I tried on most of the new AT boots today

**srsosbso** · 11-01-2008, 06:18 PM

This probably does NOT warrrant a new thread, but there are so many threads going about the new AT boots already that it has become hard to keep track of what info is where. Maybe they could be consolidated somehow? Anyway, I don't think there is one thread that covers all of these models so I'm starting a new one. Crucify me as you see fit.

I tried on the following boots today- BD factor, BD method, Dynafit zzeus, Scarpa skookum, Garmont radium. (Yes, it is raining here. I also got the laundry done.) These are most of the big player/options for the new crop of AT boots with dynafit compatibility. I'd tried the zzeus and radium on before. For comparison, I have skied Lange race boots in the past, and, most recently, salomon gun boots. I think a flex somewhere between the langes and the guns would make for a nice soft snow boot- resort or backcountry. (I am talking about forward flex here- can't really comment on lateral stiffness as I didn't ski any of these boots today. Just a shop demo.)

1) BD method- way softer than I was expecting/hoping for. This boot is much softer than any of the others I tried today. It is softer than my salomon gun by a good margin. You'd have to really like soft boots to like these. Given the significant weight of these boots, I'm not exactly sure why you'd choose them over other equally soft but lighter options. I'll comment on fit below, as they fit just like the factors.

2) BD factor- this is an alpine ski boot with a walk mode. Very nice. I'd ski them anywhere. Stiffer than my guns, not as stiff as a lange. Maybe 110 on the proverbial scale? Smmmmooth flexing. Fabulous walk mode- good range and very free-hinging. My feet are widish in the front and narrow in the heel-and these fit my feet well. They really felt they could be fit comfortably and still perform well. The boa gizmo takes forever to crank up to tightness but felt nice.

3) Dynafit Zzeus- very similiar stiffness to the factor (and, obviously, way stiffer than the methods) but more progressive- ie. softer near the neutral point but then stiffens up a LOT as you flex forward. I preferred the BD flex, but it depends what you like. Narrower forefoot than the BD- didn't fit me as well, but to each (foot) his own (boot.) Walk mode not as great in range and not as free-moving as the BD's, and noisy (squeeky)- just the sort of thing to make you absolutely NUTS on a long skin track.

4) Scarpa Skookum- I flat out didn't like these. Huge volume around the heel/ankle, wierd feeling flex (non-overlap), and the boot lowers would bulge out to the sides if I really flexed them hard. Maybe the flex is better if the boot fits your foot, but I didn't like these at all.

5) Garmont Radium- very similiar flex to the factor and zzeus. Fit was tighter around the toes than the BD boots with equally good heel holddown, but more volume around the ankle it seemed. Of course, this is pre-liner-cooking. Noticebly lighter, even just handling them, than the factors. Walk mode similiar in range to the BD boots, but not quite as free hinging. Maybe would loosen up with time/use? No sole swap option for use with alpine binders.

Summary?

If I wanted a one pair o' boots quiver and planned to ski mostly inbounds with the occassional bit of slack-country, I'd buy the factors in a heartbeat. Honestly, this boot would be a reasonable choice for someone who doesn't tour, just for the walk mode in the lodge or liftline or schlepping from the parking lot.

I would not even consider the methods- which is a surprise because I thought I'd end up in these boots. They are only 70 grams lighter than the factors, and just too soft in my opinion. I found myself thinking, "Why would I bother with these?"

I didn't like the skookums fit or flex, but that is mostly just personal opinion.

The zzeus would be a good choice of you wanted a narrow last boot. I suspect they would ski much like the factor, though I didn't like the flex as well. I don't think they'll tour as well because the walk mode didn't seem as good. If you have the new dynafit manaslu skis you really MUST get these, because they match.

The radium is a very nice AT boot, and is a half pound lighter PER BOOT than the factor. It is very nearly as stiff. It's walk mode is nearly as good. If you don't need alpine binding compatibility, and these fit you, this is a helluva good option.

**jondrums** · 11-01-2008, 07:11 PM

thanks for the in depth review - great to have the direct comparo

**schwerty** · 11-01-2008, 07:19 PM

I tried on the Factors, Methods, Radiums and Zzeus today as well. You pretty much nailed it from what I can tell.

