Thread: RNC on Kerry (NSR)

Hey all-

http://www.kerryoniraq.com/

The RNC/Shrub-Dick 04 put together this little ditty (okay it is long) but I found it kind of interesting. And the partisans can make of it what they will on both sides.

This might be the first political thread I've ever posted in, but that video really pisses me off. And... It'd piss me off regardless of who it was about. A carefully edited pile of garbage that is designed solely to sway those too ignorant or too stupid or too lazy to read between the lines or investigate more. It makes me want to scream that a bunch of sound bites giving half the story will be gobbled up as truth by a lot of morons in this country because they're so stupid from wandering the malls like a bunch of drugged-out androids programmed by the TV.

tell us how you really feel

I almost blurted out loud when they stop the tape right after "yeah"

that's child's play compared to the swiftboat ad. For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are choosing to make his Vietnam service such a focal point.

Originally posted by lemon boy
I almost blurted out loud when they stop the tape right after "yeah"

Heh... I let out a "D'OH!"

Mr-G,

I think because they think they can not lose on the question of vietnam service and it provides a backdrop of "experience" on certain issues.

I am surprised though that SBVFT is proceeding the way they are and that shrub/dick 04 is letting it happen. Cause if there is one thing shrub doesn't want it is to have to talk about vietnam service...

(oh and here's a funny for yall)

Originally posted by mr_gyptian
that's child's play compared to the swiftboat ad. For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are choosing to make his Vietnam service such a focal point.

I saw that ad this weekend. I'm guessing that is the ad the Sunday news programs were talking about when they asked the Republican guests if Pres. Bush would condemn it.

but they can lose on the issue. He lied about being in Cambodia multiple times. I admire him greatly for volunteering to serve. However, the way this is going we'll find out he was the one sent in to find Col. Kurtz. Then ten swiftboat mates will make a commercial refuting it.

All of the anti-kerry vietnam stuff I've seen so far has been of such nature as to make poor ken starr blush. Really.

I talked to my mom on the phone last night and we were discussing Kerry and Bush. She thinks Bush is an idiot and a poor President, but she also said she doesn't know about Kerry with all his "flip-flopping." My take on it is Bush is too damn bullheaded to ever flip-flop. He's unwilling to ever admit a decision he made is wrong. Kerry is willing to change his position when new facts come to light, Bush isn't. I'll take the guy who flip-flops.

I agree, it's stupid. These 527 groups are mocking campaign finance reform.

McCain shouldn't be recriminating the swiftee's or calling on Bush to recriminate them for this ad. After all, the legislation that created the 527's bears McCain's name.

More

people

who

regret

voting

for

Bush

in 2000

by

another 527

campaign finance reform is such an unbelievable cockup I don't even know what to think anymore.

Big money will have its say.

The little guy still has no shot in hell at being heard.

I do think McCain's being consistent as it is abusive and he was trying to stop the worst abuses. CFR is a tragic comedic study in the law of unintended consequences.

thank you for proving my point Woodsy. I'd love to have a peek at Moveon's books to see how much $$$ they're getting from Soros.

LB, I was really hoping you mispelled Badnarik. Chuck Bednarik would be a great candidate.

Dunno who he is but for a real conservative I think Mike Badnarik is the only candidate that is going to appear on ballots. Now, I am not hip to all of the Libs agenda (I am more green/libersocialtarian) but they're a pretty interesting group.

I know quite a few pretty hard core conservatives who are so pissed this year that they're abandoning the republican party until they wake up to their real base.

Originally posted by The AD
I talked to my mom on the phone last night and we were discussing Kerry and Bush. She thinks Bush is an idiot and a poor President, but she also said she doesn't know about Kerry with all his "flip-flopping." My take on it is Bush is too damn bullheaded to ever flip-flop. He's unwilling to ever admit a decision he made is wrong. Kerry is willing to change his position when new facts come to light, Bush isn't. I'll take the guy who flip-flops.

Op/Ed form last weeks NY Times:

