillips. Towards ski lake/P. Pass trail area...north of the cliffs directly below the Tucks runout. I also skied the low angle crap above beacon basin on the way out instead of the sled tracks to the road. That was exceptionally shitty! I wish I had more time to ski some fun snow but it was a one headed test mission.

thanks, schwerty. sorry for not responding sooner -- wasnt checking in regularly.

i know exactly where you were and you definitely hit the perfect spot to check out... umm... variable snow conditions. what a great test!

[splat]

Iirc the carbon does drop the weight a bit, cuz it replaces a, maybe two layers of glass? Every time i've read about 'carbon' it's mentioned the word 'poppy'. Not sure actually what that means, guessing it means 'a bit stiffer with a lot more attitude'...

The carbon really works nicely in conjunction with the fiberglass and as a weight saver two layers of carbon weigh almost nothing, whereas two extra layers of glass add a very noticeable amount of weight in hand and on the swing. We might adjust core thickness next season so the glass have only one layer of glass top and one bottom to shave weight on that option. However, you just can't simply explain what the carbon does in words as well as it explains itself in a well-seated turn.

[tsproul]

However, you just can't simply explain what the carbon does in words as well as it explains itself in a well-seated turn.

So any chance of you pressing 179's with some carbon?

For next season...........I think the que is plenty long enough for this season .

[splat]

Anything could happen...

We're shipping out the 179s and some 188s Monday, then we're on the home stretch with the rest of the 196s.
Prolly make some extra pairs for people heading to AK who want a pair at the last minute.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

since this is the 186 and 196 review thread...

Now that I have spent significant time on both I can chime in a little bit. I love them both and it's a tough choice every ski day to pick only one. I'm 5'10" 175, ski fast and aggresive and both work for me.

i had the 196 Lhasa out on a few deep days (including today at Kirkwood) and it is hands down the fastest powder ski I have ever been on. My previous standard was the DPS Lotus 138 Flex 3, but the Lhasa is so much more versatile in that it can actually carve on soft groomers and hold a real edge when you stand on it, and I actually like that it has a narrower waist for stomping larger airs (i.e. sometimes you DO want to sink on an air). This is my new AK ski (if I ever go back), comp ski, powder ski...everything.

The 186 is just as good, except livelier whereas the 196 is more damp at speed (not that the 186 isn't dampe at speed, the 196 is just even more so) It feels more playful. It might sacrficice just a bit of top-end mach looney speed as compared to the 196, but it's just as versatile, and when I'm on it I want to pop off every air, slash every berm....and just play This is also my new AK ski (if I ever go back, comp ski, powder ski...everything.

Pat - I am stoked. Strong effing work