**millfiger** · 11-01-2008, 07:24 PM

After using an Intuition liner for the last 4 years, I can say that the Factor liner just does not cut it. Plan on buying a new liner or using one of your Intuitions with the boot in my opinion. The shell itself is quality, and the walk mode is truly a walk mode.

**JoeStrummer** · 11-01-2008, 07:37 PM

I skied the Skookums today and liked them, hard to tell from low angled manmade groomers in 40 degree air but they felt much like any other AT boot I've skied. I think anyone looking for something revolutionary in AT boots from this years crop is drinking the marketing Koolaid.

**srsosbso** · 11-01-2008, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by JoeStrummer

I skied the Skookums today... I think anyone looking for something revolutionary in AT boots from this years crop is drinking the marketing Koolaid.

That was my feeling just in the shop today with the skookum- that they felt like an AT boot, which is not what I am looking for. Though I didn't ski them, everything else I had on today felt very close to an alpine boot. I suspect it's the overlap shell.

**Wetdog** · 11-01-2008, 08:21 PM

Nice review srsosbso. I posted in the Factor vs Radium thread, page three, my thoughts on the same boots. Similar conclusions to you, but I actually really liked the Skookums, apart from lower buckles. I must have just a little wider forefoot than you because, while I felt like I have too much room in the Spirit 4, the Skookum was just about right, with the Zzeus and Radium being too tight in the toebox.

The one boot I was not able to try was the Method. I too thought that might be the ticket for me, but your observations are interesting concerning its soft flex. The factors were really great, though heavier than what I am looking for, but they could easily replace my alpine boots. They felt a bit like a Lange in terms of fit and flex and I would grab a pair if I didn't already have that field covered with my Endorphins.

Joe Strummer, after skiing the Skookum would you recommend it? It is my front runner for a Dynafit AT boot. Some reviews have criticized its lateral stiffness on firmer surfaces which isn't as much of a concern to me as I would probably mostly be skiing it in soft snow, but as you mentioned you were skiing groomers in it, I thought I would ask.

**Name Redacted** · 11-02-2008, 08:44 AM

Anyone tried the Technica AT boots yet? Just curious....

**AKbruin** · 11-02-2008, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Anyone tried the Technica AT boots yet? Just curious....

I have. It has a very low cuff and is pretty damn soft. I wouldn't use them to drive a big ski. The fit is closer to Garmont (snug) than Scarpa (roomy).

**deeppo** · 11-02-2008, 09:30 AM

Just wondering what size foot and boots you tried. I find scarpa runs almost a full size larger then garmont(at least in the past)
deeppo

**srsosbso** · 11-02-2008, 09:33 AM

Radium, Factor, Method, Zzeus- all 26
Scarpa- 25.5. Length okay, swimming in the volume. When I did the shell-only length test, I swear I could have done a '3' (as my sons would say) INSIDE the boot.

**StroupSkier** · 11-02-2008, 09:37 AM

How does the ZZues fit compare to the ZZero4?

**stuckathuntermtn** · 11-02-2008, 09:40 AM

would you say the zzues is like a 98mm last, a la the guns?

**JoeStrummer** · 11-02-2008, 10:10 AM

I think the Skookum is a well-made boot, as it should be for $700. None of the new AT boots are up there with the wheel, fire, or polio vaccine. If you already have AT boots I don't see a compelling reason to update unless you are a gear whore, like me. If you are new to AT boots I think the choices are great.

Deeppo - I am a street shoe 30, a Garmont Megaride 29, and a Skookum 28. The Skookum 28 required some moderate liner work but no shell punching or anything funky.

Wetdog - As I said, if you already have AT boots I don't know if it's worth 6 or 7 bills. I tried to edge really hard, make the boot drive the turn, etc. They felt fine but not significantly better than Megarides. As I said, my testing was fairly limited, if we get any snow this week I might hike a 14er and give you my impressions on the "touring" phase of AT.

**Cheesestoff** · 11-02-2008, 10:14 AM

when you compared tour mode, did you have the upper buckles undone? I tried all the overlap boots on a few months ago and found the walk modes all very similar with the upper buckles undone (which i do everytime anyway). The factor was actually the worst of the three as the upper shell won't rotate behind vertical.

