ON3P Skis

[Sinecure]

Loved seeing the pics and story here and on Skibuilders.com

Nice work.

[telelebowski]

Long time lurker, first time caller. Absolute sick thread. Would also be interested in weight info for touring options.

[wren]

Weight for my pairs (Wrenegades and Great Scotts) is heavy. My Wrenegades were the 2nd pair out of the press and as Scott mentioned, he used a lot of epoxy in the first couple pairs, it shows. The Great Scotts are lighter, but I'm not really sure by how much. It is noticable. Comparing them to my old 192 Thugs, both were noticeably heavier. My guess is Scott will get better and better with each pair, eventually paring down the weight. They are bamboo cores so the potential for lightness is there. I need to find a proper scale and weight them before I get them mounted up, but my guess right now will have both pairs easily over 5 lbs per ski.

[iggyskier]

4 of my 5 pairs are mounted with s916s, which definitely doesn't make them feel any lighter either.

I will see if I can track down a suitable scale today and take some measurements.

Skis down the line will definitely change in weight as well. Right now we use 2.2mm wide edges that are standard 1.3mm thickness. Going to use the same 2.2mm width, but move up to a 1.8mm thickness with corresponding base material, which will add a bit more weight. Also likely changing the topsheets as we go from the sublimination process we used for the small volume of topsheets we used so far to screen printing (pending seeing how the topsheets turn out).

[wilis]

another view of these billygoats (left) and wrenegades (right)

[samcaylor]

Caylors at the Rage premier in Bellingham.

[BallsDeep]

Hell yes. Did you ever know that you're my hero?

[the vor]

WOW!!! That was one hell of a story. The sticks look fkn boss!! Probably the coolest non-TR thread ever. Congratulations on the labor of love. Hope things continue going well. Definetely interested to hear some weights, the shapes are killer.

[bio-smear]

Oh Entropy!

See you on saturday?

[be]

Read this post titled "Maybe you can't make money doing what you love" and was reminded of this thread: http://bit.ly/26jkOu

I've been in the ski industry before as part of a ski manufacturing start-up that tried to make a go of it. Its rough, and frankly, nearly impossible to make a real living making skis. Worse, it creates a vicious cycle where you're convincing yourself you're doing what you love, but in reality, you're doing less of what you love than ever before. I skied less when I was running a ski company than any season before or after. And made less money than at any other point in my career.

I now run a venture capital firm and see thousands of different business every year. There are certain industries where there simply isn't any money to be made and skiing, especially hard goods, is sadly one of them. I imagine you'll ski more and have a more fulfilling career as a doctor than you ever would trying to run a ski company. Not trying to be a stoke stealer here, but hoping to lend a little perspective from someone who's seen how this story ends...b

[iggyskier]

Read this post titled "Maybe you can't make money doing what you love" and was reminded of this thread: http://bit.ly/26jkOu

I've been in the ski industry before as part of a ski manufacturing start-up that tried to make a go of it. Its rough, and frankly, nearly impossible to make a real living making skis. Worse, it creates a vicious cycle where you're convincing yourself you're doing what you love, but in reality, you're doing less of what you love than ever before. I skied less when I was running a ski company than any season before or after. And made less money than at any other point in my career.

I now run a venture capital firm and see thousands of different business every year. There are certain industries where there simply isn't any money to be made and skiing, especially hard goods, is sadly one of them. I imagine you'll ski more and have a more fulfilling career as a doctor than you ever would trying to run a ski company. Not trying to be a stoke stealer here, but hoping to lend a little perspective from someone who's seen how this story ends...b

Thanks for the perspective. It is worthwhile to hear from people who have been in the industry and I do take everything said into account. Pretty sure you are speaking about Igneous right?

Definitely not going into this with dreams of grandeur. I know it is a tough industry and a tough road. At the same time, there are definitely small companies out there who are making it work.

In regards to having to work more than skiing, it is a job and that is what I expect. I don't need 100 day seasons. If I had good days, I would be happy with 35-40. And 35-40 is definitely more than I would be getting while in med school/residencies. And honestly, I love working with my hands and building stuff. Spending time building skis has never been something I disliked doing, even when there were week and weeks spent doing it 20+ hours a day. Hell, in school it was what I did for fun during the little bit of spare time I had.

I know it is not something where you just say hey, I have a ski company, I get to ski all the time. I am sure at times the lack of life outside the business will be a major pain in the ass.

But at the same time, I am hardly 22 and if there is anytime to give this a shot, now is that time. I can get by on pretty little money, I have no kids or wife to worry about, and don't have to worry about losing a shot at a career in medicine because that isn't going anywhere.

Plus, I know I can make some pretty damn good skis. I made these with a hand made press in a garage the size of my bedroom. I can only go up from here .

If what you have said is how this story ends, as it has for many companies out there, then that is how it ends.

