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Thread: An outsider perspective...
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09-09-2008, 05:49 PM #1
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An outsider perspective...
So, this is probably a can of worms... but I'm sure a lot of non-Americans are thinking the same.
Why would any of you want another Republican president? As far as I can see, 8 years ago the dollar was at 1.6:1 with the pound, all was good - and now you're in a totally senseless war with a country that didn't even attack you, have destroyed all alliances, friendship and trust with the international community - and the rich are richer, the poor are poorer, and the western economy is slipping vs the growing might of the far east.
So, how come people are so actively supporting the guy that lost to Bush as your best choice of leader 8 years ago? Why do people want to basically carry on - with some slight improvements obviously, and I'm not going to blame GWB or his party for all of the world's woes as that's just naive, but some of the blame has to rest on their shoulders - as the last 8 years?
It's not like Mccain is actually offering anything tangibly beneficial - I mean, Obama's message of change was fine for someone who's probably not going to win their primary campaign, but he seems like a reasonable guy even now he's had to change gear and start playing the political game. The whole Palin thing boggles my mind too - no matter how great she might be, there's got to be a 50% chance she's your next President in 2 years time. As scary as another 4 years of what I've seen for the last 8 is, the idea of having someone who's been pulled out of relative obscurity running the biggest show in the West is beyond belief.
Call me a librodouche all you like, but I'm voting Conservative in the next UK elections...
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09-09-2008, 06:04 PM #2advres Guest
Originally Posted by toiletduck
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09-09-2008, 06:29 PM #3Big Balls Guest
Because it pisses Europeans off
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09-09-2008, 06:37 PM #4
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Bush isn't really a Republican anymore - just a loser.
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09-09-2008, 06:45 PM #5
who guards the guardians?
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The ability to accept campaign platforms (aka lies) from people who seem like 'regular folks' or appear like they could be a neighbor
The ability to accept campaign platforms (aka lies) about people who seem to not have anything in common with you
"Wedge Issues" (gay rights, abortion, race and gender politics, religion, Guns!)
A growing distrust of intellectuals
A genuine respect for war heroes
Disdain for social programs for the poor (welfare, et al)
Desire for social programs for mid and upper classes (mortgage bailouts, et al)
The appearance of support for lower taxes and smaller government even though this hasn't been the case for some time
Loving SUVs n trucks and not wanting to go back to the Pintos and Datsuns of the 70s
Not wanting to pay for the excesses of the last 15 years
Not wanting to conserve resources if it involves significant sacrifice
Fear of terrorism and the willingness to give up civil liberties to avoid further unrest
.... etcLast edited by bklyn; 09-09-2008 at 06:48 PM.
I'm just a simple girl trying to make my way in the universe...
I come up hard, baby but now I'm cool I didn't make it, sugar playin' by the rules
If you know your history, then you would know where you coming from, then you wouldn't have to ask me, who the heck do I think I am.
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09-09-2008, 06:49 PM #6Big Balls Guest
Republicans aren't Republicans anymore. There's tax and spend Democrats and then there's spend and spend Republicans.
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09-09-2008, 06:50 PM #7
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WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
FREE MONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
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09-10-2008, 12:14 AM #8
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Nailed it. Originally Posted by bklyn
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09-10-2008, 04:54 AM #9
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Well, that's the list of "reasons people are stupid to vote Republican." Except the respect for war heroes - I'm all for respecting them, but my Grandad fought in WW2, got torpedoed twice and has a bunch of awesome stories that make me super proud of him. Don't think he'll be the next PM though - in fact, I'd put forward that anyone who's been in an extreme war situation would make a terrible candidate due to clouded reasoning process from personal experience. Originally Posted by pisteoff
For what it's worth, I don't think Europeans mind at all that the USA is merrily destroying itself. GB is the only European country that gets effected, and we're not "proper" Euros. I doubt China minds either.
So, really - besides closed mindedness/personal greed - why are the Republican voters on here voting Republican? Don't answer if you're voting Democrat, I'm not interested in anyone that shares my point of view or just wants to bash Repubs... There're a lot of smart people in the world and they must have a reasoned explanation to what I'm missing from a non-native's point of view.
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09-10-2008, 07:53 AM #10
St. Jerry
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Not a simple answer. America, for the most part, is not the first-world country you see when you visit cities like Boston and New York City.
Some good insight in this book. A very interesting read, well worth the $9 to buy a used copy.
http://product.half.ebay.com/Deer-Hu...oQQprZ63349757
"Synopsis
Joe Bageant returns to his hometown of Winchester, Virginia, at the end of the 20th century and is outraged by how working-class Americans are duped by the Republican right, neglected by corporate America, and lost in their own misguided haze of fast food, beer, and God. Bageant writes with fondness about his roots, but also provides a savage and bitingly funny critique of how America has betrayed its blue-collar workers and how they have betrayed themselves."Last edited by St. Jerry; 09-10-2008 at 08:07 AM.
