Thread: Another which pow ski thread... Thx!

OK, so I'm down to a few skis for my pow ski,

Prior doughboy being one of them.
Prior Overlord,
PM gear lhasa pow,
the 4front ehp,
line sir francis bacon.


The overlord seems to be pretty similiar to the pm gear new lhasa pow and I think those are in the lead. it has some normal sidecut and camber under foot, w/ a bit of rocker in the tip and tail.


Between these, any thoughts? I'm a good skier. 6ft, 165 finese skier. I ski like the 20 yr ski instructor I am, which I know plenty here might not see as a good thing, but I ski pretty well, but conservative. I like low impact, flowy skiing and tend to ski at moderate speeds in a mixture of turn shapes. I freeski mostly Squaw Valley, so there is lots of steeps, tight lines, and often really big bumps under any pow. I take air moderately, mostly if I need to to access a line.


History in really wide skis...

I had a fisher 106, but felt it was too stiff and straight.

I had pontoon last year for some great storms. I saw why people are all over rocker, as I figured out how it worked. liked how the early rize made transitions between windpack and wind load much less technical to negotiate. But I also found after a few days that I was lacking some of the sensations I've become addicted to over the last 20 or so years. Not to mention the irritation on the run out, in the pow, i missed some things. Yep, it was easy, but i wanted a little more in the snow, back out, porpoising type action. I did really enjoy the wide tip and rocker for landings as you didn't have to worry about digging a tip and go over the bars.


OK, sorry to be so verbose. The problem w/ this type of purchase is that most of us don't have time to ski many of these new shapes, especially in the appropriate conditions.. .

Thanks for any impressions.

cheers,
Holiday

I have the Line SFB's and love them at Squaw - I was contemplating selling them but I think I'll use them for another season. They are stable, responsive and soft enough to have fun on. Def. a great Squaw ski!

Get the bacons. Awesome ski, especially for what you just described.

Thx,
maybe the rocker revolution isn't for me...
Bacons, soft wide, playful,
or
Doughboys, moderate soft, not as wide in waist, but more tip, more taper...

thx for the impressions.

cheers,
holiday

and, I forgot,

Moment Ruby, 188 140-110-130 ...
local ski, trad, but good looking shape, size, flex. not as huge a tip as doughboy, not as soft as bacon
hum?

thx,
holiday

bacon ive heard is good,
but for the ruby, you said not as soft as bacons, and if your looking for a stiffer ski get the ruby 190's instead of 188's(190's is stiffer, they didnt just make a ski 2 cm longer)

The reviews of the Bacon's have been good. Last year, I thought they seemed a little soft, but maybe they are different this year. The 182 length would be about right for you

If you didn't like the rockered tip on the Pontoon, then why would you like other rockered skis?

The Priors are not rockered as you suggest, but rather have a powder tip that has a long rise, but the ski, has lots of camber, unlike the rockered skis you list which have little or no camber, and it has a more traditional feel. The ski decambers in powder, but the camber provides some snap and the tip profile prevents catching.

The Dough Boy is like a Gotama with a wide tip and more camber. It is turny and maneuverable and the the Overlord is a bit more of a Big Mountain ski with a wider turning radius, but lots of fun too. For your size the 183 in either should be good. They both have more of that traditional style you were looking for.

Originally Posted by Wetdog

The reviews of the Bacon's have been good. Last year, I thought they seemed a little soft, but maybe they are different this year. The 182 length would be about right for you

If you didn't like the rockered tip on the Pontoon, then why would you like other rockered skis?

The Priors are not rockered as you suggest, but rather have a powder tip that has a long rise, but the ski, has lots of camber, unlike the rockered skis you list which have little or no camber, and it has a more traditional feel. The ski decambers in powder, but the camber provides some snap and the tip profile prevents catching.

The Dough Boy is like a Gotama with a wide tip and more camber. It is turny and maneuverable and the the Overlord is a bit more of a Big Mountain ski with a wider turning radius, but lots of fun too. For your size the 183 in either should be good. They both have more of that traditional style you were looking for.

Thanks for your impressions.
When you say the priors are not rockered, but have a pow tip, are you talking about the Overlord (or the doughboy).

Regarding the Pontoon, for me, it was overkill, but I did't totally rule out the early rize, early taper.

The sidecut built in to the overlord is claimed at 25m, which is still much shorter then many of these skis. Seems PM, praxis and other that are building in some shape under foot in pow skis are more in the 30 to 40 meter range. So, 25m still seems right in there for my shape preferences, compared to the 35 m stiff skis I don't usually like.