Franklin Delano Roosevelt campaigned for the White House as a budget balancer. After his election, he started to spend money the government did not have, throwing one alphabet agency after another (CCC, WPA, etc.) into the black abyss of the Great Depression. FDR called this "the New Deal." In today's politics, it would be called flip-flopping.
John F. Kerry now finds himself accused of aggravated flip-flopping in the first degree. The charge comes from various Republican Party front groups, individual GOP fellow travelers and, of course, the president himself. Campaigning hither and yon, George W. Bush has had great fun mocking Kerry for, among other things, his vote for the war and a subsequent vote not to fund it. Not mentioned is that in between the two votes came ample evidence of incompetence on the part of Bush. And so Kerry, as behooves a thinking man, chose to voice a protest. The vote did not lend itself to sound-bite analysis, but it made a certain amount of sense: The war in Iraq was a mess; Bush had not earned a blank check.
In supposed contrast to Kerry, Bush presents himself as the immutable politician, a man of fixed, firm beliefs who sticks to them not because they are popular but because they are right -- despite all evidence or reason. This is certainly the case when it comes to his core beliefs. His devotion to minimal taxes on the rich, for instance, is touching, but it has put the government in such debt that it will take our children's children to pay it off. By then, Bush imagines, his visage will be on Mount Rushmore.
But on other matters, Bush has flipped and flopped with the best of them. As a presidential candidate, he declared himself implacably opposed to nation-building. Now we are engaged in building Iraq and Afghanistan. In Iraq, the cost has been not merely a ton of money, as it was in Haiti and other places Bush said he wouldn't go, but nearly a thousand American lives lost and countless more ruined. Mind you, with weapons of mass destruction all but declared a mirage in the desert, the new -- and sole -- justification for the war is not anything approaching self-defense but getting rid of Saddam Hussein and his regime. This is nation-replacement and nation-building, a total rehab project.
Bush also declared himself a determined unilateralist, kissing off treaties and understandings and even spurning NATO's help in Afghanistan. Now, though, the unilateralist of old is sending Colin Powell around the world, seeking alms and arms for Iraq. Flip-flop.
Bush would not negotiate with North Korea. He did. Flip-flop.
Bush told the United Nations to butt out of Iraq. Now he wants it in. Flip-flop.
The president opposed creating the Department of Homeland Security. Soon after, his strong opposition apparently slipped his mind and he flip-flopped his way to an embrace. Bush later opposed the creation of the Sept. 11 commission, but now he cannot thank it enough. He did not want his chief aides -- Condoleezza Rice, for instance -- to testify publicly before it but relented in the face of popular opposition. Flip-flop. He himself would not testify for all sorts of hallowed constitutional reasons and then, of course, did. Flip-flop. He insisted, though, on taking Dick Cheney with him, the functional equivalent of bringing the textbook to the exam -- not exactly a flip-flop, I grant you, but such a blatant admission of ineptitude that I am moved to include it nonetheless. Look, it's my column.
Finally, of course, we get Bush's recent call for the creation of the post of national intelligence director, a position he once opposed. This prompted James P. Rubin, a Kerry adviser, to ask, "Why did President Bush flip-flop?" It is indeed a vexing question. The answer, of course, is that Bush flip-flops all the time. If he had been in public life as long as Kerry has, his flip-flops would be as legion as the fish in the sea.
But it is the areas in which Bush's convictions have not changed that are the most troubling, and this includes a religiosity that comforts him in his intellectual inertness and granite-like beliefs that are impervious to logic, such as his tax policy and his relentless march to war in Iraq. Flip-flopping, like beauty, is in the mind of the beholder. It can be an indicator of an alert mind, one that adjusts to new realities, or it can be evidence of ambition decoupled from principle. With Kerry it's a mix of both. With Bush, who changes his positions but never his mind, it is always the latter.

Good column, Board. I hadn't seen that, but I was thinking almost exactly the same thing today when I heard someone try to claim Kerry is a flip-flopper. Bush claimed to support so many ideals that completely went out the window, and for some reason his reversals get little scrutiny, while Kerry's prudence is portrayed as being indecisive. Ridiculous.

I'd love to see the Republicans taken to task for Bush's flip-flops, but it doesn't seem to happen. I'd also like to hear what those guys who said Clinton was unfit to be president because he didn't serve in Vietnam have to say about AWOL George. For some reason they've got nothing to say now.

Originally posted by jibij
This might be the first political thread I've ever posted in, but that video really pisses me off. And... It'd piss me off regardless of who it was about. A carefully edited pile of garbage that is designed solely to sway those too ignorant or too stupid or too lazy to read between the lines or investigate more. It makes me want to scream that a bunch of sound bites giving half the story will be gobbled up as truth by a lot of morons in this country because they're so stupid from wandering the malls like a bunch of drugged-out androids programmed by the TV.

Dude, did you just watch Bowling for Columbine? I'm not a big fan of Michael Moore either.

There was a great article in the Wall Street Journal debunking the notion that Kerry is a flip-flopper. The jist of it was that he actually takes a lot of time to weigh issues and makes a point of being very well informed on all aspects of his decisions. So what some people see as flip flopping or wishy washyness is actually him taking the time to listen to all sides of the issue and then render an educated opinion. This is in direct contrast to Bush who tends to just listen to the basics and then shoot from the hip.

A prime example is the affirmative vote for authorization to go to way and his negative vote for further funding. He authorized the president to go to war if necessary. That doesn't mean he has to write a blank check later on if the war is being mismanaged. Despite advice from his top advisor to vote for the funding, he chose to vote against it. The reason for the nay vote? Since the president was fucking up things royally, he wanted congressional oversight into the war. Writing a blank check to the POTUS took any means of control out of congress' hands.

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki

I'd love to see the Republicans taken to task for Bush's flip-flops, but it doesn't seem to happen.

The Daily Show did a great bit about this last year. Did it as a debate between Gov. Bush and Pres. Bush. Basically showed himself pulling a complete 180 on almost every issue he campaigned on. Jon stewart seem to be the only one who will touch the issue though.

Lets settle this now.

If you're not rich and you're tired of being poor, vote for Kerry.

If you're scared of the terrorists, vote for Bush.


I saw the greatest bumpersticker the other day.

It read: Vote Nobody......awesome.

BUGS/DAFFY '04!!!
It's the logical choice!

Originally posted by Dantheman
The Daily Show did a great bit about this last year. Did it as a debate between Gov. Bush and Pres. Bush. Basically showed himself pulling a complete 180 on almost every issue he campaigned on. Jon stewart seem to be the only one who will touch the issue though.

If anyone has some spare webspace, I have this segment on my PC, but no bandwidth or space. PM or email me. dex at byu dot edu

Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
BUGS/DAFFY '04!!!
It's the logical choice!

[Daffy]"What!?! That rabbit's name over mine!"[/Daffy]