Obama's Experience

**The AD** · 09-03-2008, 08:35 AM

Should it really be an issue? If it is, exactly how much experience does he need before he should be President? Another four years? Another eight?

In my opinion the experience thing is merely Republican spin doctoring. Their candidate is an old guy who has been in D.C. forever so you work that in your favor by saying the other guy doesn't have the experience needed to be President. But, despite the fact McCain has been in the Senate for twenty years, has he held a major leadership role in the Senate? Oh yeah, he hasn't because he's such a maverick. Neither Obama nor McCain has any executive experience, so neither side can rant about that.

I think the majority of people are going to vote for McCain or Obama based on how they perceive each man's personality, ability to lead and stance on the issues. I really can't believe there are that many people who agree with Obama's positions on the issues, but think he's too "green" to be President. But, if you're one of them let me know.

**RootSkier** · 09-03-2008, 08:38 AM

This thread is guaranteed to cover some new ground.

**Tap** · 09-03-2008, 08:41 AM

Bush didn't have shit for experience...well, maybe fucking around the oval office while his Dad was there

the country will speak on Nov. 2nd. then it's done.

**jon gaper** · 09-03-2008, 08:43 AM

he ran the group which took $50,000,000 in annenberg grants and $50,000,000 in daley's taxpayers matching funds to help chicago kids get a better education in one of the worst school systems in america.

**jon turner** · 09-03-2008, 08:45 AM

From an interesting Time article published back in February:

Does Experience Matter in a President?

Experience, in other words, gets its value from the person who has it. In certain lives, a little goes a long way. Some people grow and ripen through years of government service; others spoil on the vine. At the same time, the value that voters place on résumé is constantly shifting. James A. Baker III is an authority on this. In 1980, he managed the campaign of his well-credentialed friend George H.W. Bush, under the slogan "A President we won't have to train." But the public mood was sour on Washington, and victory went to an outsider, Ronald Reagan, who had never served in Washington. Eight years later, the mood was stay the course, and Bush's experience as Vice President was his ticket to victory. Then the atmosphere turned again, and in 1992 the public demanded someone new. Baker, a former Secretary of State, still believes that a candidate with credentials should certainly tout them, but in the end, "there's no such thing as presidential experience outside of the office itself." The quality we ought to seek "is leadership."

The article notes how some experienced presidents haven't necessarily lived up to their experience (Nixon), and less experience has been successful (Reagan) as well as made mistakes (Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs).

**lemon boy** · 09-03-2008, 08:46 AM

Comparing Obama's experience to some other Presidents:
2 more years governing experience than Reagan.
5 more years governing experience than Bush.
Neither of which had any experience at the Federal level.
6 years more than Teddy Roosevelt
4 years more than Franklin D. Roosevelt
10 more years than Dwight Eisenhower
3 more years than JFK

Of course, I will grant that he does have a lot less experience than somebody like Richard Nixon.

The experience thing is IMVHO just a pink flamingo, just something that decorates the yard and some people might pay attention to them but it's the house that really matters.

What's more, with the Palin pick, McCain has signaled that this line of attack is done.

**Jim S** · 09-03-2008, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by RootSkier

This thread is guaranteed to cover some new ground.

lol! I needed that!

advres · 09-03-2008, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tap

...then it's done.

**Jim S** · 09-03-2008, 08:51 AM

I don't think it matters because they both suck. Isn't this the bottom line?

McCain is experienced and fucked up with Palin; lord knows what his next Gilligan-like move will be

Obama is promising all your wildest dreams will come true with big government

That's all

**RootSkier** · 09-03-2008, 08:54 AM

Dude, Obama isn't promising anything of the sort. At least not to me.

**CUBUCK** · 09-03-2008, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

Comparing Obama's experience to some other Presidents:
2 more years governing experience than Reagan.
5 more years governing experience than Bush.
Neither of which had any experience at the Federal level.
6 years more than Teddy Roosevelt
4 years more than Franklin D. Roosevelt
10 more years than Dwight Eisenhower
3 more years than JFK

Of course, I will grant that he does have a lot less experience than somebody like Richard Nixon.

The experience thing is IMVHO just a pink flamingo, just something that decorates the yard and some people might pay attention to them but it's the house that really matters.

What's more, with the Palin pick, McCain has signaled that this line of attack is done.

What is Obama's governing experience?

**The AD** · 09-03-2008, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Jim S

Obama is promising all your wildest dreams will come true with big government

What candidate doesn't, though? I think most of us are capable of separating the wheat from the chaff.

**lemon boy** · 09-03-2008, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by CUBUCK

What is Obama's governing experience?

You mean besides his 10 years in state and federal legislatures?

I expect though that you're simply deliberately misusing my terminology which was not intended to imply anything about govenorship, rather the generic participation in government.

**Rubicon** · 09-03-2008, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

You mean besides his 10 years in state and federal legislatures?

Words mean things.

Senators don't govern.

**The AD** · 09-03-2008, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Words mean things.

Govern 1 a: to exercise continuous sovereign authority over; especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy

Senators don't govern.

By this definition I'd argue they do. They control and direct the making and administration of policy, certainly.

**mr_gyptian** · 09-03-2008, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

Comparing Obama's experience to some other Presidents:
2 more years governing experience than Reagan.
5 more years governing experience than Bush.
Neither of which had any experience at the Federal level.
6 years more than Teddy Roosevelt
4 years more than Franklin D. Roosevelt
10 more years than Dwight Eisenhower
3 more years than JFK

Of course, I will grant that he does have a lot less experience than somebody like Richard Nixon.