I'm leaning toward the overlord, as I think it may have some of the traits I liked in the early rize, while still having some shape and camber under foot. That seems to be the result that PM came up w/ as well, although I'm guessing quite a bit stiffer w/ less shape under foot based on PM's previous design leanings. (or maybe i'll just get both priors

Thanks again,
Holiday

The Dough Boy has a very wide tip for the size of the ski, like a Gotama with a fat tip, which helps the tip ride up in powder and also gives great turn initiation. I can't remember, but I think its tip profile is fairly normal otherwise. A friend of mine has a pair and maybe it is his skiing style, but he just porpoises from turn to turn with a big grin on his face.

The overlord has a low profile, longer rise, powder tip with late taper. When the ski decambers, this long rise is accentuated, but I wouldn't refer to it as a rockered tip as in it does not look rockered when the ski is sitting on a flat surface. It has a longer turning radius than the Doghboy and is not quite as at home on groomers, but can cruise at higher speeds in powder. It is more of a traditional big mountain ski, but still maneuverable and very nice to ski.

the overlord has a pretty big tip on it - similar proportionally to the sanouk's, but it rises earlier than the sanouks. there are some specs on the site, but I compared the two in person and that is what I found. the camber was pretty damn big - around 12mm per ski, but that was a brand new ski and an early 06/07 production ski and apparently the camber has been reduced in later runs according to Prior, but they would not tell my by how much when I asked. In hand flexing - the first 1/5 of the ski was relatively soft, softer than the tip of my 06/07 gotamas, but the rest of the ski was noticeably stiffer. I never skied it though - just adding what i know. the splay was all fucked up on them though.

If I was an indy ski company based near Tahoe (ahem) I would want Wade Holiday and company on my skis.
http://www.allmountainskipros.com/ski-instructors

jesus cant anyone think for themselves these days?? why do you guys need your hand held on every ski purchase. All the skis you have listed have been reviewed countless times already, can you not read all those reviews and put it together for yourself what you want/need?

honestly cant you do anything for yourself, are you going to be getting on the internet every lift ride to ask what trail to take next run??

Originally Posted by 5B

If I was an indy ski company based near Tahoe (ahem) I would want Wade Holiday and company on my skis.
http://www.allmountainskipros.com/ski-instructors

Hear, hear. If I were Moment or PM Gear, I'd make something work.

Originally Posted by SkiED

jesus cant anyone think for themselves these days??

Calm down, Ed. This isn't a generic "which ski" thread. Holiday's style and preferences aren't the norm here. He's trying to find a funshape that suits a conventional skier. That's a different perspective.

He's also put in his time. He's not a JONG. He can outski 90+% of the people on this board. And he gives freely of his assistance when others ask questions; he's not a one-way leech.

Choose a better target.

alpinedad - actually this post isnt orignial or different than any of the other 1000s of which ski threads. His style and preferences arent the norm here??? From how he describes his skiing and where he skis thats probably 50% of the skiers on this board, hes looking for a pow ski.... youre right definitley not the norm here. and definitley hasnt been discussed a thousand times before.

The point is if you have a specific question or comment on a ski then make it, but just asking someone to hold your hand through a decision is a waste of everyones time. If you cant think for yourself its time for a new sport.

Thx for the impressions of skis.
(I didn't know "ski impression" threads were frowned upon?)

Ski Ed, thx for your wonderful commentary? I'm not looking for anyone to make a decision for me, and I definitely think for myself (too much for my own good sometimes.) i'm just looking for data. i've read the reviews I can find. it's tough to impossible to get on all these new school shapes and peoples impressions can be helpful. I like to have more data points in making my decisions. . Also, moment, PM and prior are difficult to find info on and TGR seems to the be the only place. I know the traditional ski companies leanings toward construction, flex, design, after many years of skiing most of them, but these small independents are unknowns to me.

Data is good, i don't want hand holding, thx. the only waste of time i can see is your attacking me. i have people call and email all the time w/ questions on skis and technique and I do what i can to help. i havn't skied on many of the new "funshapes" so i'm looking for more data... you see that as a bad thing. whatever

Thanks Alpinedad for vouching for my information gathering. 5B, thanks for the plug to the indies... it's tougher to impossible to find 'em to ski, but i seem drawn to them this year for some reason.

Wetdog, your impressions of the Overlord have been very helpful (and no, SkiEd, I wouldn't have had that data if I didn't ask and he wasn't nice enough to provide what he could)

Cheers,
Holiday

If you PM or get in touch with Splat, I'm sure he has at least one pair of Lhasa Pow's to demo (or maybe some protos).