But unless I take a chance, whose to say. I don't expect to get handed this on a platter. Definitely seen the struggles of Igneous, Pmgear, and other small indies and have no disillusions of what lies ahead. But this stuff is currently on my mind 24/7 right now and it would drive me insane to just sit back and let the possibility slip away.

[Jiehkevarri]

But this stuff is currently on my mind 24/7 right now and it would drive me insane to just sit back and let the possibility slip away.

I have a huge respect for this kind of thinking. Go ahead dude.

You have so many years still to come...for building up "real" career, having kids/family etc.

And thanks for sharing, this thread is great!

[philippeR]

My mind is blown.
Wow.

[b dubya]

holy fucking shit. graphics are totally sick, nice looking finish!

[Guddgulf]

I guess I got involved with this pretty late, but it's been an awesome opportunity to get to share in this. I've always dreamed of getting to ski on a pair of skis I helped to build, and that's become a reality with my Wrens. Scott is a huge inspiration to me, and should be to anyone who aspires to chase a dream, no matter what it costs.

After putting about 15-20 days on my Wrens this summer in Glacier Park, I feel fully confident in how kick ass these skis are. I've never ridden anything so lively and damp, and those who ride them this year will understand what I'm talking about. The proof is in the skis.

If you see me with mine at Alpental, Crystal, or Big Mtn, I'd be happy to loan them out. 317 bsl.

[iggyskier]

Here is a bump with some weights.

What needs to be noted here is the cores used changed between models, sometimes by a thickness of up to 30%, to give very different test flexes. Also used different width of carbon. Some I am sure the weights of the skis is varied. Most of my skis have a thicker core and wider carbon.

Some of these were measure with bindings. For the s916s, I used the weight 1460 grams. For the FKS 120, I used the weight 1050 grams. Not sure these are correct, but they are the only thing I have.

191cm Great Scott.
My pair, stiff flex, with s916
Average weight: 3971 grams per ski w/ s916
Average weight: 2511 grams per ski
Pair = 5.022 kg/pair or 11.07 lbs/pair.

I weighed one that was super stiff and it came in at 5.57 kg/pair, or 12.3 lbs/pair.

191cm Caylor.
My pair, medium flex (most were medium soft), with s916
Average weight: 3857 grams per ski w/ s916
Average weight: 2397 grams per ski
Pair = 4.8 kg/pair or 10.6 lbs/pair

191cm Wrenegade
My pair, stiff flex (most medium stiff), with s916
Average weight: 3760 grams per ski w/ s916
Average weight: 2300 grams per ski
Pair = 4.6 kg/pair or 10.15 lbs/pair

186cm Jeronimo
My pair, stiff flex (most medium), with s916
Average weight: 3804 grams per ski w/ s916
Average weight: 2344 grams per ski
Pair = 4.7 kg/pair or 10.23 lbs/pair

179 Blue Steele
My pair, stiff flex (most medium), with fks120
Average weight: 2815 grams per ski w/ fks120
Average weight: 1765 grams per ski
Pair = 3.5kg/pair or 7.7 lbs/pair

Hopefully these are accurate.

The weight on the skis will go up some when we go up from a 1.3mm thick edge and base material to 1.8mm. We will also be changing topsheets to something that will be screen printed instead of subliminated. But these will do for now.

[Dory Breaux]

Dude way too cool! Keep it up man I love seeing and hearing about stuff like this.

[telelebowski]

Thanks for the info. Skis look sick. Don't always tour so weight doesn't always have to be an issue. Keep up your dream, man. Won't ever be wishing you had more days in some office on your deathbed.

[TyWebb]

Read this post titled "Maybe you can't make money doing what you love" and was reminded of this thread: http://bit.ly/26jkOu

I've been in the ski industry before as part of a ski manufacturing start-up that tried to make a go of it. Its rough, and frankly, nearly impossible to make a real living making skis. Worse, it creates a vicious cycle where you're convincing yourself you're doing what you love, but in reality, you're doing less of what you love than ever before. I skied less when I was running a ski company than any season before or after. And made less money than at any other point in my career.

I now run a venture capital firm and see thousands of different business every year. There are certain industries where there simply isn't any money to be made and skiing, especially hard goods, is sadly one of them. I imagine you'll ski more and have a more fulfilling career as a doctor than you ever would trying to run a ski company. Not trying to be a stoke stealer here, but hoping to lend a little perspective from someone who's seen how this story ends...b

You have legitimate experience and perspective, but being a VC, I'm surprised to hear your tone. The most successful VC's I know, got that way because, in large part, they invested in people. Posts like this say a LOT about iggyskier. Companies like http://ycombinator.com/ exist almost solely on that premise.

I just spent two days sitting through a tech/med device vc conference listening to more than 50 companies pitch their "deals". I literally fell asleep listening to the dozens of companies wth medical devices that will "change the standard of care" and "revolutionize the way that cardiologists treat patients in a clinic setting" etc....Conversely, I popped out of my chair with excitement when management teams told stories about their 6 employee 100 sq ft. office/lab that eventually grew to their current profitable state etc...

