Crossfit Workout Thread

[neufox47]

You should try the workout where you repeatedly drop a heavy weight on your head. The quality of your posts might improve.

Dropping a large weight on the hands may be more effective.

Rippetoe wrote one of the dumber articles I've ever seen on TNation- which is saying something.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/cur...of-sc-coaching

He made a few points but advocating a power lifters workout for all athletes, saying you can get conditioned in a few weeks, the list of dumb goes on... I usually think he has pretty good ideas, not this time. If you are coming out with radical changes you better have some evidence to back that up.

[digitaldeath]

i dont look at T-nation anymore - same tired shit

check this

[CovertM]

Dropping a large weight on the hands may be more effective.

Rippetoe wrote one of the dumber articles I've ever seen on TNation- which is saying something.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/cur...of-sc-coaching

He made a few points but advocating a power lifters workout for all athletes, saying you can get conditioned in a few weeks, the list of dumb goes on... I usually think he has pretty good ideas, not this time. If you are coming out with radical changes you better have some evidence to back that up.

Because all articles from T-Nation are solely based on evidence?? Of all the writers on T-Nation, I give him more credibility than most.

I would love to hear your disagreements with his idea that stronger athletes are more powerful and therefore better at producing power within sports that require power production.

[fortysix&2]

Speaking of broscience...

[neufox47]

Because all articles from T-Nation are solely based on evidence?? Of all the writers on T-Nation, I give him more credibility than most.

I would love to hear your disagreements with his idea that stronger athletes are more powerful and therefore better at producing power within sports that require power production.

I said he made some valid points, of course developing more powerful athletes will improve them, but he advocates doing this almost solely through strength gains. Virtually every study shows that strength is only one component and speed also needs to be trained. My other issue is with all the things he thinks are useless or over emphasized. For example - Train a hockey player in the off season without performing single leg exercises or drills where they rapidly change directions laterally and you will increase their risk of getting a sports hernia.

Also, his over emphasis on the big movements will slow down athletes without other work. Heavy lifting shortens muscles and reduces joint flexibility, which is why most S&C programs concentrate a lot on movement, flexibility, patterns, etc.

An over emphasis on power lifting will cause athletes to be slower. When was the last time you heard of an athlete no longer having "it" because they weren't strong enough? How about when they lost a step and we're slower? If strength were so important that it should be the primary goal of a program, why aren't running backs, lineman, etc peaking in their early 30s, when strength peaks? While it makes a little bit of sense for some football players, would any sane person advocate a power lifting program for baseball, hockey or basketball?

Bottom line is that speed is the most important attribute in sports. Power lifting has limited ability to increase speed and can also reduce speed.

First goal of a program should be to prevent and reduce injuries.

[digitaldeath]

speed kills

squats make you faster for sure, lunges too

[XavierD]

Rippetoe is a fucking idiot and that is one of the dumber articles he has written (which is saying something) who has a few mediocre lifts for someone as invested in the sport/industry as he is. I wonder how many 4.4s he's trained? How many HS athletes that have gone on to D1 schools or the Olympics? There is a reason the college and pro athletes go to guys like DeFranco, Chad Wesley Smith, Greg Pendley, and whomever the Baseball guy is (also writes for T-nation). They aren't fucking idiots. Despite focusing more on PL/Strongman/Oly/BB they know how to train athletes. Chad Wesley Smith does a great job of preparing young guys to go to D1 ball. He will also be quick to take the DL out of their program, and limit them to 2 days a week of lifting if it is right for them.

Starting strength only works because beginners use it. These folks would likely still get stronger just by walking into a gym and watching other people lift. Same with many of the people Rip brags about coaching in this article. They don't come to him strong, so making them stronger is the easiest way to improve their athletic performance. The same can not be said for most D1 athletes. Many of the D1 players would blow his squat out of the water, and with greater depth.

I was discussing training with one of the best 8's rower's in the world, who won nationals all four years at college, and is contemplating the Olympics. Guess what they didn't do a lot of? Powerlifting. Why? Their body did not need the additional stresses in their life. Recovery is the name of the game, and there are only 7 days in a week and 24 hours in those days. It was more important for them to get their strength endurance from rowing against resistance, given that it was a specific physical preparedness, and their bodies were already in excellent general physical shape. Do you need to be strong? Yes, do you need to be skilled at your sport? Yes. It takes time and energy to develop those skills.