The experience thing is IMVHO just a pink flamingo, just something that decorates the yard and some people might pay attention to them but it's the house that really matters.

What's more, with the Palin pick, McCain has signaled that this line of attack is done.

could you even type that with a straight face?

are you really comparing being a community organizer, state legislator, and senator to governing California, Texas, or New York. Or running the European theater in WW II?

I can't even tell if you are drinking Kool Aid or smoking crack at this point.

Unfortunately this is my biggest problem with both of the candidates. Experience in the Senate as it applies to being an commander in chief doesn't really translate. Kinda like being the funniest clown in the circus, you're still a fucking clown.

**Rubicon** · 09-03-2008, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Words mean things.

Originally Posted by The AD

Govern 1 a: to exercise continuous sovereign authority over; especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy

sov·er·eign: one that exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere

Senators share power.

Senators don't govern.

**The AD** · 09-03-2008, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Rubicon

sov·er·eign: one that exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere.

OK, if you have a problem with the word sovereign how about definition 1b for "govern:"

b: to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy

Do you agree Senators govern under that broader definition?

**Cono Este** · 09-03-2008, 09:32 AM

CHANGE = Trust me I don't fucking know right now so ask me when I get there.

**lemon boy** · 09-03-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

could you even type that with a straight face?

are you really comparing being a community organizer, state legislator, and senator to governing California, Texas, or New York. Or running the European theater in WW II?

I can't even tell if you are drinking Kool Aid or smoking crack at this point.

Unfortunately this is my biggest problem with both of the candidates. Experience in the Senate as it applies to being an commander in chief doesn't really translate. Kinda like being the funniest clown in the circus, you're still a fucking clown.

Indeed I can and did.

You may recall if you read any of my post that I do not believe the experience argument to be particularily meritorious on its own. My examples are intended to be superficial, the experience argument is itself extremely superficial.

But to answer your question:
Yes, 10 years in state and federal legislatures is something I do consider to be valuable experience governing (or in government for the clueless would be wordsmiths) easily on par with the governors [the title not the act of

]

But if we're talking the value of a person's life experience then one could argue that Obama comes out middle of the road against the above list: better than some (GWB) and worse than others (Ike).

But again, the experience argument is not a real one IMO, it is all about one of two things: a) scoring points in lame internets debates or b) swaying those voters that don't have particularily strong political views.

As for your biggest problem with either candidate by that measure, you're then definitionally going to be fuct always - there is quite literally nothing that can prepare one for the experience of being POTUS except for being the POTUS and even after 8 years some (GWB) continue to show a dramatic flair for being bad at the job. All we can do is guess at whether the person has some completely unknowable "it" to be good at the job.

Rubicon- you continue to be a fail. Try to keep up: I wasn't using the word to be cheeky and I don't give a shit if you substitute the words in government for governing the effect is the same.

**Rubicon** · 09-03-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by The AD

OK, if you have a problem with the word sovereign how about definition 1b for "govern:"

b: to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy

Do you agree Senators govern under that broader definition?

LOL! Sure, choose an alternative definition and I will agree that senators govern.

The problem with having no executive experience is that decision making is a skill that has to be learned by doing it. Working within a group is not the same as being the sole decision maker. There is a diffused responsibility associated with being a member of a decision making body that isn't there when it is all on you.

**Buster Highmen** · 09-03-2008, 09:45 AM

CHANGE = Depart from the current administration's aberration of GOP principles, fucked economy, unbalanced foreign policy, disrespect for privacy and cocksucking of the super wealthy.

**The AD** · 09-03-2008, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Rubicon

The problem with having no executive experience is that decision making is a skill that has to be learned by doing it. Working within a group is not the same as being the sole decision maker. There is a diffused responsibility associated with being a member of a decision making body that isn't there when it is all on you.

I agree and that's why former governors have fared so well in Presidential elections. In this particular election neither candidate has that experience, though, so I agree with lemon boy that we need to look for that unknowable "it." You have to look at the two candidates and decide which one you think would make a better leader. In my opinion both men are capable as leaders, but Obama is much more closely aligned with my views on the issues.

**Rubicon** · 09-03-2008, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

I don't give a shit if you substitute the words in government for governing the effect is the same.

But that is critical to the discussion of why experience is important. If it's all the same to you then you likely don't have any executive experience, so you don't understand why it is important. Or maybe you don't really care about the OP's question and are just playing the political hack in this thread. Either way, not really anywhere to go after that.

**lemon boy** · 09-03-2008, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Rubicon

But that is critical to the discussion of why experience is important. If it's all the same to you then you likely don't have any executive experience, so you don't understand why it is important. Or maybe you don't really care about the OP's question and are just playing the political hack in this thread. Either way, not really anywhere to go after that.

Yawn.

you continue to attempt to phrase my argument as something it is not which is why you continue to fail.

edit:
Along that vein- Please read my posts again and give credit to the words that I have used, in the manner that I have used them and with the clear meaning that I have intended them to be used with. While it is true that words have meanings, you also must give credit to how the words are used and intended. I know this is a radical departure for you as you've shown a clear tendency to not be able (or willing) to do so but give it a try, you might find it refreshing to understand someone's point of view as it was intended rather than how you've chosen to misinterpret that point.

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