I have an email out to Ron (tyroneshoelaces), who I've skied with before to check availability and see what his impressions of the Lhasa are for me. He's skied w/ me enough to be able to give me a good synopsis of how i might bond with them.

I'll wait for his reply before I try another PM gear contact.

Cheers,
Holiday

Hey holiday, I did some extensive research on the Lhasa Pows before purchasing them a couple weeks ago. Your self explained skiing style is almost exactly mine, and I was also worried about buying a ski with such little sidecut (32mturnish), but after pestering pechelmen and splat (thanks guys) I was told that they can apply a flex to the ski that creates a bite (not hook, but a . . . well, bite) in the tip, which is said to cut the turn radius in half. This sounded phenomenal to me, seeing as every other element of the ski was near perfect. So you should definately contact splat and ask about it, of course they could have just been bullshitting me to steal 989 dollars of my bank account. . . .

I dunno much about the Priors, but the Lhasa Pows and and the EHPs are going to be much stiffer than Fisher 106s. 106s/Prohetes/Porohetes (all the same) are actually rather soft skis. IMO, the SFBs are your best bet if you want stay on the soft side.

Originally Posted by alpinedad

Calm down, Ed. This isn't a generic "which ski" thread. Holiday's style and preferences aren't the norm here. He's trying to find a funshape that suits a conventional skier. That's a different perspective.

He's also put in his time. He's not a JONG. He can outski 90+% of the people on this board. And he gives freely of his assistance when others ask questions; he's not a one-way leech.

Choose a better target.

Seconded... Wade's good shit.

Wade, I'm not at the Loft anymore, but if you ever want to come out to Granite Chief I'm there almost everyday. I know what you're talking about with the whole porpoise thing. I missed that on some of the fatter skis recently. The ObSethed comes to mind... great float, pops out of turns in the deep and holds a mean edge on the firm. Drop by sometime if ya want to kick around some ideas.

-Justin

Originally Posted by TeleThor

I dunno much about the Priors, but the Lhasa Pows and and the EHPs are going to be much stiffer than Fisher 106s. 106s/Prohetes/Porohetes (all the same) are actually rather soft skis. IMO, the SFBs are your best bet if you want stay on the soft side.

TeleThor, I had the second generation, not the wood grain top sheet, but the yellow/white big stix 106 w/ the wood core (and I think a layer of metal). I know they went to a foam core after that. Was the first one soft by your comparison as well? compared to my favorite ski right now, my fisher watea 94, it was stiffer. the watea is a sweet flex.

Justin, thanks, good to hear from you. I hope Granite Chief is treating you well. The obsethed is interesting. I haven't totally ruled it out. My negatives on that one are, 1. pretty close to my watea, maybe not quite the pow specialty niche. 2. 179 is probably too short for pow specific ski, 189 too long for my tastes. 3. I really didn't like the feel of the tail shape on the seth pistol. it felt like an anchor at times (if I would have kept my seths, I would have sawed it off like Doug Coombs did).

On the Bacon, my reservation is the tail width. There is very little taper, w/ the 139mm tail, and as much as i think the flex and tip/waist is what i'm looking for, such a big tail can be hooky and irritating on some skis, especially when making pin point, billy goat turns in the steeps. Pollard skis it backward and lands backward, so having more tail makes since, but for us directional guys, having that much tail probably doesn't.

Prior overlord still in the lead. Although if they can soften up the lhasa like sloafer11 says, that one becomes very interesting.


cheers,
holiday

I had the wood core Prohetes, no foam, which are the same construction as the white/yellow 106s. I felt they were pretty soft. I've never skied Wateas, but have heard that they are significantly stiffer.

I know the Porohete (year after the Prohete) had wood in it as well. Did they have some foam as well? That's news to me.

Anyway, the point of my previous post was simply that if 106s are too stiff, then you need to look for a seriously soft ski.

Thx for the point. I have to admit, it's been 4 or so years since i had them, but i didn't get along well w/ them. your point give me another good reference reminder so thx for providing it.
cheers,
holiday

Down to 2 finalists...

I decided to cross off the totally traditional ski and keep an open mind to the new ideas,
so,
the 2 finalists,
Prior Overlord, 183

Soloman Czar, 182

Thanks again for the input I've received. My gut says the overlord may be better as it has more shape, but the stiffness and feel of the Soloman is more of known then a custom ski company who i've never touched a single ski...

Cheers,
Holiday

Originally Posted by SkiED

The point is if you have a specific question or comment on a ski then make it, but just asking someone to hold your hand through a decision is a waste of everyones time. If you cant think for yourself its time for a new sport.

FKNA, I thought at least 50% of the purpose of this board was to waste time.