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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Flight 93 Crashed Without Struggle - So Much For the Heros

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._11_flight93_1

    U.S. National - AP

    Panel: Flight 93 Crashed Without Struggle

    By TED BRIDIS, Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON - Passengers aboard United Airlines Flight 93 fought back against the hijackers but never actually made it into the cockpit, the Sept. 11 commission concluded.

    The assertion, included in the panel's dramatic summary of the harrowing flight, contradicts the firmly held belief by some victims' families that passengers breached the cockpit and fought with hijackers inside during their final moments.

    In phone calls from the plane, four passengers said they and others planned to fight the hijackers after learning of the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York earlier that morning.

    With the words "Let's roll," passengers rushed down the airliner's narrow aisle to try to overwhelm the hijackers.

    Relying on the cockpit recorder and flight data, the commission said terrorist-pilot Ziad Jarrah violently rocked the jet's wings and told another hijacker to block the door. With the sounds of fighting outside the cockpit, Jarrah asked, "Is that it? Shall we finish it off?"

    Another hijacker, who wasn't identified, replied, "No, not yet. When they all come, we finish it off."

    Jarrah then began pitching the nose of the plane up and down to throw passengers off balance.

    Seconds later, a passenger who wasn't identified yelled, "In the cockpit! If we don't, we die!" And 16 seconds afterward, another passenger yelled, "Roll it!" Investigators previously have said they believe passengers tried to use a food cart to break the cockpit door.

    Jarrah said, "Allah is the greatest! Allah is the greatest!", and he asked his fellow hijacker, "Is that it? I mean, shall we put it down?"

    The other hijacker answered, "Yes, put it in, and pull it down."

    Roughly 90 seconds later, the jet rolled onto its back and crashed into a Pennsylvania field at more than 580 mph, killing everyone aboard.

    The commission concluded that the hijackers remained at the controls of the plane, "but must have judged that the passengers were only seconds from overcoming them."

    The commission said the hijackers' destination was Washington. It praised the courage of the passengers and said their struggle "saved the lives of countless others, and may have saved either the Capitol or the White House from destruction."

    The Associated Press reported last year that the government's theory about Flight 93 — described by FBI (news - web sites) Director Robert Mueller to congressional investigators in closed testimony — also concluded that passengers grappled with terrorists but never actually got into the cockpit.




    I am sure that many of us have wondered what really happened on that flight that day, but why publish this? Some of these familys who lost loved ones that day believed that they died trying to help others, thus making them heros. I guess I fell that this could have stayed behind closed doors. Why do this?
    French Fries!

  2. #2
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    I'm confused. I read the article as proof that the passengers were heroes: they forced the mission to be ditched, the ultimate sacrifice.
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  3. #3
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    I can see what you mean, but...

    they DID die trying to save others.
    what's the difference if the passengers crashed the jet or the highjackers? mission accomplished

  4. #4
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    Who gives a fuck whether they made it to the cockpit or not? They are all heros, and they saved lives. Thank you and god bless.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by BlurredElevens
    Who gives a fuck whether they made it to the cockpit or not? They are all heros, and they saved lives. Thank you and god bless.
    uh oh.
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  6. #6
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    Good points. I guess I read something into it that may have not been there.

    I dunno know though, I've always been under the impression that they made it into the cockpit and fought with the terrorists, now I'm hearing otherwise.
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by LCC
    Good points. I guess I read something into it that may have not been there.

    I dunno know though, I've always been under the impression that they made it into the cockpit and fought with the terrorists, now I'm hearing otherwise.
    I think it sounds like they did "handle a few terrorists" (4 or 5 per flight, right?) but didn't get the last too. Heroes for sure!
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by LCC
    I dunno know though, I've always been under the impression that they made it into the cockpit and fought with the terrorists, now I'm hearing otherwise.
    What's the difference between in and out of the cockpit?
    They fought them to try to get in - hero enough for me.

  9. #9
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    Thumbs up

    Originally posted by Buster Highmen
    I'm confused. I read the article as proof that the passengers were heroes: they forced the mission to be ditched, the ultimate sacrifice.

    Agreed for sure, there are heros and their families should be proud. Who knows what could have happened had they not done what they did.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by optics
    What's the difference between in and out of the cockpit?
    They fought them to try to get in - hero enough for me.
    I really hope nobody thinks that I don't feel these people were not heros. But somewhere there is a mother without a son, a wife without a husband and a child without a father (and vice versa), who always thought their loved ones might have made it into the cockpit for the struggle. I guess I just kind of feel that this would have been nice to keep the way it was.