Ideas are like assholes........
People are unique.

Thanks for the perspective. It is worthwhile to hear from people who have been in the industry and I do take everything said into account. Pretty sure you are speaking about Igneous right?

Definitely not going into this with dreams of grandeur. I know it is a tough industry and a tough road. At the same time, there are definitely small companies out there who are making it work.

In regards to having to work more than skiing, it is a job and that is what I expect. I don't need 100 day seasons. If I had good days, I would be happy with 35-40. And 35-40 is definitely more than I would be getting while in med school/residencies. And honestly, I love working with my hands and building stuff. Spending time building skis has never been something I disliked doing, even when there were week and weeks spent doing it 20+ hours a day. Hell, in school it was what I did for fun during the little bit of spare time I had. Maybe that will change, but for the time being I enjoy the work.

I know it is not something where you just say hey, I have a ski company, I get to ski all the time. I am sure at times the lack of life outside the business will be a major pain in the ass.

But at the same time, I am hardly 22 and if there is anytime to give this a shot, now is that time. I can get by on pretty little money, I have no kids or wife to worry about, and don't have to worry about losing a shot at a career in medicine because that isn't going anywhere. And choosing to give up 8+ years of my life for medicine at 25 sounds a lot better than when I am 22.

Plus, I know I can make some pretty damn good skis. I made these with a hand made press in a garage the size of my bedroom. I can only go up from here .

If what you have said is how this story ends, as it has for many companies out there, then that is how it ends. The overwhelming likelihood is that this will be the case. But if so, I will still have tons of options, still be young, and still able to pursue a career in medicine if I so choose. And I will definitely not regret giving the ski industry a shot, even if it is sadly short lived.

But unless I take a chance, whose to say. I don't expect to get handed this on a platter. Definitely seen the struggles of Igneous, Pmgear, and other small indies and have no disillusions of what lies ahead. But this stuff is currently on my mind 24/7 right now and it would drive me insane to just sit back and let the possibility slip away.

You got the right idea man...very inspiring. I did the same thing you did...started a company at 20 years old...didn't let it die (even when it should not have) and ended up in a good spot. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[PowTron]

Scott, keep doing what you are doing...

Back when Levinthal started LINE, everyone said the same thing. I remember driving for hours a day, eating ramen, etc just to go do clinics at a shop 4 hours from my house to sell 10 pair of skis and skiboards when I was repping for them.

Now, LINE may have been bought by K2, but they still run independent and now have over 100 employees.

If you have the desire, the drive, and the product (which is appears you do to all three), then you are on the right track.

Keep it up, and remember that passion is what makes this industry go 'round.

[watchyourfeet]

Those skis look sick. I love the graphics.

How much do they cost to produce, not including labor hours?


I ski at Crystal, and I'd love to demo some for you if possible.

[ski_pdx]

Great to hang out Saturday, Scott. Those skis are amazing. Thanks for bringing them to the party. Looking forward to making turns with you this year!

[300hp]

I just got my geronimos today, and all I can say is holy shit. Scott is the real deal and and I'm totally blown away. The finish on one of his first pairs of skis ever is as good as some other indy companies that have been at it for years, and I say that having owned PMs, kingswoods and a few pairs of iggys. These are more then a garage homebrew little fish creation. These are crafted. I have never been so happy to get a pair of skis or had my expectations exceeded to such a degree. Pictures to follow after I finish the bases, do a rough grind on the edges and mount these bitches. I wanted a hellbent and a steeze to screw and make beautiful babies with each other and I got exactly that.
FUCK YES
Hunter

[PowTron]

Scott, please let me know if there is any way to get my hands on a pair of Caylor's...

I pretty much hate my Mavens, and with a bad mounting position, I can understand why. But even if I move them back, it isn't going to fix the insanely SOFT flex of the Maven for my fat ass.

[iggyskier]

Scott, please let me know if there is any way to get my hands on a pair of Caylor's...

I pretty much hate my Mavens, and with a bad mounting position, I can understand why. But even if I move them back, it isn't going to fix the insanely SOFT flex of the Maven for my fat ass.

wish I could help more now. Maybe someone will decide they don't want their pair, but there were only 11 pairs of caylors made thus far....

best bet now would be to see if marshal will let you take out his super stiff 191 great scotts for a day or two. haha I can't imagine the flex would be too soft. Pretty sure that flex ended up being about 270 on the iggy scale, so they are pretty damn stiff. mine is about 250 and I suspect that will be the stiff production flex.....

But for now, not too much I can do. sorry. I should be back for a week over Christmas and maybe could let you at least demo a pair then if you can fit into my bindings (I think we can get up to about 320mm in there, max).