Sprinting, Jumping, and throws will do more for your speed than adding 20 lbs to your back squat. Is squatting important? Yes. How important? That depends on your physical preparedness.

Cliffnotes: Rippetow is an idiot and only popular because new folks use his programing.

[fortysix&2]

One more. Curls in the squat rack..oh yeah.

[rod9301]

ok, so youre talking about sprinters.
how about skiers though?

in a high speed turn you're pulling 2-2.5 g's. so if you weigh 200 lbs, thats 400 to 500 lbs, mostly on ONE leg.
sounds to me like you need a lot of strength, certainly more than you can get in crossfit classes.
leg press with a lot of plates kind of strength.

look, I like the cross fit business model: minimal equipment (ie cost), you charge a lot of money, get people committed to come regularly, etc

great exercises for general fitness, sure.
but if you want to be in great ski shape, you also need to work your legs and glutes with heavy weights, and that means machines, if you dont want to get hurt.

look at gym videos with svindal, and you will see heavy use of leg press.

[mcsquared]

in a high speed turn you're pulling 2-2.5 g's. so if you weigh 200 lbs, thats 400 to 500 lbs, mostly on ONE leg.
sounds to me like you need a lot of strength, certainly more than you can get in crossfit classes.
leg press with a lot of plates kind of strength.

Interesting, how many olympic skiers are 1000# squatters? I think either your math is off or it is more complicated than that.

great exercises for general fitness, sure.
but if you want to be in great ski shape, you also need to work your legs and glutes with heavy weights, and that means machines, if you dont want to get hurt.

I am not sure you understand what is going on in most Crossfit gyms. Heavy lifting on a regular basis is standard. And using machines will keep you from getting hurt? That is just silly.

[rod9301]

thats exactly my point. most olympic skiers couldn't squat 1000 pounds, thats why they use machines, leg presses.

[mcsquared]

thats exactly my point. most olympic skiers couldn't squat 1000 pounds, thats why they use machines, leg presses.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Yes, skiers need have strong legs. But you seem to be arguing that leg presses "with lots of plates" is more effective than squatting with a barbell.

[Tuckerman]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Yes, skiers need have strong legs. But you seem to be arguing that leg presses "with lots of plates" is more effective than squatting with a barbell.

When you are done loading it with all the plates in the gym have a friend sit on top to add some weight.

[rod9301]

I'm trying to say that you can lift a lot more weight on a leg press than by squating, and a lot safer.

I have nothing against crossfit, just saying for skiing you need stronger legs than you get with crossfit.

[mcsquared]

I'm trying to say that you can lift a lot more weight on a leg press than by squating, and a lot safer.

I have nothing against crossfit, just saying for skiing you need stronger legs than you get with crossfit.

Yea, no shit. I can bench more weight in a smith machine and run faster if I am going downhill too.

[neufox47]

I'm trying to say that you can lift a lot more weight on a leg press than by squating, and a lot safer.

I have nothing against crossfit, just saying for skiing you need stronger legs than you get with crossfit.

I don't think you really have a clue of what you are talking about. A machine is not going to make you stronger than a unsupported lift, especially for a dynamic activity like skiing. They also aren't safer, mainly because you can add so much weight and put so much strain on your knees. If you do have an injury mid leg press, it will most likely be catastrophic. The reason that you can add that much weight is that you take your back completely out of the equation, the weight is supported, and they are often at an angle, giving you a mechanical advantage. Try to ski without using your back. Also, the top world cup skiers are the only ones that are recording 2+ G's in a turn (without a compression). However, this force is always an eccentric force, when the G's reduce the skier rebounds with contraction. Most S&C coaches try to use as little resistance as possible to still make the lift challenging / require maximum effort. This will generally reduce the incidence and severity of ijuries.

IMO the best exercises to prepare for skiing are:
Rear foot elevated split squats. I've progressed these to #240 lbs for reps on one leg at a weight of 205.
Trap bar or SB deadlifts
Kettlebell swings - great for glutes and builds the muscular endurance you need in your lower back and aductors
SLDLs, hip thrusts, or some other glute dominated hinge with a heavy weight.
Single Leg Squats
Cable chop and lifts


Add in some 400M runs, and ploys and you are good to go for the most part.

