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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    back in NorCal
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    928

    How to Beat Paypal/eBay 21-Day Hold Policy?

    I usually hook up maggots with the good gear, but I sometimes use eBay to sell consumer-DIN bindings, etc.

    Paypal/eBay just applied its somewhat new 21-day hold policy on me as a seller. If I wait for payment to clear on Day21, it will suck for the buyer to wait for me to ship on Day22. How do the wise maggots get around this dumbass policy when using eBay?

    MY CASE:
    I sold bindings on eBay for $125-ish. I received the buyer's Paypal payment with status "On Hold - Ship now". I looked into it, and it's a somewhat new 21-day hold policy enacted by eBay/Paypal cooperating together (same ownership, duh). Paypal claims the intent of this policy is to reduce eBay buyer claims of "item not received".

    I am a 7.5-year eBay member, 100% positive feedback for 87 transactions. Buyer is a 30-day eBay member with ZERO feedback. By holding his payment away from me and telling me to ship, Paypal seems to be protecting him from me, which makes no sense considering our history records. Instead, in cases like mine, I surmise Paypal's intent is to protect itself from an increase in fraudulent buyers who perform a credit card chargeback after receiving the item, because I figure Paypal takes the loss on some of those cases if the seller quits Paypal/eBay instead of making funds available for Paypal to seize unjustly.

    Should I refund the held payment (cancel transaction) and send the buyer a new Paypal invoice marked as "Services/Other", so that Paypal cannot identify the new payment as an eBay auction, thereby excluding the new payment from the eBay hold policy? However, this solution would not prevent the possibility of credit card chargeback (if my buyer is indeed fraudulent).

    Or should I demand a different kind of non-reversible form of payment from this zero-feedback buyer, who has done nothing suspicious. For all I know he's an honest eBayer, just brand new with no history yet. Maybe personal check and ship after it clears (not fast, but quicker than 21 days)?

    .

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    back in NorCal
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    928
    If anyone really wants to read the policy, here it is, as published by Paypal:
    ----------------------------

    Policy for payment holds for eBay items
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What is a payment hold for eBay items?
    It is a hold that PayPal places on a payment you receive for an item you sold on eBay. The amounts held will be shown as "Pending" in your PayPal account. You still have access to all other funds in your PayPal account.

    Why are my payments being held?
    Payment holds for eBay items are an effort to increase marketplace safety. We hold payments when we suspect a transaction may be risky. Here are the most common instances in which an eBay item payment may be held:


    You have been an eBay member for less than 6 months, and you sell an item for more than $100
    You have an eBay feedback score of less than 100, and you sell an item for more than $100
    You have a buyer dissatisfaction percentage* greater than 5%
    You have an average DSR of less than 4.5
    You have received fewer than 20 Detailed Seller Ratings in the last 12 months
    You are listing your item in a high-risk category such as gift certificates, video games, cell phones, computers, or consumer electronics.

    When will PayPal release the hold?
    Your funds will be released when one of the following occurs:


    The buyer leaves you positive feedback
    3 days pass after proof the item was delivered**
    21 days pass without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed on the transaction

    We may hold the funds longer if your buyer files a dispute, claim, chargeback, reversal or has otherwise taken action to dispute the transaction.

    Learn more about the PayPal policy for payment holds for eBay items.

    * Buyer dissatisfaction percentage is measured by adding negative events as a percentage of your transactions. Negative events include negative & neutral Feedback, Detailed Seller Ratings scores of 2 or less, and Item Not Received or Significantly Not As Described disputes.

    ** This applies to US domestic transactions that are shipped by USPS, FedEx, or UPS and either (i) use PayPal shipping labels to ship items or (ii) upload tracking information to PayPal via the transaction details page. If a payment is being held, it will be shown as "Pending" in your PayPal account until it is released.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, CO
    Posts
    181
    Send the bindings via a trackable carrier (even USPS delivery confirmation works), provide the tracking info to paypal, once the tracking info proves delivery they give you your money.

    I personally don't see the big deal. As long as you send the item and provide legit tracking info, you'll get your money. ???

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MT
    Posts
    891
    I ran into this problem this summer after selling a wheelset. I got around it by contacting my buyer and having him give me positive feedback before the items were received. I needed the money to make a payment, and I was able to provide the buyer with a tracking number.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    982
    i had a transaction blow up over this very thing. i paid for an item same day, but seller didn't understand that the hold was per the new paypal/eghey policy not something to do with my cash payment.

    long story short, i had to contest the auction because of no shipping and poor communication from seller. Way i look at it now is sort of like ebay escrow, albeit skewed slightly in favor of the buyers.

    if you wait till the 22nd day on all of your ebay transactions to ship you'd likely run into similar problems AND once an item is disputed funds aren't released until the dispute is resolved.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    back in NorCal
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    928
    Quote Originally Posted by madmike View Post
    ...As long as you send the item and provide legit tracking info, you'll get your money. ???
    That's a comforting statement if anyone can back it up. How many successful trials have you guys witnessed under the new 21-day hold? How many for Canada-to-Canada shipping (my case)? This solution is fine to me if Paypal will not pull bullshit against me (Paypal has been acting very suspicious lately in our communications).