**wilcox510** · 11-02-2008, 10:22 AM

I think the Zzeus are actually pretty wide, much wider than any of the Garmont boots (i'd say a lot wider than 98mm). Regarding the fit of the Skookum, I'm pretty sure the lower shell of the Skookumi s identical to the Spirit 4, it's just that it comes with the shim to go under the liner to take up room.

**StroupSkier** · 11-02-2008, 10:25 AM

The ZZero4 is wider than the Garmont boots, but I don't know about the ZZues. I would think they would be made from the same last, but i can't find one to try on.

I can't get my foot in a Garmont.

**marshalolson** · 11-02-2008, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Anyone tried the Technica AT boots yet? Just curious....

the current technica at boot is a rebadged lowa: check around about the rodeo and evo... lots of info on the website. low and soft boots. not for the hard charger. think ski mountaineering.

rumor mill on a new technica at boot for next season though.

**srsosbso** · 11-02-2008, 10:38 AM

Stroup- I haven't tried the zzero, so I can't help with the fit comparison.

Stuck- The zzeus were narrower in the forefoot than my guns, but of course the guns have been cooked.

cheese- I had the buckles done up in tour mode. I thought the factors were great, the radiums good, the zzeus okay.

I gotta respectfully disagree with Joe about the new AT boots. I have hated every AT boot I've ever put on, because I hate the way they flex, and so I have either tele'd or suffered with alpine boots. Part of the reason I wen from Langes to Guns was to make the touring tolerable. Though I haven't skied any of them yet, my impression is that these overlap AT boots will ski like alpine boots but have a walk mode and dynafit compatibility, and that's why I'll be buying a pair of one of 'em.

**Wetdog** · 11-02-2008, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by deeppo

Just wondering what size foot and boots you tried. I find scarpa runs almost a full size larger then garmont(at least in the past)
deeppo

Scarpas seem larger width wise, but length is the same. I'm the same shell size in a Garmont as a Scarpa, yet to get the fit in the fore foot with the Garmont, I have to go up a shell size, which make it too long and my heel slides around.

**BurnHard** · 11-02-2008, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by JoeStrummer

I skied the Skookums today and liked them, hard to tell from low angled manmade groomers in 40 degree air but they felt much like any other AT boot I've skied. I think anyone looking for something revolutionary in AT boots from this years crop is drinking the marketing Koolaid.

Damnit. You trying to kill my anticipation???

Like I said in another thread, I tried the Skookums on and they were significantly different (better) than any previously used AT boot (specifically, Denali TT). However, I haven't skied them yet ... I really hope they ski as well as they fit me. I'm hoping for a much stiffer boot than the Denali TT, more comfortable, walk mode & sole as good as the Denali, plus Dynafit inserts... Is that too much to ask????

Gonna have to try the BD Factor, seems to be *THE* boot of the year. Hopefully Larry carries that one.

**JoeStrummer** · 11-02-2008, 05:32 PM

Srsbsoso - I've never skied in alpine boots so I can only imagine that most AT boots seem deficient. Ignorance is bliss, in my case.

Bernardo - I think the Skookum is a great boot but it's more evolutionary than revolutionary. I thought the same about the ZZeus, haven't skied an Axon, haven't tried any of the BD boots because I have a weird hangup about Chinese ski boots. I like to imagine my ski boots are all made by Gepetto types in the Italian mountains. And I'll have some more ski time on both the ZZeus and Skookum later this week so can toss in another two cents at that point.

**jrosendahl** · 11-02-2008, 06:38 PM

Tried the factor today,
I felt like it had poor contact with all but the top of my shin, and most importantly the walk mode (while awesome going forward) does not go back far enough to stand up strait. I can't imagine loosing that ability since I am old and out of shape and need to stand around and rest alot. That and really the boa thing sucked. Damn shame really since I really liked the fit.

Hopefully the zzueus will be better.

**BurnHard** · 11-02-2008, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by JoeStrummer

Srsbsoso - I've never skied in alpine boots so I can only imagine that most AT boots seem deficient. Ignorance is bliss, in my case.