[Tuckerman]

ok whats "SB deadlifts"?

[neufox47]

Straight bar, sorry for the lazy abbreviations

[snapt]

just saying for skiing you need stronger legs than you get with crossfit.

LOL.

Dynamic movements and greater ROM are much more beneficial, at least for me.

[rather ripped]

I'm trying to say that you can lift a lot more weight on a leg press than by squating, and a lot safer.

I have nothing against crossfit, just saying for skiing you need stronger legs than you get with crossfit.

Leg press machine is not safer than free weights. With good form, you can build better strength and train with better ROM. Good form requires good coaching so it's important that you have that. Dead Lifts, squats - both front and back and over-head squats all do more than just build strong legs, they build core strength too.

[Tye 1on]

IMO the best exercises to prepare for skiing are:
Rear foot elevated split squats. I've progressed these to #240 lbs for reps on one leg at a weight of 205.
Trap bar or SB deadlifts
Kettlebell swings - great for glutes and builds the muscular endurance you need in your lower back and aductors
SLDLs, hip thrusts, or some other glute dominated hinge with a heavy weight.
Single Leg Squats
Cable chop and lifts


Add in some 400M runs, and ploys and you are good to go for the most part.

those are some great ones. Tried the rear foot elevated split squats a couple weeks ago. Kicked my ass with only small Kbs.
Leg Blasters [vid] are great too. The athletes got pretty good at them so he invented the quadzilla complex. ugh.

[fool]

I was discussing training with one of the best 8's rower's in the world, who won nationals all four years at college, and is contemplating the Olympics. Guess what they didn't do a lot of? Powerlifting. Why? Their body did not need the additional stresses in their life. Recovery is the name of the game, and there are only 7 days in a week and 24 hours in those days. It was more important for them to get their strength endurance from rowing against resistance, given that it was a specific physical preparedness, and their bodies were already in excellent general physical shape. Do you need to be strong? Yes, do you need to be skilled at your sport? Yes. It takes time and energy to develop.

Great post (and timing), XD. I just had a pretty good trail running summer/season and just recently aggravated some tendinitis in my right knee. I was thinking of doing SS again for a few months - as I enjoyed it a few years ago when I did it, though it was weird for me not doing cardio - but your post made me remember that I need to concentrate on what I want to be good at, and generally that's running. I probably will build a decent base this winter with some weights, but probably not has heavy as originally thought.

I really enjoy this thread: it (generally) continues to have good discussion.

[2FUNKY]

IMO the best exercises to prepare for skiing are:
Rear foot elevated split squats. I've progressed these to #240 lbs for reps on one leg at a weight of 205. I need to see this to believe.
Trap bar or SB deadlifts
Kettlebell swings - great for glutes and builds the muscular endurance you need in your lower back and aductors
SLDLs, hip thrusts, or some other glute dominated hinge with a heavy weight.
Single Leg Squats
Cable chop and lifts


Add in some 400M runs, and ploys and you are good to go for the most part.

Great work out and pretty much mine. So are you saying you squat close to 600lbs for reps? When you say reps^, how many. 240# for a Single leg split squat( Bulgarian squat) is insane! . If you are really lifting that much, major props. I personally can only do 125# for 10 reps and squat for 10 reps 345#. 190# body weight.

[neufox47]

Great work out and pretty much mine. So are you saying you squat close to 600lbs for reps? When you say reps^, how many. 240# for a Single leg split squat( Bulgarian squat) is insane! . If you are really lifting that much, major props. I personally can only do 125# for 10 reps and squat for 10 reps 345#. 190# body weight.

My personal best is 4x240 with 100lb dumbbells and two 20lb vests. Which is easier than using a bar in a front squat hold. I've seen a bunch of guys do significantly more.

I haven't done a back squat in years, doubt I'd come close to 600. Recently did 465 for 4 reps of a trap bar deadlifts and that was really hard, but not as much ROM as a squat.

[digitaldeath]

Somebody please explain the ways in which speed is lost when doing certain power moves. The bar speed shit and whatnot . How can I avoid losing speed? I am concerned