    Any other experiences out there?

    Paypal has misrepresented the intent/spirit of the policy to me over web, email, and phone, changing their story each time. With me, Paypal has used the language and tactics of scammers. The logical suspicion is that Paypal trusts me, yet fears buyer chargeback fraud, where the credit card company is used as the unknowing accomplice, and Paypal is willing pay off that accomplice in order to preserve that relationship, but instead of Paypal preserving that profitable relationship by paying with their own funds, Paypal will forsake honest sellers by paying with the seller's held funds. What other explanation is there for a 7.5-year eBay seller with perfect record?

    .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, CO
    Posts
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    That's a comforting statement if anyone can back it up. How many successful trials have you guys witnessed under the new 21-day hold?
    I'll let you know later this week. I just shipped something today to a buyer, so it should be done by the end of the week.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51
    I just went through the same thing selling a pair of skis. If it is through Ebay, you get your money when the buyer leaves positive feedback. I got mine the same day that I received the feedback. You may be able to work something out with the buyer.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    the Low Sierra
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    6,476
    solution = do not shop on ebay + do not use PayPal

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    461
    Madmike is on point. Ship to the confirmed address (marked eligible for seller protection on transaction details page) and make sure you can later provide paypal with a link that will show the item was delivered. PayPal doesn't trust you. If shit hits the fan though they've gotta play by their rules. Learn the hoops and jump through them to cover your ass.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,194
    Yeah, Ebay just sucks and this is one of the many reasons why.

    However, I can confirm that the new policy works. Just print the shipping label and do everything through ebay, and it will have everything linked to the sale. Then, your $$ will be released when A. you get positive feedback, or B. the item is confirmed as delivered.

    It sucks, but it works. Don't worry about the new buyer, you're both protected.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Up on the hill where they do the boogie
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    6,159
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    Paypal has misrepresented the intent/spirit of the policy to me over web, email, and phone, changing their story each time. With me, Paypal has used the language and tactics of scammers. The logical suspicion is that Paypal trusts me, yet fears buyer chargeback fraud, where the credit card company is used as the unknowing accomplice, and Paypal is willing pay off that accomplice in order to preserve that relationship, but instead of Paypal preserving that profitable relationship by paying with their own funds, Paypal will forsake honest sellers by paying with the seller's held funds. What other explanation is there for a 7.5-year eBay seller with perfect record?
    There is none.

    Paypal is acting as a bank, but isn't governed by any federal laws or regulatory statues applicable to banks. They sit on your money for 21 days so they can make buku interest off it. Add that to the interest of hundreds of thousands of other $100+ transactions compounded over weeks at a time, and you're talking serious money.

    And there's the chargeback thing too, but that's really a secondary reason.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    EastBumble
    Posts
    251

    Don't need to pay ebays inflated prices

    Not quite true...
    Quote Originally Posted by bfree View Post
    Yeah, Ebay just sucks and this is one of the many reasons why.

    However, I can confirm that the new policy works. Just print the shipping label and do everything through ebay, and it will have everything linked to the sale. Then, your $$ will be released when A. you get positive feedback, or B. the item is confirmed as delivered.

    It sucks, but it works. Don't worry about the new buyer, you're both protected.
    Just had the same thing happen on a pair of boards to Edwards, did my shipping through FedEx which has been ruling lately... Uploaded Fedex track through link at paypal transaction details page. Payments cleared 2.5 days after receipt.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    722
    When was this policy implemented? I haven't yet had to deal with this.
    The coefficent of desireability is inversly proportionate to the degree of availability.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    retired
    Posts
    12,670
    just ship it, provide the trakcing number and ask the buyer to leave positive feedback as soon as the item is recieved, so you can also leave positive feedback.

    if you have a tracking number paypal will not fuck you over for sure. i have gone through numerous disputes, and this is ALWAYS the case. as soon as positive feedback is received or 5 days after the item arrives (not true out of the coutnry - gotta wait the whole 21, but it WILL hit your account as long as there is not a complaint). you get your money, whichever is first.

    its all good, i have had alot of ebay action recently and its all worked out w/o a problem.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    back in Whistler :)
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    1,064
    Same thing happened to me a few weeks back. Youll get your money in 21 days or when the buyer leaves you positive feedback.

    They should concentrate their efforts on peps who have no feedback or bad feedback as sellers. I sold like 100 items on ebay before they implemented this policy on me, what a bunch of dumbasses.... They did it once to me and never again since then. I think its a one time thing if your a good seller.
    Just fucking point it and shut up

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
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    6,289
    This doesn't really apply to your current transaction, but from the paypal policy posted above, it sounds like this generally won't be a problem if you have a feedback score over 100.