All the years combine
they melt into a dream
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09-10-2008, 08:25 AM #11
blah blah blah
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You get the government you deserve... Thomas Frank also wrote a similar appraisal worth reading, "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Originally Posted by St. Jerry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_...er_with_Kansas
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09-10-2008, 08:42 AM #12
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It just horrifies me that people with access to the internet are so totally blind to what seems to be horribly obvious. I guess god, guns and gas do set the agenda - it really shouldn't be suprising given what obviously smart people in the political process have to reduce themselves to, to pander to the voting public. I'm gonna buy that book anyway - I just finished reading Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72.
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09-10-2008, 08:54 AM #13
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Said it before and I'll say it again. Its all a charade. Obama or McCain its all the same. Politics is pretend now. Its all about economics. Decisions that have been made, are being made, and will be made are done so by folks with the most money. Large multinational corporations and the world banking industry are the ones responsible for the values of monetary currency and those affected by it. Its a rather deep and shocking rabbit hole that most won't dare to even look at much less jump into.You can go on and pretend that your vote has something to do with it but it really doesn't.
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09-10-2008, 09:01 AM #14
paddles with 1.95 arms
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I think the movie Network nailed it all... Originally Posted by AsheanMT
Especially the media and the voter...
"A local is just a dirtbag who can't get his shit together enough to travel."
- Owl Chapman
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09-10-2008, 09:03 AM #15
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While I agree in general, the specifics that people can effect are worth considering and worth your vote. Even if it's a charade, it's all we've got. It just worries me that people can not be willing to even give your rabbit hole a cursory glance - I mean, really, if your average American has suddenly decided they're voting Repub because Palin is all nice and has "small town values". In the "Obama called Sarah a pig" thread, Crud's Uncle has declared "I like Sarah". Even if you buy that anyone high enough in the political game has anything in common with you, why does that make them a person you want to lead the country?! Jesus.
Anyway, if you guys don't want Obama, I think England would be glad to have him. While you have potential change vs potential more of the same, we have "appeasement dull and mundane" vs "a little conservative dull and mundane" vs "liberal and definitely won't win". Oh, and the Monster Raving Looney and British Nazi Party.
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09-10-2008, 09:13 AM #16
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You sir, are obviously no patriot. Sensationalist & alarmist politics is the American way. Get over yourself. Originally Posted by toiletduck
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09-10-2008, 09:26 AM #17
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Luckily, I'm not American, so have no need for such self-assuring insecure nationalism Originally Posted by Mathematics
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09-10-2008, 09:53 AM #18
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Republicans pander to the bible thumpers. Bible thumpers tend to breed like rabbits, so there's lots of bible thumper votes available in America. When motivated by a cause (Sarah Palin), bible thumpers vote in droves. Bible thumpers have never been to Europe and some don't really believe it exists. As confounding as it may seem to the rest of the world, most Americans could care less what they think. Originally Posted by toiletduck
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09-10-2008, 10:39 AM #19
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So you don't think anything would be different today had Al Gore been elected in 2000? I really can't imagine that's true. Originally Posted by AsheanMT
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09-10-2008, 10:44 AM #20
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They said that about the last two elections. They were clearly wrong then. Are you really, really sure it doesn't make any difference? Originally Posted by AsheanMT
Merde De Glace
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09-10-2008, 10:47 AM #21
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A pretty good obituary, bklyn. R.I.P., United States of America
(The only thing I would add is "A manufactured distrust of the United Nations."
Originally Posted by bklyn
"Active management in bear markets tends to outperform. Unfortunately, investors are not as elated with relative returns when they are negative. But it does support the argument that active management adds value." -- independent fund analyst Peter Loach
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09-10-2008, 10:48 AM #22
No I'm not an Australian
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No one has even come close to being able to explain this to me. Originally Posted by toiletduck
It's surprising that the Obama campaign haven't been using it. Yet? Originally Posted by Downbound Train
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09-10-2008, 10:55 AM #23
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Seem's you actually answered your own question here, and have a quite good understanding of the issue. Originally Posted by toiletduck
If some of the best times of my life were skiing the UP in -40 wind chill with nothing but jeans, cotton long johns and a wine flask to keep warm while sleeping in the back of my dad's van... does that make me old school?
"REHAB SAVAGE, REHAB!!!"
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09-10-2008, 10:59 AM #24
No I'm not an Australian
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Even if his vapid conspiracy theory were true there seems like a lot of stuff that this Carlyleish Group leave to the politicians we do elect and there's a significant disparity between their stances that should be more than enough to decide. Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
Just crayoning in a sardonic third candidate or splitting the support of a less disliked one doesn't seem so very smart to me, it certainly isn't going to achieve anything. Originally Posted by Downbound Train
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09-10-2008, 11:01 AM #25
Bugs
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I don't think it's that surprising. To do so, you'd be more or less telling those who supported Bush in 2000 that they were stupid for doing so. Originally Posted by PNWbrit
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