Thread: New Tires for a 4wd truck... snows or AT's

I bought my 4-runer from a buddy who had it for only 1 week before he rear ended someone ... nice guy ,he threw in the 4 studded snows on rims when I bought it off him

Originally Posted by Tick

And, I've got some really badass circular logic going in my head to justify the purchase..... I found some tacoma steel rims for $100 for the set, I purchased the tires for $440 and I'll be in for another $80 for mounting and balancing. The way I see it in my twisted little mind is that the snow tires will effectively lengthen the life of my summer tires. get it? Instead of paying $440 for 50K worth of tires I'll pay like $900 for 100K miles worth. then I can divide the $180 by the 4 years i expect the snows to last and rationilize spending $45 per winter for some extra security. follow all that?

Actually, in my experience, your logic is reasonably sound. Although, depending on much driving you do on dry roads, you may not get 4 years and almost definitely won't get 50K out of them. See below....

Originally Posted by P_McPoser

BUT--I drive on relatively permanently snow covered roads about 6 months out of the year, not sure how well they'd last on dry pavement.

This will be my third winter driving on Blizzaks from Dec through March. I live in CT driving ~200 miles/week to and from work mostly on dry roads. Nearly every weekend I drive ~500 miles round trip to/from VT mostly on dry roads, at least until I get to the mountains. I expect this will be my last winter on that set so I probaly will have ended up getting 30K - 35K miles out of them. Not great but not bad and methinks that's decent durability for the extra safety. As long as snows aren't driven too much in warmer weather the rubber compound doesn't wear too quickly.

Originally Posted by basinbeater

If you have 4wd, snow tires aren't really necessary. I use BFG A/T tko tires on my 4runner. Kick ass in the snow, kick ass in the desert, and they last 50,000 miles. Little pricey, but I rarely get stuck, and believe me, I try. Also, you won't ever get a flat unless the tire is just about bald.

My Blizzaks make my BFGs look like pieces of shit in snow. But, what you don't know, may hurt you when you rear end my ass when I actually stop.

Originally Posted by basinbeater

If you have 4wd, snow tires aren't really necessary.

So you've driven yer truck with good dediceted snows then?

It's like wankin' and actualyl fuckin'. Sure, wankin' with get the job done, but it's not really the real thing .

If you mainly drive on snowy surfaces during the winter months, getting real winter tires on separate rims will prolly work out cheaper in the long run. If the roads are often ice (say over 60% of the time) get studded winter tires.

And if you drive mainly in LA... well, I'm sorry .

Just to add to this a bit. We live in Denver where it snows frequently, but melts off the road fairly quickly too. I put the snows on the subie the night before the snow falls, or before I take it skiing, then I take them off and put the summers back on as soon as the roads are clear again. I have a compressor and air impact as well as a decent floor jack. It takes me less than 15 minutes to change out all 4 tires. I absolutely expect to get 5 seasons or more out of the snows. I'm on my second season now and they show no appreciable wear at all. Good call, OP, on getting a dedicated set. Now just be dilligent about swapping them out on dry days and you'll be making good on that promise to yourself to get lots of mileage out of them.

Originally Posted by flip

A civic with snow tires will kick the shit out of any 4wd on ATs. Any ATs.

Just call when you need my truck with AT tires on it to yank your Civic driving ass out of the ditch when the drift you hit tosses off the road.

Originally Posted by Cruiser

Just to add to this a bit. We live in Denver where it snows frequently, but melts off the road fairly quickly too. I put the snows on the subie the night before the snow falls, or before I take it skiing, then I take them off and put the summers back on as soon as the roads are clear again. I have a compressor and air impact as well as a decent floor jack. It takes me less than 15 minutes to change out all 4 tires. I absolutely expect to get 5 seasons or more out of the snows. I'm on my second season now and they show no appreciable wear at all. Good call, OP, on getting a dedicated set. Now just be dilligent about swapping them out on dry days and you'll be making good on that promise to yourself to get lots of mileage out of them.

I think that's a bit more than most people are willing to put up with. Ever considered applying for a NASCAR pit crew?