    You can set up a few dummy auctions for $.01. Get maggots to bid on them, and everyone leaves positive feedback. Of course, you just mark the finished auctions as "payment received" and you eat the $.25 or so of listing fees. That'll get your feedback score over 100 pretty quickly and easily, and the bidding mags get the bonus of some positive feedback in return.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    3
    Only stupid people will ship with PayPal holding funds. I have worked with PayPal for 8 years now. They started with the charge backs if a buyer says that they did not get the item or if they just did not like it once they received it. PayPal would take the funds out of your account. I was told by several sellers that PayPal was fine and they had not trouble, but then little by little they all ran into trouble. PayPal then started to freeze accounts if they got a hair up their ass and you had to send in every piece of personal information and then some that most banks did not ask for and then wait for them to unfreeze the $. Or wait 180 days for them to issue you a check after they closed the account. I joined a class action law suit against PayPal and we won. Not a lot but I got 38$ out of the deal as a settlement for the thousands of us that joined. Then PayPal started to freeze or close accounts if they did not like what you purchased, this included ammunition, firearms, Nazi items from ww2, KKK items historical or otherwise. I know one Bill Shea from Mass. who has a business dealing in ww2 collectables, he used to take PayPal and I warned him that there would be trouble. He said the same crap as many here "I have had no problems" then one day he gets an email from PayPal saying they noticed that amongst his inventory he has Nazi items. He will have to discontinue selling these or they will shut his account down. He proceeded to tell them where they could put it and the fastest way to do so. I had one PayPal payment where I sold a German iron cross form ww2 and the buyer tried to get out of payment by complaining, PayPal said the item was hateful and that they were giving the funds back and that they were to destroy the item and I had to pay. Ya right. I never send anything until the money is in my bank and then removed to a second account safe away from PayPal hands. I replied to PayPal to shove it up their arse. Anyone who sends anything before removing funds from PayPal is asking to get the dry slide.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Three-O-Three
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    12,015
    Like a few others have already confirmed- if you use the tracking information with UPS/USPS/FedEx, you'll get the hold released as soon as its marked "delivered". Otherwise, just keep good communication with the buyer and ask him to leave positive feedback as soon as (or before) the item is received.

    I've done this a few times and received my money way before the 21-day holding period.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vacationland
    Posts
    970
    3 days after tracked package is delivered your cash is realeased, or + feedback is left. Just had a flurry of selling on eGay and learned about this after being a 6 year user.

    Poorly communicated process on behalf of ebay/paypal but you'll get your money. Just call PayPal customer service in Bangladesh and talk to 'Kevin' he'll tell you how it works.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Posts
    635
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    That's a comforting statement if anyone can back it up. How many successful trials have you guys witnessed under the new 21-day hold? How many for Canada-to-Canada shipping (my case)? This solution is fine to me if Paypal will not pull bullshit against me (Paypal has been acting very suspicious lately in our communications).
    I have been in your position. For skis shipping out of North Van via Canada Post. This would be back in November. One set of skis to Calgary for instance and one set to Utah about a week apart. Both payments were held. On both I had Canada Post tracking. I emailed the buyers repeatedly asking that they leave feedback (as doing so releases the funds) since I could see via tracking the boards were delivered. No response and no feedback left (both did many days later).

    Long story short, I ended up calling PayPal customer service. The first time I called the rep I spoke with was very helpful. I just gave her my Can Post tracking # and she knew where to look it up (I didn't have to tell her to go to Can Post website, duh) and she released my funds. For the boards to Utah the rep refused since it was Can Post and not one of the carriers that links to PayPal (or whatever). I kind of lost it, but was civil and asked for a supervisor. Supervisor released my funds after getting tracking info from me.

    I think it's a load of bullshit. PayPal and Ebay are doing their best to try and control fraud, but it's the nature of the beast. There are a lot of daft scammers out there but there are far more retarded buyers.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    3

    paypal sucks ass

    I have 4 sales on hold with paypal. I will not send a god dam thing until the funds are in my account. Fuck paypal and ebay. I have also cancled my CC so ebay will not see a god dam dime for my auctions. eBay has screwed me every time I set up an account and I have shut them out and not payed them a dime in over 20 accounts. Fuck these idiots. Anyone who pays paypal and or ebay are idiots.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    3
    You fucking retards who take the dry slide from paypal and tell others it is ok are enablers. Its fucktards like you who keep paypal and ebay fucking sellers. Sellers can not leave neg. feed back, have to wait 21 days to get funding, and have no choice. But you fucking idiots keep telling us it is all ok and to just roll with the flow. Fuck ebay and fuck paypal.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1
    There used to be a way to get around this ...untill 2 weeks ago.. I used to give the buyer a refund for 0.01 and the full amount used to come back into the account. But it don't work anymore ...I'm Pissed!!!!!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Tahorado
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    24,077
    Quote Originally Posted by BSS View Post
    There is none.

    Paypal is acting as a bank, but isn't governed by any federal laws or regulatory statues applicable to banks. They sit on your money for 21 days so they can make buku interest off it. Add that to the interest of hundreds of thousands of other $100+ transactions compounded over weeks at a time, and you're talking serious money.

    And there's the chargeback thing too, but that's really a secondary reason.
    It's not like they're just sitting on your money.
    They're keeping the Amurican dream alive by investing it...in things like....... mortgage based derivatives.
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