Bernardo - I think the Skookum is a great boot but it's more evolutionary than revolutionary. I thought the same about the ZZeus, haven't skied an Axon, haven't tried any of the BD boots because I have a weird hangup about Chinese ski boots. I like to imagine my ski boots are all made by Gepetto types in the Italian mountains. And I'll have some more ski time on both the ZZeus and Skookum later this week so can toss in another two cents at that point.

FKNA @ Geppetto!

Will look forward to another review from you on the ZZeus and Skookums.

**pjt** · 11-02-2008, 09:18 PM

Another perspective...
I tried on (but have not yet skied) most of the boots mentioned by the original poster. I have a wider forefoot and narrow bony heel and wear 11.5/12 street shoes. I have been skiing Scarpa Denali TTs and Lasers for the past 3 seasons in a size 28 (with a fairly thick Superfeet Kork footbed). The Spirit 4 would be my safe purchase since I find it similar to the Denali in fit but I'm intrigued by the new alpine overlap style AT boots and I'm a bit tired of the Scarpa ratchet style buckles. I'll be skiing these inbounds and winter touring. I usually tour with the cuff buckles unbuckled. I found:

Radium... I wanted these to fit. Nice design. I like the upper buckle locking catches or whatever you call them. I like that you can take all the hardware off with a hex key for repairs and replacement. Decent forward flex stiffness for what I'm looking for. Walk mode was nice with the cuff unbuckled. But way too narrow around the toes and the heel pocket was too wide regardless of what I think thermofitting or shell grinding/punching could accomplish. I tried different liners in it and could not make it work.

Factor... Stiffest forward flex of the lot from what I could tell. Walk mode was great flexing forward but unfortunately stops at vertical going backward. This boot had the freest walk mode with the buckles buckled at least flexing forward but I would still tour with them unbuckled for the freest motion possible. Wider toe box and nice narrow heel which works well for me. Top buckles would come down a little too hard over my foot though and the Boa liner is a solution to a problem I don't have... seems unnecessary and a little annoying. Definitely the heaviest of the bunch which is a turn off to me.

Method... similar fit to the Factor. Noticeable softer. Same Boa liner as the Factor, still on the heavier side, and fit issues over the top of my foot.

Scarpa Typhoon... I would want the Skookum but the shop only carries the Typhoon. Assuming the fit is similar, which I don't know for sure, I found the lower to feel similar to the Spirit 4 which is to say higher volume which would work for me. But with the upper cuff, I found concentrated pressure on both my lower shins - too much so - despite changing footbed thicknesses or liners from other boots to adjust height. Buckles are ok but the other boots listed here seem to have nicer hardware. Walk mode was ok. Overall just not into the boot despite being a long time Scarpa fan with my current AT boots and my tele boots.

Zzeus... narrowish toe box but not as narrow as the Radium. Nice heel pocket for my foot. Flex a little softer than the Factors perhaps but stiffer than the Methods, maybe similar to the Radiums in my opinion. It will be interesting to see how the boot flexes in the cold since its made of PU plastic. I found the walk mode, at least in terms of range of motion fore to aft, to be the best. Yeah not as, I don't know, soft feeling going forward as the Factor, but wider range of motion back to front. I could really articulate my ankle. Maybe drive my car in these it seems. I would tour in these with the cuff buckles opened. Weight-wise, lighter than the Method and heavier than the Radium. This boot seems to fit me the best out of the overlap styles. What sold me was sticking a Scarpa Intuition liner in it and favorably noticing how much more room I had in the forefoot so I know what is possible in the fit (I also tried this with all the other boots but it was most favorably noticeable with the Zzeus). I think the Zzeus liner is thicker, narrower and lower volume than the Intutions though definitely a stouter liner. Anyway, the Intuition liner felt great in the Zzeus to me. And, at least according to Lou Dawson's scales and my suspect math, sticking an Intuition liner in the Zzeus puts it at about the same weight as the Scarpa Spirit 4 which is a benchmark weight for what I'm looking for for an inbounds and bc AT boot.

So I bought the Zzeus. Size 27.5. Yeah a 'peformance fit' for sure given my 11.5/12 feet but I think it will be nice once I get things dialed. The next size up, 28, put me in a bigger shell and it would be too big.

Hope that all helps.

edited to add touring buckle details.