My experience with dedicated snows w/o doing all the on/off that Cruiser does, is that you'll get about 30k-35k on a snow tire that in all likely hood will spend about 75% of the miles on dry/wet pavement.

Originally Posted by PlayHarder

Just call when you need my truck with AT tires on it to yank your Civic driving ass out of the ditch when the drift you hit tosses off the road.

I actualy was a road warrior for 10yrs and 500,000+km in both a 4-runer with 4 studded winters and a golf with 4 studded nokians,same job, all the same highways and all the same weather

sure a pickup or 4-runer is gona be great at 50 kph but at highway speeds you got a short wheelbase /high center of gravity and you are going too fast to use 4x4 and/or have it mean very much

I would have about 6 "brown pants" situations as I called em a season in the 4-runer where I might be suddenly headed for a B-train sideways at 100kph cuz shit just happend so fast .

The incidents went WAY down when I got the golf cuz anyway you cut it a longer CG/low center of gravity is more stable ...that and i saved 17k on fuel in 5 years

actualy an x cab is better than an suv cuz the WB is usually longer

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I actualy was a road warrior for 10yrs and 500,000+km

Meh, I average 80-90,000km's a year and have for the last 13 years. From S. Alberta to NE BC and into the Yukon along with numerous trips aver Rogers and Kootenay passes every winter.
I've also put a lot of miles on old Civics, love my Honda's, along with various trucks, both 2 and 4wd.
Honestly, I think that a front wheel drive and good winter tires will get most people where they need to go in good shape and that too many people simply get overconfident with their 4wd trucks and SUVS and would better off in a car.
I don't agree that a Civic with snow tires will beat a 4wd with good AT tires, though.

Originally Posted by PlayHarder

I don't agree that a Civic with snow tires will beat a 4wd with good AT tires, though.

what is "beat" ?

for me "beat" means i made it to where i wanted to go getting 50MPG without any incident and i didnt spill my coffee or soil my underwear

if a civic with 4 studded snows is more stable at highway speed (and I know it is) than a 4x4 with AT tires ,then the civic "beats" the 4x4 ...for me anyway



AND ,if i don't go in the ditch cuz I paid alot of $$ for the best snow tires in the world , I dont 'need you to pull me out

At least in California, if you don't have 4WD/AWD or chains actually mounted on the vehicle, CalTrans won't let you through chain control areas. Snow tires (real snow tires, not "M+S rated") aren't good enough to satisfy CalTrans.

Stupid, but true.

Originally Posted by XXX-er

AND ,if i don't go in the ditch cuz I paid alot of $$ for the best snow tires in the world , I dont 'need you to pull me out

Actual quote from about 10 days ago as I was attaching a tow rope to a guys Civic,
"I don't what happened, the Honda's been great since I put the new winter tires on."

It'll take a lot of convincing to get me to agree that there's a front wheel drive car in production that'll make it to the same place as a truck with those crappy AT tires on it.

Originally Posted by PlayHarder

Actual quote from about 10 days ago as I was attaching a tow rope to a guys Civic,
"I don't what happened, the Honda's been great since I put the new winter tires on."

It'll take a lot of convincing to get me to agree that there's a front wheel drive car in production that'll make it to the same place as a truck with those crappy AT tires on it.

There are definitely situations in which I'd take my current ride (Suburban) with the crappy summer tires over my old Golf and good winter tires; in particular, anything where the higher clearance was particularly helpful and I was going to be operating at low speed.

At highway speed, though, I'd rather be driving a smaller, lighter car with good snow tires than a friggin' battleship. I'm much more comfortable with a VW sliding around the highway than I am the Suburban--that's a lot of momentum once it gets going in any particular direction (granted, even my Golf at 2200 pounds is a lot of momentum, but it's nothing compared to the Suburban). If the roads are bad enough that I'd rather have the Suburban's ground clearance and 4WD on the interstate, there's a good chance I'm going to do whatever I can to park the vehicle and do something more weather-appropriate (like break out the skins).

Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum

At highway speed, though, I'd rather be driving a smaller, lighter car with good snow tires than a friggin' battleship.).

I'd take a small car over any Canyonero type vehicle, too. Thankfully, I've never owned an SUV and the original question was what to put on a 4wd pickup.

Originally Posted by Rideski

This poll is flawed, you have people voting that have not had this epiphany yet:



It's like asking someone whose never had an apple if it is better than an orange or not.

you make me want to go try some snow tires

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

At least in California, if you don't have 4WD/AWD or chains actually mounted on the vehicle, CalTrans won't let you through chain control areas. Snow tires (real snow tires, not "M+S rated") aren't good enough to satisfy CalTrans.

Stupid, but true.

That's news to me, until this year I was only M+S without a problem.

I haven't read the entire thread but I'm an SUV driver and went with the 18" Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow Runflats as opposed to the AT version. It depends on how much you are going to some serious off-piste driving. The straight up winter tires will be much quieter and smoother on the roads than the AT. With the tires I've mentioned, I have driven the same vehicle with both versions, so speaking from experience

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

At least in California, if you don't have 4WD/AWD or chains actually mounted on the vehicle, CalTrans won't let you through chain control areas. Snow tires (real snow tires, not "M+S rated") aren't good enough to satisfy CalTrans.

Stupid, but true.

up here if you got snows or are carrying chains and the roads open ...yer good to go and the RCMP CAN turn you around if you are not equiped but there are rarely tire checks .If the plow can't keep up with snowfall the road closes and it doesnt matter if you got 4x4


playharder, I dont need to make it to the same place as a 4x4 ,I needed a cheap to operate/stable platform on the highway way more than I needed 4x4 or load carrying capacity so I got a car.

and what kind of snow tires was buddy running , so maybe he just fucked up ?

But in any case , I always hear what kind of snow tires & CHEAP mentioned usually in the same sentence ... nobody ever asks what are the best snow tires .

Maybe you will be ok with AT tires but AT is just not snow,AT is just not going to be as good ,its like saying an old pair of snow rangers is gona be fine instead of a new pair of (insert your favorite ski)

AND its not going to be the pulling a guy in a civic out when you wish you had great snow tires ...its gona be some day when you are going sideways at 90kph in a whiteout with a rig service truck coming at you who is also going sideways

ME ,I wanted Haks ,I didnt ask how much,I looked at the bill after buddy handed it to me ,it was 850$ , my ass is worth it ...YMMV

Clarification on CalTrans: when chains are required, or 4WD/AWD is required, then a 2WD vehicle with real snow tires is not acceptable to CalTrans. IIRC this is "R2" chain control.

"R1" is what they call "chains or snow tires," and in those conditions, all-season "M+S" tires are OK.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/chcontrl.htm

Originally Posted by XXX-er

up here if you got snows or are carrying chains and the roads open ...yer good to go and the RCMP CAN turn you around if you are not equiped but there are rarely tire checks .If the plow can't keep up with snowfall the road closes and it doesnt matter if you got 4x4


playharder, I dont need to make it to the same place as a 4x4 ,I needed a cheap to operate/stable platform on the highway way more than I needed 4x4 or load carrying capacity so I got a car.

and what kind of snow tires was buddy running , so maybe he just fucked up ?

But in any case , I always hear what kind of snow tires & CHEAP mentioned usually in the same sentence ... nobody ever asks what are the best snow tires .

Maybe you will be ok with AT tires but AT is just not snow,AT is just not going to be as good ,its like saying an old pair of snow rangers is gona be fine instead of a new pair of (insert your favorite ski)

AND its not going to be the pulling a guy in a civic out when you wish you had great snow tires ...its gona be some day when you are going sideways at 90kph in a whiteout with a rig service truck coming at you who is also going sideways

ME ,I wanted Haks ,I didnt ask how much,I looked at the bill after buddy handed it to me ,it was 850$ , my ass is worth it ...YMMV

I'm glad your setup works for you, but the original question was about tires on a 4wd pickup. I also mentioned above that I'd have no problems driving, and have driven, a small FWD car with winter tires (at least when deep or drifting snow wasn't a problem).
Just for reference, he was running Blizzaks and I don't shop for tires on price either.
Oh yeah, I work in the patch, chances are I've put more than a couple of miles on the same roads as the rig from example above and am somehow still alive.