    The headline could have just as easily be written: Flight 93 Passengers Responsible for Bringing Down Hijacked Plane.
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  11. #11
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    Who the hell wrote that headline!

    His head should roll, or at least lock him in a room with some of the relatives for him to justify it.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Buster Highmen
    I'm confused. I read the article as proof that the passengers were heroes: they forced the mission to be ditched, the ultimate sacrifice.
    Ditto.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by LCC
    I really hope nobody thinks that I don't feel these people were not heros. But somewhere there is a mother without a son, a wife without a husband and a child without a father (and vice versa), who always thought their loved ones might have made it into the cockpit for the struggle. I guess I just kind of feel that this would have been nice to keep the way it was.

    The headline could have just as easily be written: Flight 93 Passengers Responsible for Bringing Down Hijacked Plane.
    No one is mad at you. We're just mad at the twits of the AP.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by LCC
    I guess I just kind of feel that this would have been nice to keep the way it was.
    I think I'd want the facts, and wouldn't consider anyone any less of a hero just b/c they didn't make it past the cockpit door. They did their best and risked their lives. That == hero.

  15. #15
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    Heroes!
    "Steve McQueen's got nothing on me" - Clutch

  16. #16
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    What a horribly misleading headline.
    How on earth did that headline come out of that article?
    Someone at the AP needs to get a new job.
    Good runs when you get them.

  17. #17
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    Heroes inspire.

    They're definitely heroes -- every time I fly, I feel safe knowing that myself and a bunch of other passengers won't stand idly by if the flight is taken over.

    No way, no how.
    Balls Deep in the 'Ho

  18. #18
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    Interesting, the "so much for the Heroes" part isn't there anymore...

    and 13, I'm w/ you, take that shit into your own hands - what do you have to loose? I know it's easy to say that safe and sound on the ground, but I like to think that I'd give 'em hell.
    Aliases: B-Dub, B-Dubya, & B. White

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by FollowMe
    Interesting, the "so much for the Heroes" part isn't there anymore...

    and 13, I'm w/ you, take that shit into your own hands - what do you have to loose? I know it's easy to say that safe and sound on the ground, but I like to think that I'd give 'em hell.
    I usually ask for seats in the front/rear of a passenger section for a reason.
    Balls Deep in the 'Ho

  20. #20
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    That headline = sack o' crap. Everyone that stood up to fight was a hero. They kept the terrorists from succeeding. I'm pretty sure I'd do the same thing, considering I'll never believe a hijacker telling me I'm gonna be ok if I sit down and shut up.

    I'm really wondering why it took them that long to determine this since it was really apparent. The passengers never took control of the cockpit; if they did, there proabaly would have been radio contact with ground controllers "Uh, we've just been hijacked and us passengers beat those fuckers down. How do we fly this thing?"
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  21. #21
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    If y'all have the time, download & read the 9/11 commission report.

    The best account of all 4 hijackings that I've read is contained within, and it answered a few questions I had about the hijackers' tactics.
    Balls Deep in the 'Ho

  22. #22
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    That headline completely misses the mark for accuracy - those people were nothing short of America's finest and did put up a hell of a fight. Inspiring. God bless them all.

    Thanks for posting the article.
    Who, me?

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Buster Highmen
    I'm confused. I read the article as proof that the passengers were heroes: they forced the mission to be ditched, the ultimate sacrifice.
    Agreed.

  24. #24
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    C'mon, LCC, admit it. YOU added the "- so Much For the Heros" part, didn't you? The AP is my company's #1 competitor. Had they written that headline (as it is ..*ahem* quoted in your post header) then I would certainly have heard about it at work. The crowing would have drowned out the bitching... for once.

    I'm not trying to bitch-slap you. Mistakes, HONEST mistakes, are made every day. That's why I get a daily e-mail from my editor saying "be careful." Not 'cause he's afraid for my safety - but for his ASS.

    Ask Red Baron about Editorial Oversight.

  25. #25
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    Talking

    Originally posted by Tippster
    C'mon, LCC, admit it. YOU added the "- so Much For the Heros" part, didn't you? The AP is my company's #1 competitor. Had they written that headline (as it is ..*ahem* quoted in your post header)
    You'd like to think they'd have spelt it 'heroes' too...

    Those guys went out fighting and deserve some sort of statue in Washington.

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