I figured you were a rig pig from yer post the " South alberta to NE BC" and the fact you or I are still alive is purely anecdotal evidence

In any case snow tires are just better than AT tires period on ANY vehical

to some they are just tires to be bought cheap as you can ,me I think of them as more toys but its more than that ...its safety equipment

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I figured you were a rig pig from yer post the " South alberta to NE BC" and the fact you or I are still alive is purely anecdotal evidence

In any case snow tires are just better than AT tires period on ANY vehical

to some they are just tires to be bought cheap as you can ,me I think of them as more toys but its more than that ...its safety equipment

Little better educated than your average rig pig, but whatever.
I agree with you on the tires are safety equipment thing, just think you need to be able to differentiate between what works for your vehicle and what might work for another vehicle. Contrary to popular belief, there are differences in handling and typical use between a 4wd truck, and SUV and a small FWD car.
Driving a fwd car exclusively on snow covered or icy highways and staying home until the roads are plowed, can't beat a good winter tire.
Driving a 4wd pickup in mixed conditions including snow & ice, dry or wet pavement along with some dirt/gravel - you know, typical pickup truck type of usage - and it isn't so cut and dried. I still maintain that the Toyo AT's I've been running outperform the Blizzak DMZs I tried for a season in all conditions.

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

At least in California, if you don't have 4WD/AWD or chains actually mounted on the vehicle, CalTrans won't let you through chain control areas. Snow tires (real snow tires, not "M+S rated") aren't good enough to satisfy CalTrans.

Stupid, but true.

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Clarification on CalTrans: when chains are required, or 4WD/AWD is required, then a 2WD vehicle with real snow tires is not acceptable to CalTrans. IIRC this is "R2" chain control.

"R1" is what they call "chains or snow tires," and in those conditions, all-season "M+S" tires are OK.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/chcontrl.htm

I know what you're getting at but, a tire that has "M+S" on the sidewall is a snow tire. It may be an "all season" and it may be crappy in snow, but it still is technically a snow tire. The severe snow mountain/snowflake symbol indicates that the tire has been tested and meets that (higher) standard, but M+S is the designator for a snow tire (at least here in the US - I think yurp is ahead of us on this).

I put some Yokohama Geolander AT-S on my tacoma and now i have no need to even use 4wd.

Originally Posted by PlayHarder

I still maintain that the Toyo AT's I've been running outperform the Blizzak DMZs I tried for a season in all conditions.

ok so some AT's will be better than some snows , I could go with that but will any AT beat a snow anytime ,I say no and if you are really dealing with snow I think a real snow tire should have studs .

This year I been plowing thru 12" of fresh pow in a car with 4" of ground clearance , the best performance I have ever had from a snow tire ... so I havent had to wait for the plow

BTW Snow tires have been at a premium this year ,they changed the laws in quebec so you MUST runs snows in winter . Apparently this created shortages which put a run on the snow tire market in Canada ...glad I ordered mine early


"rigpig" is more about the lifestyle than just being the lowest lifeform on the lease

Originally Posted by XXX-er

ok so some AT's will be better than some snows , I could go with that but will any AT beat a snow anytime ,I say no...."rigpig" is more about the lifestyle than just being the lowest lifeform on the lease

I won't argue that, I've had some seriously crappy "AT" tires and have loved some of the winter tires I've ran, especially on my car. My old CRX with Nokians got me to many a powder morning, although there have been occasions when I needed to hitchhike the final stretch due to clearance issues. Still pretty sold on the Toyota truck/Toyo AT combo, though.
About the rigpig thing, I just meant that I more fit the BC hippy stereotype than the oilpatch trash Albertan stereotype. I just decided that i could accomplish more working within the industry than I could protesting it.